The Abortion Debate

[JANUX 99]

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

I myself feel that justification needs to be given; and justification has to be viable. So truly, it's very shaky for me.. Overall, I believe that the ability to abort should never be denied when it's an Emergency, and abortion shouldn't be used solely to control birth. For that makes me disgusted with irresponsible behavior [yes yes.. I know, accidents happen. But I'm still on the fence about that one].

Thanks to the first part that I snipped out.

But usually when it's an emergency, it could leave some long lasting effects. And not all women want to remain pregnant until it's an emergency. Neth made a good point about that a few pages back, I can't remember where exactly.

But abortion IS birth control, considering it controls birth. Though I do see your point on that, it's just that if someone would rather pay the large amount of money rather than spend the small amount for contraceptions, then I certainly would not trust that person to carry a pregnancy to term and be able to raise a child.

True, I don't dissagree that Abortion IS birth control, but since you know what I mean between the lines, I wont explain myself so friviliously. 3nodding

Though, your last paragraph stuck an interesting thought to me [well, to me at least]. Which is.. What should be done about those who abort due to irresponsible behavior? More or less, I'm refering to anyone who runs to the abortion clinic first chance they get, simply because they don't want to be pregnant. You know.. The people who don't have a reasonable justification [even the ones that I don't agree with like financial problems]?
Is it reasonable to say that a questionaire should be made? To me.. That seems infringing. If it were me, I'd just say ******** it and go somewhere else. But who knows.. Maybe practicality outweighs infringing feelings?

[Beatrix the catgirl]

DiGital Lucifer

True, I don't dissagree that Abortion IS birth control, but since you know what I mean between the lines, I wont explain myself so friviliously. 3nodding

Though, your last paragraph stuck an interesting thought to me [well, to me at least]. Which is.. What should be done about those who abort due to irresponsible behavior? More or less, I'm refering to anyone who runs to the abortion clinic first chance they get, simply because they don't want to be pregnant. You know.. The people who don't have a reasonable justification [even the ones that I don't agree with like financial problems]?
Is it reasonable to say that a questionaire should be made? To me.. That seems infringing. If it were me, I'd just say ******** it and go somewhere else. But who knows.. Maybe practicality outweighs infringing feelings?

I feel that any reason for not wanting a pregnancy is justification enough, so I highly disagree with a questionare asking why she wants one. It's a violation of privacy.

But since you see a lot of reasons for having an abortion as irresponsible, why do you feel that giving birth would fix all of that? You would really trust someone with a child?

And yes, I know some may put the children up for adoption, but I'm addressing to the women who would chose not to.

[Akira Kenkano]

sweet_cuty_girl

abortion is wrong, totally wrong! you can not kill a life, and it is your probleme is you had sex, you have to take the consequences with your act!

1) Provide fact and information before stating what you presume to be fact. 2) I can kill all I want. I kill everytime I wash my hands, everytime I mow the lawn, and everytime I eat meat. (Well I didn't kill the animal myself, but according to some I'm an "indirect" cause of it's death.) 3) Having sex would not be the problem at hand, it's the unborn fetus we want to abort that is the problem. 4) Call me old-fashioned, but I think it's ******** up to force someone to give birth as a form of punishment. It's not only horrible for the mother but it puts the child in a negative position as well.

[JANUX 99]

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

But if I had to make the choice myself.. I would most certainly suggest an epidermal. 3nodding
But from my understanding.. That's painful to get, and isn't allways effective enough. So really, I'm kinda stuck on that one.

What about yourself?

Epidurals are not easy to get though. There's a certain timeframe a woman has to be in to get one, she has to be around 4 to 5 cm dialated, at least that's how it was when I was in labor.

And they don't always work, like you said. They can wear off. And thanks to me deciding to get an epidural, it caused me to end up going to have an emergency c-section.

I didn't know all that, but I am certainly glad I didn't assume it wasn't possible.
Is it possible to cause birth-complications from those too though?

[Alexandra Trannyth]

sweet_cuty_girl

Talon-chan

Looks like someone didn't read the first page!

abortion is wrong, totally wrong! you can not kill a life, and it is your probleme is you had sex, you have to take the consequences with your act!

Please read the first page and try again. Obviously one CAN kill a life, and by just being a person kills multiple millions of lives every day (yay immune system!). I won't address the rest of your post until you go back and read.

[Beatrix the catgirl]

DiGital Lucifer

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

But if I had to make the choice myself.. I would most certainly suggest an epidermal. 3nodding
But from my understanding.. That's painful to get, and isn't allways effective enough. So really, I'm kinda stuck on that one.

What about yourself?

Epidurals are not easy to get though. There's a certain timeframe a woman has to be in to get one, she has to be around 4 to 5 cm dialated, at least that's how it was when I was in labor.

And they don't always work, like you said. They can wear off. And thanks to me deciding to get an epidural, it caused me to end up going to have an emergency c-section.

I didn't know all that, but I am certainly glad I didn't assume it wasn't possible.
Is it possible to cause birth-complications from those too though?

Sorry, but I feel dumb right now. Possible to have birth complication from what?

[Chrono_Mu]

I'm in the middle, if thats a bad thing, i feel taht peopel can do whatever they want, but not kill a human, but of course, my church says like crazy "A FETUS IS A HUMAN!!!" but you bring up an interstign statement, that a fetus isnt a human untill it's... "born".

[CB_Young]

DiGital Lucifer

Though, your last paragraph stuck an interesting thought to me [well, to me at least]. Which is.. What should be done about those who abort due to irresponsible behavior? More or less, I'm refering to anyone who runs to the abortion clinic first chance they get, simply because they don't want to be pregnant. You know.. The people who don't have a reasonable justification [even the ones that I don't agree with like financial problems]?
Is it reasonable to say that a questionaire should be made? To me.. That seems infringing. If it were me, I'd just say ******** it and go somewhere else. But who knows.. Maybe practicality outweighs infringing feelings?

First off such a questionare would be a pretty nasty violation of rights to privacy.

And just who would it be that decides what a good reason for an abortion is? I'm a decently healthy woman of childbearing age, having a kid wouldn't kill me. However, I know that there is no possible way that I can afford pregnancy, let alone raising a kid. Where are the lines drawn, and who is the one that gets to have all the fun pushing morality on others?

[Reinna Astarel]

Mwah, off to play Xenosaga/read Gantz/study math/enjoy the last of my break.

Bye everyone!

[JANUX 99]

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

True, I don't dissagree that Abortion IS birth control, but since you know what I mean between the lines, I wont explain myself so friviliously. 3nodding

Though, your last paragraph stuck an interesting thought to me [well, to me at least]. Which is.. What should be done about those who abort due to irresponsible behavior? More or less, I'm refering to anyone who runs to the abortion clinic first chance they get, simply because they don't want to be pregnant. You know.. The people who don't have a reasonable justification [even the ones that I don't agree with like financial problems]?
Is it reasonable to say that a questionaire should be made? To me.. That seems infringing. If it were me, I'd just say ******** it and go somewhere else. But who knows.. Maybe practicality outweighs infringing feelings?

I feel that any reason for not wanting a pregnancy is justification enough, so I highly disagree with a questionare asking why she wants one. It's a violation of privacy.

But since you see a lot of reasons for having an abortion as irresponsible, why do you feel that giving birth would fix all of that? You would really trust someone with a child?

And yes, I know some may put the children up for adoption, but I'm addressing to the women who would chose not to.

Damn girl, why you making me think so much? rofl
No problems, you're asking some important and intriguing questions.

But to answer that.. I agree with you. As I said I would feel the same way if it were me. And thus, go somewhere else untill I found a place that didn't do that [and you know there would be too; even if it wasn't legal].
I personally wonder though if privacy is more important than the choice/decision to give/get an abortion.
But my basis for this thought is about responsibility; I guess I'm thinking more or less that the questionaire is suppose to sort those who constantly get abortions from those who don't as well as from those who need one for emergencies and those who are doing it just because they suck at parenting and at handling their lives to a degree that they wouldn't have to spend money and time at the clinic.
I don't know if that matters or not, but it seems that if the questionaire was specific to something, it might be purposeful in establishing a knowledge that the government isn't here to protect you when you are irresponsible. Something I'm concerned is still happening in society in effect to the overturning of some old laws.
Now.. As for the irresponsible parent, I must say that I don't have the right to call a parent bad unless their child is suffering; malnourished, bruised and beaten by the parents, denied education and treated poorly or like a slave child.
But see.. Some instances are more obvious than others.
I personally don't think birth will fix the problems, but I certainly don't think that abortion end's it. Primarily because I think the child is not the problem.

[JANUX 99]

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

Beatrix the catgirl

DiGital Lucifer

But if I had to make the choice myself.. I would most certainly suggest an epidermal. 3nodding
But from my understanding.. That's painful to get, and isn't allways effective enough. So really, I'm kinda stuck on that one.

What about yourself?

Epidurals are not easy to get though. There's a certain timeframe a woman has to be in to get one, she has to be around 4 to 5 cm dialated, at least that's how it was when I was in labor.

And they don't always work, like you said. They can wear off. And thanks to me deciding to get an epidural, it caused me to end up going to have an emergency c-section.

I didn't know all that, but I am certainly glad I didn't assume it wasn't possible.
Is it possible to cause birth-complications from those too though?

Sorry, but I feel dumb right now. Possible to have birth complication from what?

From the shot. Or whatever they use to get it into you now-a-days.

[JANUX 99]

Rylioun Cage

DiGital Lucifer

Though, your last paragraph stuck an interesting thought to me [well, to me at least]. Which is.. What should be done about those who abort due to irresponsible behavior? More or less, I'm refering to anyone who runs to the abortion clinic first chance they get, simply because they don't want to be pregnant. You know.. The people who don't have a reasonable justification [even the ones that I don't agree with like financial problems]?
Is it reasonable to say that a questionaire should be made? To me.. That seems infringing. If it were me, I'd just say ******** it and go somewhere else. But who knows.. Maybe practicality outweighs infringing feelings?

First off such a questionare would be a pretty nasty violation of rights to privacy.

And just who would it be that decides what a good reason for an abortion is? I'm a decently healthy woman of childbearing age, having a kid wouldn't kill me. However, I know that there is no possible way that I can afford pregnancy, let alone raising a kid. Where are the lines drawn, and who is the one that gets to have all the fun pushing morality on others?

Here's what I think...
Society isn't fit to decide what the questionaire should have. Though it's fit enough to say if it's stupid or not.
I personally would suggest the questionaire be simple and quick; it doesn't have to be written down, it could be from the doctor. Everything else about it isn't something I'd comment on because I don't have an educated opinion about such specifics.

But see, I'm kinda undecided if a questionaire is practicle in any way. Personally, I don't really feel it is.. But when it comes to people who can't be responsible enough to even try [I'm referencing to people I know who love bare-back so much that they couldn't give a ******** what happens because of it unless something actually does. Which is utterly typical of people like that]. But see, I think that's why I don't agree with that proposal. I don't see how you could possibly accurate classify people in such a way. So in short, it seems like a waste of time.

[Beatrix the catgirl]

DiGital Lucifer

Damn girl, why you making me think so much? rofl
No problems, you're asking some important and intriguing questions.

I try I try. biggrin

Quote:

But to answer that.. I agree with you. As I said I would feel the same way if it were me. And thus, go somewhere else untill I found a place that didn't do that [and you know there would be too; even if it wasn't legal].

Oh yes, I know that. If abortion becomes illegal here in the US, and I need one, I'm going to Canada or somewhere else where it IS legal. Because no matter the cost of having to travel and get the abortion, having the child is much much more.

Quote:

I personally wonder though if privacy is more important than the choice/decision to give/get an abortion.

I personally don't.

Quote:

But my basis for this thought is about responsibility; I guess I'm thinking more or less that the questionaire is suppose to sort those who constantly get abortions from those who don't as well as from those who need one for emergencies and those who are doing it just because they suck at parenting and at handling their lives to a degree that they wouldn't have to spend money and time at the clinic.

But then who would decide what is a responsible reason and what is not? A woman could be going in because she feels she has a responsible reason, and finds out the doctor disagrees and denies her the abortion.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Not to mention, what would stop a woman from lying about the reason if she knew she would be questioned about it?

Quote:

I don't know if that matters or not, but it seems that if the questionaire was specific to something, it might be purposeful in establishing a knowledge that the government isn't here to protect you when you are irresponsible. Something I'm concerned is still happening in society in effect to the overturning of some old laws.

Responsibility is not universal though. What is reponsible to one is not to others.

Would it be reasonable to give out a questionare to cancer treatment patients and then deny them treatment because of the way the cancer was caused that is deemed irresponsible, such as smoking?

Quote:

Now.. As for the irresponsible parent, I must say that I don't have the right to call a parent bad unless their child is suffering; malnourished, bruised and beaten by the parents, denied education and treated poorly or like a slave child.
But see.. Some instances are more obvious than others.
I personally don't think birth will fix the problems, but I certainly don't think that abortion end's it. Primarily because I think the child is not the problem.

If birth won't fix it, then why have the woman give birth in the first place? It does ultimately make it a punishment, no matter how it is worded, since there is a problem, as you say.

[Beatrix the catgirl]

DiGital Lucifer

From the shot. Or whatever they use to get it into you now-a-days.

Ah, ok. sweatdrop Sorry about that.

But yes, many problems can arise from getting an epidural. It's basically inserted into your spine.

It causes the woman to be numb from the waist down almost. She can still kind of feel contractions, and pressure, but no pain. It makes the pushing of the actual labor quite difficult, because of the lack of pain. Some women don't know when to push because of it.

Also, the reason why it caused me to have a c-section was because it caused Rachel's heartrate to decrease, and they ended up losing it actually, so I had to be rushed in and have her taken out.

If you're interested in knowing more, you can pm me and I can try to find some sites about it.

[Zero Fail]

Alright....here's my thing....all you pro-whatever people...either side listen up

If abortions were made illegal would people still get them?
The answer to this is "yes"

Would these illegal abortions be safe?
The answer is "most likely, no"

Would people die from these illegal abortions (fetus excluded)?
The answer is "most likely people will either die, or suffer infections"

What I ask now is what is worse, safe abortions where a fetus is removed from a body, or abortions that aren't safe and two lives are taken (if you believe a fetus is a life)?