The Abortion Debate

[My credit card number is]

inuyasha_2004_2004

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

"Pro-life." ninja

[JANUX 99]

TPauSilver

DiGital Lucifer

TPauSilver

I'd agree with this, which is why I believe there should be a kind of parenting contract you sign when concpetion is acnowledged, anyone who signs is it held legally responsible for the child after birth, if either parent declines to sign they have no responsibility. It can of course be appealed at a later date but it would provide an approximate outline. If nobody signs the kid would be taken into care.

Definetly not a bad idea.
But I must ask.. How would you enforce a broken contract?
Could you?
I mean.. Child support is court appealed most of the time, but it's common to have instances of men refusing to pay or dissapearing from the state; which doesn't a federal appeal become required to enforce in another state? Not sure on that one, correct me if I'm wrong.

You couldn't force them to pay, we can't force them to pay now, but we could conclude that a higher proportion might pay as they've agreed from the outset to pay instead of saying they won't but the courts trying to make them.

:: brain twists into a knot ::

Sorry. It's not that what you said went over my head, I'm just confused on what you're saying other than that we can't force a payment. Unless that's all you're saying? >.<

[JANUX 99]

Alexandra Trannyth

DiGital Lucifer

Alexandra Trannyth

Ah, and on THAT site it says the picture comes from abortionNO.com ...I can see how unbiased THAT site is. <_<

What's wrong with that?
You aren't biased to biased behavior are you?

Why no, but when using sources for a debate that has two differently thinking sides it is best to use neutral sources rather than ones that speak of "This is inherently Good" or "This is inherently Evil"

Well I must say.. Using such arguments are most definetly futile. Besides, you can't enlighten yourself if you stick to just that.

However.. Unless you dissagree, I say that all sources are valueable. Not one over the other [well unless they are bs'ing what they say. But that's a given].

[Mistress DragonFlame]

inuyasha_2004_2004

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

*snags* ninja Now I can use this against those pro-lifers who say that there are no pro-'lifer's that wish abortion being banned, even if both parties die in the outcome of such choices.

[katzies]

Quote:

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

you may feel different if it was you or someone you loved very much.

[Pallas Parthenos]

Benighted

inuyasha_2004_2004

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

"Pro-life." ninja

No, judging from the last statement,

"Pro-mort."

EDIT: Whoops. The irony bypassed the frontals.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

As much as I think it's a sign of irresponsibility a large percentage of the time, as most of these women are doing it simply because they "aren't ready" (which they should've thought about before they had sex with their boyfriends without a condom), it's a woman's right to do with what she wants with her body. HOWEVER, some people do argue that it isn't exactly her life, but the child's. The fact that it's "LIVING" off of her really has no bearing in my opinion, but I'm still pro-choice I suppose. As much as I think it's a huge sign of irresponsibility and immaturity, it is technically her body, and no one should be able to tell her that she can't have an abortion.

[EveningStar]

inuyasha_2004_2004

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

So if the doctors say "your child WILL die, and you will die in labor unless you abort" even though your child will die anyways, you're willing to die?

Making it clear. I would probably let myself die seeing as I am personally against abortion...

...however...you're going to force another woman to die, even if she doesn't want to, for a baby that will probably die anyways? Don't you think that she should be given the freedom to make that decision on her own?

[Alexandra Trannyth]

A Prince of Cats

As much as I think it's a sign of irresponsibility a large percentage of the time, as most of these women are doing it simply because they "aren't ready" (which they should've thought about before they had sex with their boyfriends without a condom), it's a woman's right to do with what she wants with her body. HOWEVER, some people do argue that it isn't exactly her life, but the child's. The fact that it's "LIVING" off of her really has no bearing in my opinion, but I'm still pro-choice I suppose. As much as I think it's a huge sign of irresponsibility and immaturity, it is technically her body, and no one should be able to tell her that she can't have an abortion.

...and what about those who are in committed relationships/married and used protection, but are still doing because they "aren't ready". Why is "not ready" a bad excuse in your eyes?

[Natas Ferret]

EveningStar

So if the doctors say "your child WILL die, and you will die in labor unless you abort" even though your child will die anyways, you're willing to die?

Making it clear. I would probably let myself die seeing as I am personally against abortion...

Isn't that rather a waste of your own life?
That's just ******** stupid.

[EveningStar]

Natas Ferret

EveningStar

So if the doctors say "your child WILL die, and you will die in labor unless you abort" even though your child will die anyways, you're willing to die?

Making it clear. I would probably let myself die seeing as I am personally against abortion...

Isn't that rather a waste of your own life?
That's just ******** stupid.

I am willing to die for whatever cause I believe in.

[rweghrheh]

inuyasha_2004_2004

I think that abortion is wrong in general, and should not be accepted, even if the woman and the child both die.

Now that I think it's wrong to let them both die. I don't like abortion but banning it altogether I know more death will come. Some people in live and death situations need it so they can survive, what if they'er already a mother? What would happen to the kids if you let their mother die?

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Quote:

...and what about those who are in committed relationships/married and used protection, but are still doing because they "aren't ready". Why is "not ready" a bad excuse in your eyes?

Because it's extremely immature. Sorry, sex entails pregnancy. Even with protection, it's still a possibility. If you aren't ready to accept that, you aren't ready to have sex. It's a maturity thing. "But that's not fair, I should be able to have sex if I want!" Sorry kids, life ain't fair sometimes. You have sex and "aren't ready" for a child? You aren't ready for sex either, because it SHOULD be something you consider before ever doing it. That said, like I said, I'm still pro-choice because it's a woman's body TECHNICALLY (though TEHCNICALLY, it's also the child's body and life), and she should have the right to have an abortion if she wishes.

[Alexandra Trannyth]

A Prince of Cats

Quote:

...and what about those who are in committed relationships/married and used protection, but are still doing because they "aren't ready". Why is "not ready" a bad excuse in your eyes?

Because it's extremely immature. Sorry, sex entails pregnancy. Even with protection, it's still a possibility. If you aren't ready to accept that, you aren't ready to have sex. It's a maturity thing. "But that's not fair, I should be able to have sex if I want!" Sorry kids, life ain't fair sometimes. You have sex and "aren't ready" for a child? You aren't ready for sex either, because it SHOULD be something you consider before ever doing it. That said, like I said, I'm still pro-choice because it's a woman's body TECHNICALLY (though TEHCNICALLY, it's also the child's body and life), and she should have the right to have an abortion if she wishes.

Mhm. I'm sure that those who are childfree and in committed relationships will be happy with that judgement. Or hell, childfree in general. Or those who have quite enough money for themselves and some tucked away for an emergency (including abortion) but not currently enough to take care of a child to their own standards. Personally, I find the admission that one is not ready is more mature than going into denial about the whole matter and attempting to take care of a child and then crashing and burning.

It is only realistic for a person to be ready for sex before they are ready for children in this society, since the body still matures sexually at a young age.

[DarkFire168]

My Conscience

My defence for being pro-life is found in biology and in the consitution. Please take the time to read this entire post. I spent a couple hours writting this out. I tried to make it as easy to understand as I could.


IN THE BEGINNING:

• The sperm and ovum each have 23 haploid chromosomes.
  
• When the sperm and ovum fertilize the 23 haploid chromosomes become 46.
  
• The required amount of chromosomes for a homo sapien is 46.
  
• A zygote/fetus has 46 human chromosomes.
  
• The zygote/fetus can produce its own human DNA.
  

BIOLOGY:

• A homo sapien is the scientific term for human.
  
• Humans are taxonomically classified as homo sapeins.
  
• The offspring of any taxonomically classification is the same as the host.
  
• The zygote/fetus of a B. Taurus (cow) is a B. Taurus.
  
• The zygote/fetus of a C. Lupus (dog) is a C. Lupus.
  
• The taxonomic classific classification doesn't change.
  

DICTIONARY:

• A zygote/fetus is a homo sapien like I explained in the 2 sub-catagories above.
  
• Since a zygote/fetus is a homo sapien, then the fetus is a human like I explained in Biology, the zygote/fetus is a human.
  
• The most appropriate definition of a person:
  
• Person:

  Webster

  a : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being;

  
  
• That definition explains that a person is a human.
  
• Since a zygote/fetus is a human then by definition it is a person.
  

LAW:

United States Consitution; The 14th Amendent

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

• My opening statement to this Amendment is that I believe it protects zygotes/fetus by guaranteeing every person the right to life.
  
• Here is my lingustic anaylsis:
  
• "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." - This just states that all people who have a naturalization card or were born on United States soil are citizens of this country and have to abide by the laws.
  
• " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..." - no state can make or enforce any laws that go against any citizens civil liberties.
  
• "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;" - hence how they used citizen throught the amendment but used person instead in this section. Every person on United States soil, whether citizen or not, has the right to life and due process. This is the part that protects illegal aliens from being killed on U.S. soil and makes it illegal.
  
• "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." - every person, including non-citizens, are guaranteed equal protection of the laws with due process.
  

CONCLUSION:

• Since the zygote/fetus is a person it is protected under the 14th Amendment.
  

That's a poor conclusion to come to and obviously you didn't read the 14th Amendment very well. It says a BORN or NATURALIZED person. Since a fetus is neither it is not protected under the 14th Amendment.