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What are your thoughts on androgynes?

Just like everyone else. 0.47746065617498 47.7% [ 1790 ]
Just want to get away with crossdressing without being a REAL TG. 0.039743931715124 4.0% [ 149 ]
What the hell? This makes no sense. 0.071218991731128 7.1% [ 267 ]
Who cares? 0.11096292344625 11.1% [ 416 ]
They're going to hell like all the other queers. 0.029874633235529 3.0% [ 112 ]
POLLWHORE GIMME MAH GOLDS! 0.15417444651907 15.4% [ 578 ]
Too long, didn't read. 0.11656441717791 11.7% [ 437 ]
Total Votes:[ 3749 ]
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Eloquent Elocutionist

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"Gender" is a social construct to stereotype mannerisms, behaviors, and qualities of things. It is not necessary to identify to a gender. People who claim to be all kinds of "genders" really need to take a new perspective.

If you have a v****a and act like your average guy, it doesn't mean your "gender" is male. It just means you act a lot like the average guy. That's totally fine in its own right. If you feel you were meant to be born in a male body, then get the re-assignment surgery when you're able to...

But what I'm trying to say is... Gender does not need to be a separate idea, it is not necessary to identify with one at all.
Yoshpet
"Gender" is a social construct to stereotype mannerisms, behaviors, and qualities of things. It is not necessary to identify to a gender. People who claim to be all kinds of "genders" really need to take a new perspective.

If you have a v****a and act like your average guy, it doesn't mean your "gender" is male. It just means you act a lot like the average guy. That's totally fine in its own right. If you feel you were meant to be born in a male body, then get the re-assignment surgery when you're able to...

But what I'm trying to say is... Gender does not need to be a separate idea, it is not necessary to identify with one at all.


I think you're confused about which concept of gender we're talking about. You seem to be referring to social gender- the roles, standards, and stereotypes.

This thread addresses psychological gender. If you have GID (Gender Identity Disorder), something in your wiring is weird, so your brain's gender doesn't jive with your body's sex; meaning, you might feel like you're missing certain organs, you might feel like you've got extras. In Tay's case, she's got extras, because her brain says "We're not supposed to have any of these reproductive thingies!" It happens sometimes. We're not completely sure of why, but it might have something to do with brain shape, hormone distribution, etc (biological gender).

And for the androgyne, SRS isn't really an option. You can't just have them take out everything- they generally have ethical qualms about that.

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Wishbone R
Yoshpet
"Gender" is a social construct to stereotype mannerisms, behaviors, and qualities of things. It is not necessary to identify to a gender. People who claim to be all kinds of "genders" really need to take a new perspective.

If you have a v****a and act like your average guy, it doesn't mean your "gender" is male. It just means you act a lot like the average guy. That's totally fine in its own right. If you feel you were meant to be born in a male body, then get the re-assignment surgery when you're able to...

But what I'm trying to say is... Gender does not need to be a separate idea, it is not necessary to identify with one at all.


I think you're confused about which concept of gender we're talking about. You seem to be referring to social gender- the roles, standards, and stereotypes.

This thread addresses psychological gender. If you have GID (Gender Identity Disorder), something in your wiring is weird, so your brain's gender doesn't jive with your body's sex; meaning, you might feel like you're missing certain organs, you might feel like you've got extras. In Tay's case, she's got extras, because her brain says "We're not supposed to have any of these reproductive thingies!" It happens sometimes. We're not completely sure of why, but it might have something to do with brain shape, hormone distribution, etc (biological gender).

And for the androgyne, SRS isn't really an option. You can't just have them take out everything- they generally have ethical qualms about that.


Well, other than not being able to rip off their apparently unnecessary bits, what's the problem? I mean, do they want people to identify them as not having genitals? Because that falls in the realm of psychological gender.

I'm male, my nipples are useless and I find them unattractive and would almost prefer they weren't there. Should I consider myself to have some sort of gender identity disorder?
Yoshpet
Wishbone R
Yoshpet
"Gender" is a social construct to stereotype mannerisms, behaviors, and qualities of things. It is not necessary to identify to a gender. People who claim to be all kinds of "genders" really need to take a new perspective.

If you have a v****a and act like your average guy, it doesn't mean your "gender" is male. It just means you act a lot like the average guy. That's totally fine in its own right. If you feel you were meant to be born in a male body, then get the re-assignment surgery when you're able to...

But what I'm trying to say is... Gender does not need to be a separate idea, it is not necessary to identify with one at all.


I think you're confused about which concept of gender we're talking about. You seem to be referring to social gender- the roles, standards, and stereotypes.

This thread addresses psychological gender. If you have GID (Gender Identity Disorder), something in your wiring is weird, so your brain's gender doesn't jive with your body's sex; meaning, you might feel like you're missing certain organs, you might feel like you've got extras. In Tay's case, she's got extras, because her brain says "We're not supposed to have any of these reproductive thingies!" It happens sometimes. We're not completely sure of why, but it might have something to do with brain shape, hormone distribution, etc (biological gender).

And for the androgyne, SRS isn't really an option. You can't just have them take out everything- they generally have ethical qualms about that.


Well, other than not being able to rip off their apparently unnecessary bits, what's the problem? I mean, do they want people to identify them as not having genitals? Because that falls in the realm of psychological gender.

I'm male, my nipples are useless and I find them unattractive and would almost prefer they weren't there. Should I consider myself to have some sort of gender identity disorder?


No. For more information, consult the clinical diagnostic criteria for GID- unfortunately, I don't know it offhand. Not liking a few things about your body is normal; dysphorias are when those normal dislikes go to debilitating extremes for one reason or another.

The problem is probably twofold- one, they're in a body that doesn't jive with their brain. That's metaphorically pretty chafing. Secondly, they'll always be referred to and addressed as male or female; while their brain is telling them that they're neither. It's the same problem MtF or FtMs have; you're walking down the street, and not only are you expected to look and behave like X, Y, and Z (gender roles), but people are addressing you by sex-specific pronouns that you don't want.

It would be sort of like if you were a Hindu but everyone assumed you were a Christian. That would get old pretty fast, and you'd have a lot of trouble being accepted and recognized for what you actually were. Assuming Hindus and Christians had separate, rigid dress codes, and you were a Hindu stuck in a Christian-Suit. So everyone assumed on sight, not upon speaking to you or interacting with you.
I have two questions, and I hope neither of them make you too uncomfortable...

First is this Owner concept... which is alien to me. I am bi, have a million and one friends who are not straight and am always the first to stand up when anyone has a problem with any of us (I'm also usually the first to get a bloody nose or a huge bruise...) and as such I do a lot of research all the time just to make sure no one can catch me off guard with an argument - but I only know one androgyne and Kai doesn't talk much and hasn't had any relationships with anyone (that I know of) since we met. So... it just hasn't come up. It also isn't something I actively research (though I really should) because it just isn't the thing I'm usually yelling about or getting beaten up over. So... I was just wondering if you could explain it more. And yes, I realize that totally wasn't phrased as a sentence.

The other is more a comment than a real question... but if the friends you've come out to don't treat you the way you'd like to be treated, are they really your friends? I totally understand the fear of coming out - I'm still closeted to my family, had a hard enough time telling them I was Pagan, I think the whole sexuality thing will be on a need to know basis - but friends should be able to accept you for who you are.

Edit: Just voted in the poll... yay for a majority towards "just like everyone else", don't see that often enough.
Wishbone R
Yoshpet
Wishbone R
Yoshpet
"Gender" is a social construct to stereotype mannerisms, behaviors, and qualities of things. It is not necessary to identify to a gender. People who claim to be all kinds of "genders" really need to take a new perspective.

If you have a v****a and act like your average guy, it doesn't mean your "gender" is male. It just means you act a lot like the average guy. That's totally fine in its own right. If you feel you were meant to be born in a male body, then get the re-assignment surgery when you're able to...

But what I'm trying to say is... Gender does not need to be a separate idea, it is not necessary to identify with one at all.


I think you're confused about which concept of gender we're talking about. You seem to be referring to social gender- the roles, standards, and stereotypes.

This thread addresses psychological gender. If you have GID (Gender Identity Disorder), something in your wiring is weird, so your brain's gender doesn't jive with your body's sex; meaning, you might feel like you're missing certain organs, you might feel like you've got extras. In Tay's case, she's got extras, because her brain says "We're not supposed to have any of these reproductive thingies!" It happens sometimes. We're not completely sure of why, but it might have something to do with brain shape, hormone distribution, etc (biological gender).

And for the androgyne, SRS isn't really an option. You can't just have them take out everything- they generally have ethical qualms about that.


Well, other than not being able to rip off their apparently unnecessary bits, what's the problem? I mean, do they want people to identify them as not having genitals? Because that falls in the realm of psychological gender.

I'm male, my nipples are useless and I find them unattractive and would almost prefer they weren't there. Should I consider myself to have some sort of gender identity disorder?


No. For more information, consult the clinical diagnostic criteria for GID- unfortunately, I don't know it offhand. Not liking a few things about your body is normal; dysphorias are when those normal dislikes go to debilitating extremes for one reason or another.

The problem is probably twofold- one, they're in a body that doesn't jive with their brain. That's metaphorically pretty chafing. Secondly, they'll always be referred to and addressed as male or female; while their brain is telling them that they're neither. It's the same problem MtF or FtMs have; you're walking down the street, and not only are you expected to look and behave like X, Y, and Z (gender roles), but people are addressing you by sex-specific pronouns that you don't want.

It would be sort of like if you were a Hindu but everyone assumed you were a Christian. That would get old pretty fast, and you'd have a lot of trouble being accepted and recognized for what you actually were. Assuming Hindus and Christians had separate, rigid dress codes, and you were a Hindu stuck in a Christian-Suit. So everyone assumed on sight, not upon speaking to you or interacting with you.


Quote:
The current edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has five criteria that must be met before a diagnosis of gender identity disorder (302.85) can be given:[2]

1. There must be evidence of a strong and persistent cross-gender identification.
2. This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex.
3. There must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one's assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
4. The individual must not have a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia).
5. There must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The DSM-IV also provides a code for gender disorders that did not fall into these criteria. This diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (GIDNOS, 302.6) is similar to other "NOS" diagnoses, and can be given for, for example:[3]

1. Intersex conditions (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia) and accompanying gender dysphoria
2. Transient, stress-related cross-dressing behavior
3. Persistent preoccupation with castration or penectomy without a desire to acquire the sex characteristics of the other sex, which is known as skoptic syndrome


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
Anastasia Sky
First is this Owner concept... which is alien to me. I am bi, have a million and one friends who are not straight and am always the first to stand up when anyone has a problem with any of us (I'm also usually the first to get a bloody nose or a huge bruise...) and as such I do a lot of research all the time just to make sure no one can catch me off guard with an argument - but I only know one androgyne and Kai doesn't talk much and hasn't had any relationships with anyone (that I know of) since we met. So... it just hasn't come up. It also isn't something I actively research (though I really should) because it just isn't the thing I'm usually yelling about or getting beaten up over. So... I was just wondering if you could explain it more. And yes, I realize that totally wasn't phrased as a sentence.


The owner thing is in refrance to BDSM, try looking it up from there.
u need mental help bad scream
Anastasia Sky


I have two questions, and I hope neither of them make you too uncomfortable...

First is this Owner concept... which is alien to me.


At the time of this writing, Tay was involved in a Dominant/submissive relationship. (How to explain this...?) Tay gave Tayself to the person Tay refers to as Tay's Owner.
error[dot]exe
Isadorana
shishikogan
Isadorana
This is a very interesting post, a large percentage of my friends identify with a "third" gender, and I must admit, I identify with both, sometimes I feel female, and sometimes male... It's a little odd, and most of my friends can tell when I feel like each corresponding gender... Although, I have to say I am curious as to what that makes me... am I an androgyne? I do appear completely androgynous, but most people say I appear to be a female, but I don't know...


i'm the same actually. i feel like i'm both male and female. i do tend to associate myself more with females, but i think that's because i'm physically female so that's how i was socially brought up. but sometimes i feel myself feeling particularly male. my best friend can tell when i'm more male than female, he says i actually give off a different smell even. O.O

yours truly

shishikogan


...that's a little disturbing (mostly because he's sniffing you...) my friends never smell me, so I don't know if my scent changes... But I have to admit, that brings up a whole array of questions, most prominent of which is, "does that mean that it truly is genetic?" and if so, can we pass it on to our children?

There's a lot of things about biology that can change how one smells. It doesn't have to be genetic. Supposedly, when people start taking hormone replacement therapy, their scent changes. This suggests it has something to do with hormone levels. I don't know if there's any other factors, but I doubt scent would point to a genetic cause.


i think it has something to do with horemone fluxes ya. i assume i smell different because i'm giving off more testosterone than usuall. which is interesting. that deffinately must be a psychological thing. O.O

yours truly

shishikogan
thats not good

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