The Abortion Debate

[JANUX 99]

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

Moniquill

gothicqueen256

i dont care what anyone thinks i think its wrong ur killing ur own flesh and blood i think it should be illegal

Does that mean that it's wrong of me to use tampons? because I sure am facilitating the dath my my own blood and even some flesh by absorbing it and flushing it before it's dead.

Which really takes meaning out of the coined term "My own Flesh and Blood" when men say such in regards to DNA specific resemblance to themselves or the old thinking of logic behind pro-creation. confused

Indeed it does.
Because it's an illogical and innacurate statement.

Illogical, no. Scientific, no. Innacurate.. yes.

The logic is behind the principle as opposed to it's literal meaning. When it was coined as a general term used for family, especially children, people knew that individuality alone dictates that the statement is just an expression and shouldn't be evaluated so logically if you want to understand it for what it is.
To some degree.. It's true to some technicalities. Simply making it inaccurate as opposed to completely false.

[Fran Salaska]

DiGital Lucifer

Rinaqa

DiGital Lucifer

Rinaqa

Actually, the pro-lifers bring it upon themselves. They claim that the person was irresponsible for getting pregnant, and then say they should have the greatest responsibility. How responsible is it to make a supposedly irresponsible person keep the greatest responsibility of all?

It's an argument against pro-lifers based on THEIR arguments, not ours.

I guess that depends on if you're insinuating that an irresponsiblity with sexuality is the greatest irresponsibility because pro-creation is the biggest responsibility thus it's illogical to have someone who failed in the begining to fail even more.
At least that's the only logical way that there is truly a punishment because it is less humane, less ethical and/or illogical to go the hard route.
But I haven't seen the ideal of Pro-Life being Pro-Punishment being logical in itself simply because you have to also assume that abortion is the best alternative to even Adoption, foster care or being under the care of a select family through private organizations. If you want abortion to truly be a responsible alternative to irresponsibility.

Even YOU admitted that the adoption system was seriously screwed up. Some people don't want to add to that. If a private family contacted me, happy to pay for my pregnancy and take my child away, that's fine. But then you have to remember - your body knows you've had a child. As far as its concerned, you should still have your baby. How traumatic is an abortion? Probably not nearly as traumatic as an adoption. So abortion is better from the long-term point of view as well. If you have a child, even if you didn't want it, how easy would it be to give it up? Imagine the family, if you just put it into fostering. It's been raised by them, and sixteen years down the line you think oh hey I want to know my child, and you go disrupt their life.

That's entirely subjective. It could go either way. By no means is a good supporting argument against the Adoption system as opposed to it's current status. It makes more of a point that we're becoming less effecient at handling those kinds of situations. Which is not a Pro-Life problem.. It's a misshandling problem with the people doing the work to try to keep such a thing from happening.
But there's an even deeper point here because it's being used as an argument; and that's that adoption is not the only system and certainly isn't the only system with problems. Which is the reason for the rise of some private organizations that handle parts of an adoption because the government seems to give a s**t. I'm sure they have their problems and they don't cure the traumatic experiences that can follow just from contact from biological parents as well as knowledge of abandonment. But they are no more at risk as anyone else in this world. It's frivilous to try to debate viability of life because of suffering. Life is suffering.

I see no problems with abortion, apart from religious reasons. Do tell.

[JANUX 99]

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

It's frivilous to try to debate viability of life because of suffering. Life is suffering.

Which, depending upon your personal philosophy, could be a valid argument to refusing to bring new consciousnesses into it. If life is suffering, why subject others to the condition?

Indeed. Which is a fallback of good measure if you're trying to be humane. Nothing wrong with that.
But it doesn't mean that life is not valid existance of itself. Suffering or not. Surely you could show a great deal of love through suffering. Which in the end can have much more meaning.

It's all subjective. No matter what logic comes of what decision. Which is insanity. 'Logical' Insanity.

[Fran Salaska]

MipsyKitten

Rinaqa

I didn't mean that it went by the regular days of the year, it'd be silly if fetii were only ever conceived on January 1st and followed exactly those nine months. I was just pointing out that her information was somewhat flawed.

It's not flawed. That's how doctors measure pregnancy. I didn't mention anything about all pregnancies starting January 1st. I'm saying that because you mentioned the fact that most months are not 28 days, that her information is some how wrong. It's not. All months have a minimum of 28 days. They go on from that. Factoring in all of the months with 30 and 31 days would be impractacle.

Is that how they measure them? I didn't know that. sweatdrop Sorry, my bad.

[JANUX 99]

Rinaqa

I see no problems with abortion, apart from religious reasons. Do tell.

I do warn now that potential means more to me than most people, but it's not my reasoning. Fairness is a respect for potential. Otherwise you can say that being impartial to the reasoning of potential is a blatant dissrespect for being fair or even humane. By thought on such an idea is that it's true if your desire is centered around subjective ideals and more possibilities. Facts somehow become a part of the extenuating circumstances catagory.
Now, this could be considered religious, but I see it as an appeal to logic instead of something subjective. But this is only obtained by keeping in mind that Abortion is an alternative; as well as a few others that we know.
But one might ask how we care or even determine if something is subjective and then say it's not as responsible. And I say that the only way to tell is to stop thinking about yourself so much and evalute the possibilities.

[Moniquill]

DiGital Lucifer

Rinaqa

I see no problems with abortion, apart from religious reasons. Do tell.

I do warn now that potential means more to me than most people, but it's not my reasoning. Fairness is a respect for potential. Otherwise you can say that being impartial to the reasoning of potential is a blatant dissrespect for being fair or even humane. By thought on such an idea is that it's true if your desire is centered around subjective ideals and more possibilities. Facts somehow become a part of the extenuating circumstances catagory.
Now, this could be considered religious, but I see it as an appeal to logic instead of something subjective. But this is only obtained by keeping in mind that Abortion is an alternative; as well as a few others that we know.
But one might ask how we care or even determine if something is subjective and then say it's not as responsible. And I say that the only way to tell is to stop thinking about yourself so much and evalute the possibilities.

But how is it logic if it's based in faith? YOU value potential. What is the logical basis for everyone else doing so? Why SHOULD we stop thinking about ourselves so much? Why are these values more logical? In my worldview is is grossly irresponsible to EXPECT or DEPEND on anyone else being responsible for you; we are all primarily responsible for ourselves and thus there's absolutely nothing wrong with attending to the self before attending to others.

[Fran Salaska]

DiGital Lucifer

Rinaqa

I see no problems with abortion, apart from religious reasons. Do tell.

I do warn now that potential means more to me than most people, but it's not my reasoning. Fairness is a respect for potential. Otherwise you can say that being impartial to the reasoning of potential is a blatant dissrespect for being fair or even humane. By thought on such an idea is that it's true if your desire is centered around subjective ideals and more possibilities. Facts somehow become a part of the extenuating circumstances catagory.
Now, this could be considered religious, but I see it as an appeal to logic instead of something subjective. But this is only obtained by keeping in mind that Abortion is an alternative; as well as a few others that we know.
But one might ask how we care or even determine if something is subjective and then say it's not as responsible. And I say that the only way to tell is to stop thinking about yourself so much and evalute the possibilities.

What about the woman's potential? Is that automatically disregarded because her FETUS has potential?

[Jenniko]

Abortion. Well, I really agree that abortions should be allowed for certain circumstances like say a women gets raped. She becomes pregnant and I believe she should have the choice to have an abortion or not. I'd think she would but, I'm sure there are a few out there who agree with me but there are people out there who believe ALL abortions are wrong but thats their own opinion and what not. I think that they should be able to choose if they want a baby or not, but then again there are always second thoughts to abortion. Say, They could keep getting abortions, and It's..not right. o_o sweatdrop Alright now I'm running out of stuff to say before I end up "insulting" confused

[JANUX 99]

Rinaqa

DiGital Lucifer

Rinaqa

I see no problems with abortion, apart from religious reasons. Do tell.

I do warn now that potential means more to me than most people, but it's not my reasoning. Fairness is a respect for potential. Otherwise you can say that being impartial to the reasoning of potential is a blatant dissrespect for being fair or even humane. By thought on such an idea is that it's true if your desire is centered around subjective ideals and more possibilities. Facts somehow become a part of the extenuating circumstances catagory.
Now, this could be considered religious, but I see it as an appeal to logic instead of something subjective. But this is only obtained by keeping in mind that Abortion is an alternative; as well as a few others that we know.
But one might ask how we care or even determine if something is subjective and then say it's not as responsible. And I say that the only way to tell is to stop thinking about yourself so much and evalute the possibilities.

What about the woman's potential? Is that automatically disregarded because her FETUS has potential?

Not at all.
But by no logic is the fetus dissregarded as well if you consider all the possibilities.

[Moniquill]

DiGital Lucifer

Not at all.
But by no logic is the fetus dissregarded as well if you consider all the possibilities.

And if you carefully consider them and come to the determination that abortion is the best and most responsible option?

[[ Loor ]]

look. all that needs to be said is......this is so stupid.........ABORTION IS MURDER SO WHAT THE ******** IS ALL YALLS PEROBLEMS U STUPID IGNORANT PPLE! IT does not mater what race religion or circumstance! it is flat out murder! u stupid stupid pple! scream gonk crying the world is ending soon. thank God! biggrin stare crying

[JANUX 99]

Moniquill

But how is it logic if it's based in faith? YOU value potential. What is the logical basis for everyone else doing so? Why SHOULD we stop thinking about ourselves so much? Why are these values more logical? In my worldview is is grossly irresponsible to EXPECT or DEPEND on anyone else being responsible for you; we are all primarily responsible for ourselves and thus there's absolutely nothing wrong with attending to the self before attending to others.

It's not based in faith. It's based in fairness. Which is being logical. It's not impossible. Just like it's not impossible for it to be impossible for some people. But by no means is one alternative the best for everyone. We know this through extenuating circumstances alone. As to how subjective that is, is different.. But regardless of such, it's proof that logic can be the basis and not just faith.
I don't imply we should stop thinking about ourselves so much as much as just being selfish. Which is different considering you can be considerate of others and still have you in mind; but you don't have to be the #1 priority; especially considering if you're good at not worrying about yourself you probably don't have any reason to be.

Now dependance is different than mental instability or immaturity. It could entail both, but neither is required. Children are dependant. Sometimes adults. Over all, humans are a dependant race. Especially in such large numbers in a tight space like Earth. You could even use viability.
But regardless.. Dependance can't be a bad thing because you depend on so many things to survive, live comfortably and be free.. That complaining that dependance is wrong unless it's irresponsible laziness is just flat out hypocricy. No matter where you live or who you are.
Now.. If you think attending to the self then attending to the others is a great philosophy with business, our primary way of survival in this age, then I hope you work under someone who doesn't care. Some people include bad habbits in attending to the self.. That's most of the world.
Though attending to the self is not detrimental to the health.. It surely isn't helpful in the system that we are forced to be a part of since we're a team and there is no I and team [wow.. simple logic].
But by all means.. If you support a detrimental attitude as such that you should be first, be supportive of those who do such and screw themselves over without any concern to their future.

[pidgezero_one]

[ Loor ]

look. all that needs to be said is......this is so stupid.........ABORTION IS MURDER SO WHAT THE ******** IS ALL YALLS PEROBLEMS U STUPID IGNORANT PPLE! IT does not mater what race religion or circumstance! it is flat out murder! u stupid stupid pple! scream gonk crying the world is ending soon. thank God! biggrin stare crying

How on earth is it murder? That's just a twist on words to say that a legal action is illegal. How does that make sense?

Please, please use legal terms properly in this thread. It will make you seem less ignorant and 'stupid'.

[JANUX 99]

Moniquill

DiGital Lucifer

Not at all.
But by no logic is the fetus dissregarded as well if you consider all the possibilities.

And if you carefully consider them and come to the determination that abortion is the best and most responsible option?

Then I hope it's an extenuating circumstance and not a selfish act of self-actualized preservation. Which would constitute as subjective ideals that are the means of justification as opposed to a fair outlook on the possibilities and truly acting responsibly.

[TheHambeast521]

Abortion...another word for Pre-emptive strike?