CORRECTION: JOE WILSON gets BOOED FOR YELLING "You Lie!"

Obama and healthcare reform:

He is telling the truth, trust him.	18.1%	[ 19 ]
He is a politician; be somewhat skeptical.	50.5%	[ 53 ]
Healthcare is not in the cards.	4.8%	[ 5 ]
We need to get our facts straight.	26.7%	[ 28 ]
Total Votes:			[ 105 ]

[Vryko Lakas]

HelloNoora

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic.

No, it's not "everyone." There would be subsidies available to many and also exemptions' I'm pretty sure people who are covered under Medicaid, Medicare, the Veteran's Health Administration, or the like won't need to buy their own private insurance. I remember hearing that people under the poverty line would be exempt from fines. In the end it's not so different from the requirement in my state that all people who drive cars purchase a minimum level of insurance for that. Finally, much of the cost of the uninsured falls squarely on the shoulders of the insured, so by increasing the number of the insured there may be less opportunities for hospitals to fleece the insured to cover emergency room care, for example.
Of course we could probably do away with this requirement as well as the patchwork, gappy network of state/federal coverage plans if we all had the option of public insurance, but certain people are dead set against this idea even though it's measurably better than our current system, so there you go.

[HelloNoora]

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

Obama through the public option out the window. He said everyone would be required to buy healthcare insurance. Those who were poor would get help.

[In Medias Res IV]

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

[magicskittles08]

HelloNoora

magicskittles08

HelloNoora

magicskittles08

HelloNoora

Quote:

Plain most definitely implied that, but using the words implied sounds like mudslinging in a speech. The obvious result of lowered health care for the elderly is allowing the elderly to die. I wouldn't call that a fib, just a simple continuation of logic. It's not like millions of Americans didn't do the same. And since that leap was made, it had to be addressed.

I don't know what millions of Americans were thinking. I was pretty sure she meant that giving doctors billable hours for end of life counseling was pretty eerie. Also, because of my work in hospice, I know that that end of life care is a concern when it seems like some elderly people are being greedy with their choices.

I believe it was put in there because many people don't talk about or plan end of life care until it is really necessary, hence why a doctor wouldn't bill for that. If you talk about it in advance with your doctor, I can see the need to bill. It's a doctor's visit, and he should be paid for his time.

What do you mean that some elderly people are greedy with their choices?

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. pirate

Erm, now I'm more confused >.<

I don't want to go on record as saying anything evil or opinionated against seniors. I will give you the case of an elderly woman I knew who is now deceased. She had a problem with hypochondria, not severe enough to be detected as hypochondria. She always complained about "chest pains" which were actually anxiety attacks. Her doctors would put her through all the tests and although they couldn't find anything, they considered her complaints as real giving her various diagnoses. She went to doctor after doctor over a 30 year period throughout her retirement years. She received millions of dollars worth of tests and also had a Bi-pass surgery.

Doctors are so afraid to tell a patient "no" when they come presenting symptoms because if the woman croaked from a heart attack then they could get sued. So they err on the side of over-testing and over-treating.

But the alternative to that was to not treat her or look for her potential problems. I personally believe that it was a case of misdiagnosis on the part of a doctor. I would also personally prefer that they err on the side of caution when my health or life is at stake. Thirty years of testing is obviously excessive, but it's better than no testing at all.

[HelloNoora]

Vryko Lakas

HelloNoora

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic.

No, it's not "everyone." There would be subsidies available to many and also exemptions' I'm pretty sure people who are covered under Medicaid, Medicare, the Veteran's Health Administration, or the like won't need to buy their own private insurance. I remember hearing that people under the poverty line would be exempt from fines. In the end it's not so different from the requirement in my state that all people who drive cars purchase a minimum level of insurance for that. Finally, much of the cost of the uninsured falls squarely on the shoulders of the insured, so by increasing the number of the insured there may be less opportunities for hospitals to fleece the insured to cover emergency room care, for example.
Of course we could probably do away with this requirement as well as the patchwork, gappy network of state/federal coverage plans if we all had the option of public insurance, but certain people are dead set against this idea even though it's measurably better than our current system, so there you go.

Yes, those who are already on Medicaid would not be affected, he assured us. Those who need help will be given help, but yes everyone must pull their weight, he said, in order for this plan to work.

[HelloNoora]

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

It is not the salaries but the insurance premiums for malpractice insurance that is killing us.

[In Medias Res IV]

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

It is not the salaries but the insurance premiums for malpractice insurance that is killing us.

That's illegal here as far as I know. I think my insurance is around 200$ a year, included in my tuition, and covers medical and dental.

[HelloNoora]

magicskittles08

HelloNoora

magicskittles08

HelloNoora

magicskittles08

I believe it was put in there because many people don't talk about or plan end of life care until it is really necessary, hence why a doctor wouldn't bill for that. If you talk about it in advance with your doctor, I can see the need to bill. It's a doctor's visit, and he should be paid for his time.

What do you mean that some elderly people are greedy with their choices?

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. pirate

Erm, now I'm more confused >.<

I don't want to go on record as saying anything evil or opinionated against seniors. I will give you the case of an elderly woman I knew who is now deceased. She had a problem with hypochondria, not severe enough to be detected as hypochondria. She always complained about "chest pains" which were actually anxiety attacks. Her doctors would put her through all the tests and although they couldn't find anything, they considered her complaints as real giving her various diagnoses. She went to doctor after doctor over a 30 year period throughout her retirement years. She received millions of dollars worth of tests and also had a Bi-pass surgery.

Doctors are so afraid to tell a patient "no" when they come presenting symptoms because if the woman croaked from a heart attack then they could get sued. So they err on the side of over-testing and over-treating.

But the alternative to that was to not treat her or look for her potential problems. I personally believe that it was a case of misdiagnosis on the part of a doctor. I would also personally prefer that they err on the side of caution when my health or life is at stake. Thirty years of testing is obviously excessive, but it's better than no testing at all.

If there were panels to review such situations, the she would have been cut off from her doctoring jones. She would be an example of someone who abused the system and needed to be stopped. However, the worry is that someone who is 90 and needs hip replacement surgery would be denied it because of age.

The idea of us living to older and older ages would only be compatible with a high level of functioning and glowing health. A person who never abused the system but who does not have an advocate could get lost in the bureaucratic shuffle.

[irishcandie]

of course...ughh...i never wanted obama for president...i dont like him at all...it was only a matter of time before we caught him in a lie

[Boudica Celtic Queen]

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

The problem that many of us have with our tax dollars going towards healthcare for illegal immigrants if the fact that they're ILLEGALS. We have had several amnesty plans in which they could become legal, but the fact is, many don't want that. They send the money back home and make limited contributions to our economy. Don't want to sound cruel, but it irks me that they manage to get better care while we have citizens who go without. Being here illegally means they're breaking the law. That's why people are irked about their taxes paying for illegals' healthcare.

[Vryko Lakas]

In Medias Res IV

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

I had some sort of infection over the summer that I wanted to get looked at (my dog had Staph at the time and I was worried I might have contracted it), but I don't have health insurance. I went through the phone book and only one clinic in town would see me, but they demanded $95 up front.


Also, re: malpractice: The costs of malpractice are about 1-2% of the cost of healthcare nationally. Malpractice isn't as big a factor as people make it seem to be.

[In Medias Res IV]

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?

I have made a thread about this. I would like to see an American style Two-Pathway approach, Nationalized Health Plan on a dual payer system.

But before we do this, we really ought to put caps on malpractice lawsuits and make insurance companies offer national coverage, not state based coverage as they do now.

Obama's plan is also to force everyone to purchase health care insurance and I think that is going to be problematic. The reason we can force people to buy auto insurance is that it is based on the use of an automobile. If you don't drive, you don't have to be insured. So there is a choice there. If everyone is required by law to buy health care insurance, there is going to be a little dust storm. Most young people don't want to pay for that. I never had insurance except when employed and even then I never need it or used it.

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

The problem that many of us have with our tax dollars going towards healthcare for illegal immigrants if the fact that they're ILLEGALS. We have had several amnesty plans in which they could become legal, but the fact is, many don't want that. They send the money back home and make limited contributions to our economy. Don't want to sound cruel, but it irks me that they manage to get better care while we have citizens who go without. Being here illegally means they're breaking the law. That's why people are irked about their taxes paying for illegals' healthcare.

That would irk me as well.

[HelloNoora]

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

It is not the salaries but the insurance premiums for malpractice insurance that is killing us.

That's illegal here as far as I know. I think my insurance is around 200$ a year, included in my tuition, and covers medical and dental.

When we are young it is much less expensive. But I mean that the doctors themselves pay high insurance premiums because they can be sued. The lawsuits are enormous and out of proportion. Thus the doctors have to pay more and more and more to insurance malpractice coverage and pass that along to their patients or else they have to give up practicing medicine.

[Boudica Celtic Queen]

In Medias Res IV

HelloNoora

In Medias Res IV

Bouidicca

In Medias Res IV

EW! That's terrible. Here we have OHIP and it works. Sure our overall taxes are a bit more but it truly works for us and we have absolute decision over who our doctors are. Malpractise lawsuits are also.. just about non-existent.

I don't think it's as much about FORCING people to buy insurance, but giving them the option of going under national healthcare which they would be able to afford since that is supposed to come out of taxes. I'd much rather my taxes go for that then covering the uninsured.

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

Doctor salaries are capped here, so you can't get effed over like in America.

It is not the salaries but the insurance premiums for malpractice insurance that is killing us.

That's illegal here as far as I know. I think my insurance is around 200$ a year, included in my tuition, and covers medical and dental.

Wish that's all mine cost. For me and one kid, to get decent coverage, costs nearly $400/month for me. That's a big chunk of my salary.

[In Medias Res IV]

Vryko Lakas

In Medias Res IV

D: I really don't understand you Americans. If an illegal immigrant needs to see a doctor here, they're not denied. Most walk-in clinics charge 25$ if you do not have healthcare, if you cannot afford that 25$, they will not turn you away.

I had some sort of infection over the summer that I wanted to get looked at (my dog had Staph at the time and I was worried I might have contracted it), but I don't have health insurance. I went through the phone book and only one clinic in town would see me, but they demanded $95 up front.


Also, re: malpractice: The costs of malpractice are about 1-2% of the cost of healthcare nationally. Malpractice isn't as big a factor as people make it seem to be.

Oh yuck! That's disgusting!!

I'm very grateful that it costs me nothing to see my doctor, and if my doctor is booked, she will get another doctor to see me within a day or two.