No reasonable expectation of privacy in public places

[Goldgato]

Under US law, citizens cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy in public places except for places specifically constructed to provide privacy (such as a public bathroom). Garbage left in public places for collection has no reasonable expectation of privacy, for example. Anything in a public places that can be experienced with any of the five senses has no reasonable expectation of privacy. There are numerous other examples under US law that could be cited.

So, why do people think they have a reasonable expectation of privacy when online, which is a public place? The Internet, though it is non-physical, is public. There can be areas of the Internet which are constructed with privacy in mind and those should be left private, but most of the Internet can be considered a public place. So how can there be a reasonable expectation of privacy online?

[Ranallo Jenner]

The only things online that I would consider to truly be public domain are government websites. So when I go to gaiaonline it's pretty much like I'm going over to a neighbors house, since I don't think that the government owns gaiaonline. Or it's like making a phone call from your house to another house.

[Goldgato]

Ranallo Jenner

The only things online that I would consider to truly be public domain are government websites. So when I go to gaiaonline it's pretty much like I'm going over to a neighbors house, since I don't think that the government owns gaiaonline. Or it's like making a phone call from your house to another house.

Actually it's more like going to any place created for public use. If you go out to a restaurant you're free to be there, but it's a public place; it's a place that is open for public access in the same way Gaia is. Gaia isn't private; anyone can be here, and you don't even need an account to read the forum. There can't be any more of a reasonable expectation here where everyone can see what you post that there can be walking down the street where everyone can see what you do.

[Ranallo Jenner]

Goldgato

Ranallo Jenner

The only things online that I would consider to truly be public domain are government websites. So when I go to gaiaonline it's pretty much like I'm going over to a neighbors house, since I don't think that the government owns gaiaonline. Or it's like making a phone call from your house to another house.

Actually it's more like going to any place created for public use. If you go out to a restaurant you're free to be there, but it's a public place; it's a place that is open for public access in the same way Gaia is. Gaia isn't private; anyone can be here, and you don't even need an account to read the forum. There can't be any more of a reasonable expectation here where everyone can see what you post that there can be walking down the street where everyone can see what you do.

I think I misunderstood your meaning when you were talking about privacy. I thought you meant things involving the patriot act or wire-tapping, things related to the government.

But yeah, I agree. Being online is like going into a restaurant. Or it might be like take-out if you're at home using a PC since you aren't at the physical location of the servers that house the internet.

[Yoshpet]

What exactly do you mean by a reasonable expectation of privacy?

[Goldgato]

Yoshpet

What exactly do you mean by a reasonable expectation of privacy?

It refers to an expectation of privacy that is generally recognized by society. Society recognizes that you have an expectation of privacy when you go into a bathroom stall, but not when you go out into a public place, for example. Or when you post on Gaia you can't have a reasonable expectation of privacy because it's a public space on the Internet. Generally anything in a public space that can be readily experienced with any of the five senses doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, so what you do inside of your car might be protected but not an order coming from it.

[Yoshpet]

Goldgato

It refers to an expectation of privacy that is generally recognized by society. Society recognizes that you have an expectation of privacy when you go into a bathroom stall, but not when you go out into a public place, for example. Or when you post on Gaia you can't have a reasonable expectation of privacy because it's a public space on the Internet. Generally anything in a public space that can be readily experienced with any of the five senses doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, so what you do inside of your car might be protected but not an order coming from it.

Oh, I see. Are you suggesting then, that we as a society expect our interactions on free-to-join internet forums to be private and you disagree with the rationality of that?

I really don't know what American society thinks of internet privacy, but I would imagine the expectations would vary based on the individual and their awareness of website functionality. I'm sure there are plenty of GaiaOnline users who don't even realize the forum can be read when not signed in.

[Goldgato]

Yoshpet

Goldgato

It refers to an expectation of privacy that is generally recognized by society. Society recognizes that you have an expectation of privacy when you go into a bathroom stall, but not when you go out into a public place, for example. Or when you post on Gaia you can't have a reasonable expectation of privacy because it's a public space on the Internet. Generally anything in a public space that can be readily experienced with any of the five senses doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, so what you do inside of your car might be protected but not an order coming from it.

Oh, I see. Are you suggesting then, that we as a society expect our interactions on free-to-join internet forums to be private and you disagree with the rationality of that?

I really don't know what American society thinks of internet privacy, but I would imagine the expectations would vary based on the individual and their awareness of website functionality. I'm sure there are plenty of GaiaOnline users who don't even realize the forum can be read when not signed in.

Basically yes. I've seen enough people complaining about sites like Facebook or 4chan cooperating with authorities to know it's not an uncommon opinion.

[Habuki Arcana Kuragari]

Privacy in the restroom? You're still in a public place. If you want to stretch the terms to suit your own terms then I can see where you're coming from. Just because you deem a restaurant to be "public" doesn't mean it is so. You walk into a restaurant, bar, diner, stadium, outhouse, ship, casino, etc. and you basically wall yourself off from the "public" eyes. You're not allowed to walk into a stadium during a football game. You pay admission. It's not public.

[Yoshpet]

Habuki Arcana Kuragari

Privacy in the restroom? You're still in a public place. If you want to stretch the terms to suit your own terms then I can see where you're coming from. Just because you deem a restaurant to be "public" doesn't mean it is so. You walk into a restaurant, bar, diner, stadium, outhouse, ship, casino, etc. and you basically wall yourself off from the "public" eyes. You're not allowed to walk into a stadium during a football game. You pay admission. It's not public.

Public restrooms exist. They're not exclusive to private businesses. The difference between public property and private property isn't the type of "privacy" the OP is talking about anyway.

[klebold2]

So it's not considered stalking when I read your post history?

[Avgvsto]

Because it's easier here.

[Shark Bacon]

You're right. You shouldn't post anything online that you're not comfortable who the entire world seeing. Because it is public, and anyone, anywhere, can see it.

[The Herald of Death]

Goldgato

So, why do people think they have a reasonable expectation of privacy when online, which is a public place? The Internet, though it is non-physical, is public. There can be areas of the Internet which are constructed with privacy in mind and those should be left private, but most of the Internet can be considered a public place. So how can there be a reasonable expectation of privacy online?

But what sort of privacy are you arguing against?

[Goldgato]

klebold

So it's not considered stalking when I read your post history?

It might be if used for a purpose that makes me feel threatened or intimidated. But my post history is publicly accessible and it's not an invasion of a reasonable expectation of privacy to access it.

The Herald of Death

Goldgato

So, why do people think they have a reasonable expectation of privacy when online, which is a public place? The Internet, though it is non-physical, is public. There can be areas of the Internet which are constructed with privacy in mind and those should be left private, but most of the Internet can be considered a public place. So how can there be a reasonable expectation of privacy online?

But what sort of privacy are you arguing against?

I'm not arguing against any sort of privacy; rather, I'm arguing that no privacy exists regarding content posted where it can be accessed publicly.