CORRECTION: JOE WILSON gets BOOED FOR YELLING "You Lie!"

Obama and healthcare reform:

He is telling the truth, trust him.	18.1%	[ 19 ]
He is a politician; be somewhat skeptical.	50.5%	[ 53 ]
Healthcare is not in the cards.	4.8%	[ 5 ]
We need to get our facts straight.	26.7%	[ 28 ]
Total Votes:			[ 105 ]

[Repellant]

Vryko Lakas

HelloNoora

I cannot recall President Bush getting booed during a joint session of Congress broadcast on National Television.

Can anyone else? If yes, can you please provide a link?

So it's so important that Republican lawmakers make asses out of themselves in public during a presidential speech now that you have to try and find an example of Democrats doing likewise for the previous administration? Is that what you're on about?

I really don't envy the poor sucker.

[Devils_Advocate_110]

In Medias Res IV

Devils_Advocate_110

In Medias Res IV

Devils_Advocate_110

In Medias Res IV

Devils_Advocate_110

You mean Canada?

Palin is from Alaska. Alaska is not Canadian territory.

I know Alaska isnt Canadian territory. I still hold that Palin comes from Canada.

Well that's ******** stupid. She's from America, not Canada.

Thats what you think. ~shifty eyes, shifty eyes~

Actually, a bunch of Alaskan people wrote to papers and things that they have no idea where she came from, because theyve never heard the accent from anyoe outside of Canada.

She does not have a Canadian accent, she sounds more like a Jewish New Yorker from Brooklyn than anything else.

There's a word for it: Nasally, not accent.

I know, I know. But thats actually true. A lot of people did write stuff like that to newspapers. Actual Alaskans.

[Vryko Lakas]

Ninth Pariah

McCain has already had cancer once, and is in his seventies. I didn't want to risk that being President. Palin, I mean.

That's one of the bigger reasons. The other reason is that it was pretty clear McCain picked a lousy Veep candidate but refused to acknowledge it. A lot of people recognized this without all the ridiculous post-election Palin drama-ing. The fact that McCain chose someone as dim as her to be in such a position of potential authority was a genuine turn-off.

[magicskittles08]

HelloNoora

I cannot recall President Bush getting booed during a joint session of Congress broadcast on National Television.

Can anyone else? If yes, can you please provide a link?

Unfortunately in selling us on Healthcare Reform, President Obama went over the fibbing threshold right into lying. I am very depressed about this. I love President Obama and I don't like to see him acting like a politician when he should be acting like a statesman.

First: Obama stated that R's want to get rid of all employer paid healthcare insurance. I have never heard this in all the news coverage of the healthcare reform debate, so I think it is a red herring.

Haven't heard about this one either way. I don't think Republicans would say it out loud, but it sounds like something they could definitely support. Offering health care to all employees at a lowered cost hurts small businesses, which Republicans like to support. Of course it also simultaneously allows the average worker to actually afford health care, something they probably could not do otherwise easily. Democrats tend to go for the welfare of the employee over the profit margin of a business.

Quote:

Second: He stated that Sarah Palin's reference to "Death Panels" meant that the healthcare reform was going to euthanize grandma. That was never her claim. She was pointing out that end of life care would also result in a limitation of services to persons based on age and overall health.

Plain most definitely implied that, but using the words implied sounds like mudslinging in a speech. The obvious result of lowered health care for the elderly is allowing the elderly to die. I wouldn't call that a fib, just a simple continuation of logic. It's not like millions of Americans didn't do the same. And since that leap was made, it had to be addressed.

Quote:

Third: Obama stated that Healthcare reform would not be extended to illegal immigrants.

Can't say much about this until/if the health care reform comes about. As it is taxpayers and those with health insurance pay for that. I'd rather everything to be government run with lower costs for doctors and such and then have to pay for illegal immigrants than to have to continue to pay for them now when they go to the ER at thousands of bucks a pop.

Quote:

Last: Obama assures that abortion will never be covered under his plan and the consciousness clause will remain in effect. That one, I hope is the truth. But the first two are not believable.

Well considering that abortion itself is a really inexpensive and easy to obtain procedure the majority of the time, leaving out of reform might not cause a huge splash.

[Boudica Celtic Queen]

As for illegal immigrants, they get care under our hospital system now, even with no insurance. Others, using false IDs, get insurance and care.

As for Obama being booed because he said some details are still being worked out, well any large plan is going to need tweaking.

I haven't found where Bush was booed at a speech to Congress, but he has been plenty booed by the average American in public appearances.

The fringe, not mainline Republicans, have been responsible for much of the fearmongering regarding his healthcare plan. I have read it, and it does allow people to choose. I don't believe employers will automatically dump regular insurance plans, especially the large employers. I think it will help small businesses, though, that can't afford to give their employees options in healthcare.

[HelloNoora]

Syndactyly

That's stupid. Illegal immigrants should not be granted the rights of a citizen. They're morons to boo at that.

I think they were booing because they don't believe that illegals will be excluded. Someone has got to pay for their healthcare. We already are paying it. Why would that change?

[HelloNoora]

Quote:

Plain most definitely implied that, but using the words implied sounds like mudslinging in a speech. The obvious result of lowered health care for the elderly is allowing the elderly to die. I wouldn't call that a fib, just a simple continuation of logic. It's not like millions of Americans didn't do the same. And since that leap was made, it had to be addressed.

I don't know what millions of Americans were thinking. I was pretty sure she meant that giving doctors billable hours for end of life counseling was pretty eerie. Also, because of my work in hospice, I know that that end of life care is a concern when it seems like some elderly people are being greedy with their choices.

[Repellant]

HelloNoora

Syndactyly

That's stupid. Illegal immigrants should not be granted the rights of a citizen. They're morons to boo at that.

I think they were booing because they don't believe that illegals will be excluded. Someone has got to pay for their healthcare. We already are paying it. Why would that change?

I thought the US took pride in offering no more than hot soup for free. How the hell did illegal immigrants become an exception?

[HelloNoora]

Angelheart1700

HelloNoora

I cannot recall President Bush getting booed during a joint session of Congress broadcast on National Television.

Can anyone else? If yes, can you please provide a link?

Unfortunately in selling us on Healthcare Reform, President Obama went over the fibbing threshold right into lying. I am very depressed about this. I love President Obama and I don't like to see him acting like a politician when he should be acting like a statesman.

First: Obama stated that R's want to get rid of all employer paid healthcare insurance. I have never heard this in all the news coverage of the healthcare reform debate, so I think it is a red herring.

Second: He stated that Sarah Palin's reference to "Death Panels" meant that the healthcare reform was going to euthanize grandma. That was never her claim. She was pointing out that end of life care would also result in a limitation of services to persons based on age and overall health.

Third: Obama stated that Healthcare reform would not be extended to illegal immigrants.


Last: Obama assures that abortion will never be covered under his plan and the consciousness clause will remain in effect. That one, I hope is the truth. But the first two are not believable.

You spent an hour picking lies (which for all you know, could be the dead truth.) out off a Presidential speech. stare

The talk was 45 minutes and the lies were glaring. I am rooting for Obama. It is embarrassing to me that he felt he needed to stoop to partisan politics.

[HelloNoora]

Repellant

HelloNoora

Syndactyly

That's stupid. Illegal immigrants should not be granted the rights of a citizen. They're morons to boo at that.

I think they were booing because they don't believe that illegals will be excluded. Someone has got to pay for their healthcare. We already are paying it. Why would that change?

I thought the US took pride in offering no more than hot soup for free. How the hell did illegal immigrants become an exception?

Could you rephrase the question, darling?

[Ace IV]

HelloNoora

Second: He stated that Sarah Palin's reference to "Death Panels" meant that the healthcare reform was going to euthanize grandma. That was never her claim. She was pointing out that end of life care would also result in a limitation of services to persons based on age and overall health.

Obama didn't actually address Sarah Palin, the hubbub on "death panels" has been voiced by many different people.


And Sarah Palin did actually claim that evil government bureaucrats would kill granny.

[magicskittles08]

HelloNoora

Quote:

Plain most definitely implied that, but using the words implied sounds like mudslinging in a speech. The obvious result of lowered health care for the elderly is allowing the elderly to die. I wouldn't call that a fib, just a simple continuation of logic. It's not like millions of Americans didn't do the same. And since that leap was made, it had to be addressed.

I don't know what millions of Americans were thinking. I was pretty sure she meant that giving doctors billable hours for end of life counseling was pretty eerie. Also, because of my work in hospice, I know that that end of life care is a concern when it seems like some elderly people are being greedy with their choices.

I believe it was put in there because many people don't talk about or plan end of life care until it is really necessary, hence why a doctor wouldn't bill for that. If you talk about it in advance with your doctor, I can see the need to bill. It's a doctor's visit, and he should be paid for his time.

What do you mean that some elderly people are greedy with their choices?

[HelloNoora]

Bouidicca

As for illegal immigrants, they get care under our hospital system now, even with no insurance. Others, using false IDs, get insurance and care.

As for Obama being booed because he said some details are still being worked out, well any large plan is going to need tweaking.

I haven't found where Bush was booed at a speech to Congress, but he has been plenty booed by the average American in public appearances.

The fringe, not mainline Republicans, have been responsible for much of the fearmongering regarding his healthcare plan. I have read it, and it does allow people to choose. I don't believe employers will automatically dump regular insurance plans, especially the large employers. I think it will help small businesses, though, that can't afford to give their employees options in healthcare.

He got the hardy-har-har for the bolded. He got booed after he said that his healthcare reform plan would not be extended to illegal immigrants. However, this was probably a delayed response to his partisan reference to "politicians" --- by which everyone knew he meant Palin --- passing around "false information about death panels to kill the elderly." That is not a direct quote. That is a paraphrase. I apologize.

[HelloNoora]

magicskittles08

HelloNoora

Quote:

Plain most definitely implied that, but using the words implied sounds like mudslinging in a speech. The obvious result of lowered health care for the elderly is allowing the elderly to die. I wouldn't call that a fib, just a simple continuation of logic. It's not like millions of Americans didn't do the same. And since that leap was made, it had to be addressed.

I don't know what millions of Americans were thinking. I was pretty sure she meant that giving doctors billable hours for end of life counseling was pretty eerie. Also, because of my work in hospice, I know that that end of life care is a concern when it seems like some elderly people are being greedy with their choices.

I believe it was put in there because many people don't talk about or plan end of life care until it is really necessary, hence why a doctor wouldn't bill for that. If you talk about it in advance with your doctor, I can see the need to bill. It's a doctor's visit, and he should be paid for his time.

What do you mean that some elderly people are greedy with their choices?

I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. pirate

[In Medias Res IV]

Noora, how do you feel about healthcare for all, like Canada has?