McSteak'n'Cheese! ~ SFHangout Thread ~ Objection!

[null_silence]

Geishaberry: if Gaia did not allow the multiple poses for one EI back in 03, why would they do it now??? Why at this time for change???

Doctor: Release of older items??? Well, new users may think that it's not fair that they have to pay millions of gold just to get items back then that the sellers got for free (or much less gold like Steel Plated Ninja Headband, you used to pay 15K just to get it, well look at it now, it's impossible to get it).

Gaia won't ever use this option, that would not be fair to the older users who are still on Gaia. Mass Deflation will happen to the 03's and they will lose MILLIONS OF GOLD if this action is ever taken (it wouldn't be right if Angelic Sash went down to 15k, I would feel bad for the seller, that would mean everyone would be able to afford it).

Don't you care about the older users of Gaia??? They were here first and without them, Gaia wouldn't have new users come because Gaia wouldn't exist.

[melona-pan]

null_silence

Geishaberry: if Gaia did not allow the multiple poses for one EI back in 03, why would they do it now??? Why at this time for change???

You're mixing up Monthly Collectibles, and Evolving Items.

Monthly Collectibles cost $2.50 each. EI's, usually around $7 - 10.

Should MC's have multiple poses? No, there's no need for that, and $2.50 isn't enough to bother with that. They have six - eight poses, tops, per item. That's nothing. The '03 MC's don't even have multiple poses.

Should EI's have multiple poses? Damn straight they should. Why?
Because people are paying TEN DOLLARS for ONE ITEM, with ONE POSE.
It doesn't seem like that much money, until it adds up. If you were to buy one of every EI available in the Cash Shop right now, you'd go over $50. For virtual items.

I'm looking at my Picolitrosso's Urn right now.
I paid $10 for it. Guess how many poses it has?
SEVENTY FOUR.
And guess what? This particular item is glitched, and Gaia has yet to add all the poses into it yet.
Allow me to go count all the poses that Tektek has listed.
One hundred and fifty four.
FOR ONE ITEM.

You know how many of them look good? A LOT.

Now, why should I pay $10 for one of these, to equip ONCE? If I wanted two, that'd be $20. They're a really nice item, most people would want more then one.

Is this fair? ******** hell no.

null_silence

Doctor: Release of older items??? Well, new users may think that it's not fair that they have to pay millions of gold just to get items back then that the sellers got for free (or much less gold like Steel Plated Ninja Headband, you used to pay 15K just to get it, well look at it now, it's impossible to get it).

I agree that Gaia shouldn't re release older items- but I wouldn't put it past them.
Imagine how much gold the greedy bastards would get if they mentioned the last level of the fortune egg could provide a Halo?
Sure, that would decrease the Halo's value.
A little bit.
Gaia wouldn't be stupid enough to give out a lot of these items.
Just a few, so they will attract enough attention, and gain enough money from people going "OMGOMGHALO! I WILL BE RICH."
It would actually be a brilliant move on their greedy part.

[melona-pan]

Also, not meaning to double post, but I wanted to separate this from my last post.

Has anyone seen or heard about splitting the EI's you have into two items, like Gaia announced they would do awhile ago?

'Cause I haven't seen anything it about it since then, and I'm guessing the feature hasn't been added.


ALSO; trades are down, and have been for hours, without a notice.
Nice, Gaia, nice.

[Shuro-kun]

I seriously want to see how people don't have gold. I admit, I used the cash shop a bit. I checked my order history and it says I spent a little over 100 dollars, on items I want.

But still, people are complaining on cash shop items being too high and what not. But all I am seeing from some(notice I said some not all) users, that they want them lowered so they can afford them, right?

Well even if this happens, I still see complaining in the future and they will just want them lowered then that. Then when they get crappy stuff, they are going to say, 'why aren't we getting great things since we gave you all this money? gonk " and Gaia is just going to say, we gave you what you paid for. It is simple as that.

And the cash shop items in the mp. Well if you aren't buying the items from the cash shop, then you have no right to complain about the prices that go in the vend. It is up to the users to deal with that and we are. The ones who buy the items, that is.

If you want the items, then spend your own money for them. If you can't afford them, then oh well.

That just brings the term 'premium' into these items. Premium meaning items for 'paying' customers.

Sure Gaia can have fishes for gold, instead of cash. Which I feel they will do, if you stop buying the cash shop fishes.

Overall, there will be complains in here asking for a lot while paying less. It won't happen.

NEVER.

You pay 2 dollars for an item, you get 2 dollars worth.

It is like buying wine.

Do you expect the wine you payed for 10 dollars to match up to one that caused 20, 30, 40, or even 50? No.

Or for a better example, lets say a hotel.

Do you expect a hotel you pay 100 dollars a night at, to match up to one that causes 200, 300, or even 400 dollars? No. because they are giving you what you pay for. There should be nothing more, nothing less.

End of story.

[mizzshy]

Surprise Transvestite

null_silence

Geishaberry: if Gaia did not allow the multiple poses for one EI back in 03, why would they do it now??? Why at this time for change???

You're mixing up Monthly Collectibles, and Evolving Items.

Monthly Collectibles cost $2.50 each. EI's, usually around $7 - 10.

Should MC's have multiple poses? No, there's no need for that, and $2.50 isn't enough to bother with that. They have six - eight poses, tops, per item. That's nothing. The '03 MC's don't even have multiple poses.

Should EI's have multiple poses? Damn straight they should. Why?
Because people are paying TEN DOLLARS for ONE ITEM, with ONE POSE.
It doesn't seem like that much money, until it adds up. If you were to buy one of every EI available in the Cash Shop right now, you'd go over $50. For virtual items.

I'm looking at my Picolitrosso's Urn right now.
I paid $10 for it. Guess how many poses it has?
SEVENTY FOUR.
And guess what? This particular item is glitched, and Gaia has yet to add all the poses into it yet.
Allow me to go count all the poses that Tektek has listed.
One hundred and fifty four.
FOR ONE ITEM.

You know how many of them look good? A LOT.

Now, why should I pay $10 for one of these, to equip ONCE? If I wanted two, that'd be $20. They're a really nice item, most people would want more then one.

Is this fair? ******** hell no.

Well said. :3

[Shuro-kun]

mizzshy

Surprise Transvestite

null_silence

Geishaberry: if Gaia did not allow the multiple poses for one EI back in 03, why would they do it now??? Why at this time for change???

You're mixing up Monthly Collectibles, and Evolving Items.

Monthly Collectibles cost $2.50 each. EI's, usually around $7 - 10.

Should MC's have multiple poses? No, there's no need for that, and $2.50 isn't enough to bother with that. They have six - eight poses, tops, per item. That's nothing. The '03 MC's don't even have multiple poses.

Should EI's have multiple poses? Damn straight they should. Why?
Because people are paying TEN DOLLARS for ONE ITEM, with ONE POSE.
It doesn't seem like that much money, until it adds up. If you were to buy one of every EI available in the Cash Shop right now, you'd go over $50. For virtual items.

I'm looking at my Picolitrosso's Urn right now.
I paid $10 for it. Guess how many poses it has?
SEVENTY FOUR.
And guess what? This particular item is glitched, and Gaia has yet to add all the poses into it yet.
Allow me to go count all the poses that Tektek has listed.
One hundred and fifty four.
FOR ONE ITEM.

You know how many of them look good? A LOT.

Now, why should I pay $10 for one of these, to equip ONCE? If I wanted two, that'd be $20. They're a really nice item, most people would want more then one.

Is this fair? ******** hell no.

Well said. :3

So what do you feel the item should be worth for each, for these 150 items. That, if I may asked is going to be cut down, due to people not liking the birds. So that is about 10-20 items not liked.

So that leaves it with about 130 or so. And even then, all I see is people liking the sash, helmet thing, the scarf, and that other sash type item.

Hm...So that is 4 things that are favored over all other parts of the item.

So what I am seeing is that the item should be reduce in price and poses.

If I was Gaia, I would do this, just to hear user complaints again. Seriously people complain and say they want a lot of poses. So they give it to you, but due to the artist being under strain they must pay the artists more. But they have bills and such to pay, along with other workers. So they are on a budget. So the only option is raise the price of the item.

For 150 items, as you so say, I think 10 dollars is a fair price, especially when people only use one thing in the item.

But lets go back to people hating the price. Which leaves one option. Lower the poses and the price. That is the only way to settle this and I would keep it like that. People complain, then who cares.

They aren't going to keep switching up to complainers, just like parents won't keep giving a kid what they want, just because they change their minds every 40 seconds. >.>

[terradi]

It's probably worth noting that in 2003 the avatar system was completely different. There was a revamp in ... 2004? 2005? @_@ Years blend together ... I think it was 2005 but I could be wrong. About the time that we saw the angelic staff and demonic staff. A lot of the advances that we see now in items, including skins are because the avatar system was altered to allow these things to happen.

As Gaia has grown it has used it's resources to alter the system in a lot of little ways which have allowed it to become more and more advanced. As well, the first item on Gaia was a thank-you and entirely unexpected by the people who donated for it. In the very beginning, sending *any* cash to Gaia got you an MC. (Thing is, it only got you one!) The $2.50 limit was imposed later, as MC's grew in popularity and became a stable feature.

EI's cost a heckuvalot ... I kind of wish they were more reasonable ... just because I don't have a credit card and I'm not that rich in gold despite being here for years ... but I realize that it may be that it's simply not possible for anyone to keep up with all the changes and additions anymore. Certainly, I remember (aaages ago, on another virtual website) I could never keep up with all the new things there either.

Considering how many options we *do* get with what we can afford though, perhaps what we have is enough?

[melona-pan]

Shuro-kun

So what do you feel the item should be worth for each, for these 150 items. That, if I may asked is going to be cut down, due to people not liking the birds. So that is about 10-20 items not liked.

So that leaves it with about 130 or so. And even then, all I see is people liking the sash, helmet thing, the scarf, and that other sash type item.

Hm...So that is 4 things that are favored over all other parts of the item.

So what I am seeing is that the item should be reduce in price and poses.

If I was Gaia, I would do this, just to hear user complaints again. Seriously people complain and say they want a lot of poses. So they give it to you, but due to the artist being under strain they must pay the artists more. But they have bills and such to pay, along with other workers. So they are on a budget. So the only option is raise the price of the item.

For 150 items, as you so say, I think 10 dollars is a fair price, especially when people only use one thing in the item.

But lets go back to people hating the price. Which leaves one option. Lower the poses and the price. That is the only way to settle this and I would keep it like that. People complain, then who cares.

They aren't going to keep switching up to complainers, just like parents won't keep giving a kid what they want, just because they change their minds every 40 seconds. >.>

It doesn't matter if some of the poses are liked or not.
The point is that Gaia is focusing ALL it's attention on the EI's.

More poses = more chances of hitting a demography. The pretty, matching items? For people who like to make nice, matching avatars. The cute little birds? For people who like to have animals on their avis- there's a surprising amount of them. The weapons? For people who like weapons, or use their avatar as a role playing character. The downright silly poses? For people who just like lulzy items.

Personally, I'd like the items to have less poses, and I for sure want them be cheaper. Not only would that help themselves, as they're having a tonne of problems with too many poses for the later EI's, (like I said earlier, I only have HALF of the poses on my urn, GAia is still 'working' on fixing that issue for First Gen Urn owners.)

I have never, EVER, seen someone on Gaia complain that there aren't enough poses for an item. EVER. And I've been on here for years.

Pay the artists more?
Do you know anything about Gaia?
The artists get paid once. That's it, once, for all their work.
How on earth are they 'under strain', because of the demand?

No one has demanded more poses. This was all Gaia's choice. Why? More poses = more sales. More poses = more people wanting multiple of the items. More poses = more money.

Look at it this way- the early EI's? For example, Herme's Moon. It was one of EI's released first. Guess how many poses there are, in total? Thirty.
Fausto's Bottle? Twenty.
Pantheracorax Agate? Thirteen.
Green Corallus Egg? Ten.

Against the 150+ now?

Was there any demand for more poses back then? Was there even this much of an outcry from users, as there is now? No. No, there wasn't.

You can even see the trend when they started slipping, and added more poses, and raised prices from a few being costly, to all of them being costly. Just look at item's release dates, and compare the poses and price.


" For 150 items, as you so say, I think 10 dollars is a fair price, especially when people only use one thing in the item. "

HOW is ten dollars worth one choice of an item out of 150? What if you really like three poses, and want to wear three to match? Not many people could afford that kind of habit for a virtual item.

There isn't just one option to fix this.
There's several.
Gaia could lower prices, or cut poses, like you said.
They could keep the prices, and could allow each item to split into a few (that would be soul bonded to one another like the announcement said, so you could do multiple poses but it would still only be one item)
They could keep all the poses, and lower the price.

Either would lead more people to buy the items- I'm sure there's more solutions out there, too.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, kid.

You need to step back, open your eyes, and realize what kind of monopoly Gaia's become.

[The Seventh Lost]

though I think that announcement about splitting EI's was only because the avatar and item system has weaknesses, it WOULD make them much more valuable
though I'm sure that is one feature that would be fairly complicated, if they ever do it like they said, it would make EI's worth MUCH more than they are now
if the gold prices start to sky rocket that'll be annoying though >_<
but like someone said, even just splitting the urn in half would add an amazing variety of items, maybe even making it worth the $10, though I still say that's pretty high sweatdrop

[melona-pan]

Shuro-kun

I seriously want to see how people don't have gold. I admit, I used the cash shop a bit. I checked my order history and it says I spent a little over 100 dollars, on items I want.

But still, people are complaining on cash shop items being too high and what not. But all I am seeing from some(notice I said some not all) users, that they want them lowered so they can afford them, right?

Well even if this happens, I still see complaining in the future and they will just want them lowered then that. Then when they get crappy stuff, they are going to say, 'why aren't we getting great things since we gave you all this money? gonk " and Gaia is just going to say, we gave you what you paid for. It is simple as that.

And the cash shop items in the mp. Well if you aren't buying the items from the cash shop, then you have no right to complain about the prices that go in the vend. It is up to the users to deal with that and we are. The ones who buy the items, that is.

If you want the items, then spend your own money for them. If you can't afford them, then oh well.

That just brings the term 'premium' into these items. Premium meaning items for 'paying' customers.

Sure Gaia can have fishes for gold, instead of cash. Which I feel they will do, if you stop buying the cash shop fishes.

Overall, there will be complains in here asking for a lot while paying less. It won't happen.

NEVER.

You pay 2 dollars for an item, you get 2 dollars worth.

It is like buying wine.

Do you expect the wine you payed for 10 dollars to match up to one that caused 20, 30, 40, or even 50? No.

Or for a better example, lets say a hotel.

Do you expect a hotel you pay 100 dollars a night at, to match up to one that causes 200, 300, or even 400 dollars? No. because they are giving you what you pay for. There should be nothing more, nothing less.

End of story.

What do you mean, you don't see how people don't have gold?
Newbies don't have gold at the beginning.
Not large amounts. Common sense.
People who have been on for years do. Vendors do, artists do.
But the average user doesn't.
Hell, most users don't have the talent or irl money to be rich here without saving up for years.

See, the thing you're not getting is this. If Gaia lowers the cost of the items, more people will buy.
Let's say, an EI is selling for $10. Out of 100 users, only 10 buy that item. Gaia made $100.

Now, if that item was, say, $5? Gaia would need to sell 20 to make the same amount of money. I personally would have no problem spending $5 on a good EI. I bet a lot more then 20 people would by it, then.

Gaia would MAKE money off changing how the EI's are priced.

And, true. If you don't want to spend IRL money on Gaia, you can buy in the MP.
Most EIs go for 100k+, especially if they're still evolving.

Let's use my previous example.

10 people out of 100 bought this new EI. For argument's sake, lets say the other 90 really want this item. Now, there's only 10 of them, and 90 who want it. Naturally, the sellers will sell high. It'll inflate, because it can.

Now. If this $10 item cost $5, there would be more of these EI's in circulation. Meaning that there would be more people willing to sell these EI's. So, the price wouldn't be as high, as the supply matches the demand more closely. If EI's deflate, so will EVERYTHING ELSE in the Marketplace. For most users, that's good.

It's a chain reaction. Gary buys EIs and sells them for 100k each, so he can save up to 400k and buy some older MC. But Mary, Bob, and Jane are all doing that, too. So Rob, who's selling said MC, will raise the price of his item, because he can, for the demand is higher now that people are under the impression they can afford said item.

Get it?

And the whole 'get what you pay for' thing is generally, usually, right.

But why now, is this happening?

Since before this year, (for the most part) Gaia has been a friendly website that does things 'for it's users'. Have we ever had to pay IRL cash for better items before? No. There was no difference between the MC's in price.

I can understand them selling things for IRL money, I really can.

But it's gotten to the point where it's just not fair to users anymore.

And you know what? If this continues, Gaia will loose it's members to other new avatar sites that have sworn not to go down this path. And guess what? It's already started.

[Shuro-kun]

I see.

Well when the items first came out, I, as well as a few gaians, thought they and hoped, they would be soul bounded to the user. Because complaints like this would happen.

Yes, I know Gaia is trying to make money just like any other businesses. I been on here long enough to see that, yet this hasn't always happen. And as one of you said, it has happen before the EIs were even introduce.

Now I admit, I did not know they only paid the artist one time. So my apologize to that comment.

And yes, I have seen plenty of users ask for more poses for EIs, but I believe it was for the lower price items and some for future 10 dollar ones.

But yes, if I had to choose via poll or something like that, I would say lower prices, lower poses and call it a day.

As I said, that seems like the only answer that could make people happy.

And the issues with the pose glitch isn't only for the urn, it is for the Alruna and future EIs that could go over the limit of poses. Which is probably why Fallen Wish doesn't have as much poses as it could each evo. So far I think there has been 20 or so, and a few added poses from mini evos, which in some ways, can cause items to go over the limit.

But the idea that people believe no one has any gold is kind of ridiculous. Though it isn't as much as people might have had back then, and I agree with that. And I also agree we need more revenue.

But there is still ways to make gold. Lots of people just depend on the EIs and then blame them for the problems of now.

But to not seem like I am supporting Gaia's acts, I do have a concern.

There is a lot of issues with cash cards. People buy them at the store and the store clerk cheeks it off and all that junk. They go home and the card doesn't work. And then they can't take the card back. That is a big issue as well as those movies where when you open them you get some advertisement from Gaia, like in my Naruto movie.

They give you a Gaia coupon for 400 gold as it says, but I tried it when i got home, after buying the movie and it doesn't work. They need to fix those kind of problems that brings gold back into the site.

As well as add more gold to it, but not that much that it will cause people to depend on it.

[The Seventh Lost]

just adding gold doesn't do anything if people know about it, they just start raising their prices, making it easier to make gold would slowly raise the prices, it's supply and demand
I'd like to see
what would happen
if the completely unlisted all the items on the MP for a time, wiped and indication of what the value was, and then restarted. . . because, I don't think in reality, a lot of these items would be worth so much
if they weren't already
worth so much

[melona-pan]

It would be lovely if the items were soul bound to the user.
But Gaia would never do that, as it would close up a huge demographic- people who want to use IRL money to get rich on Gaia. Buy the EI's, then sell them in the MP.

I have no problem with Gaia trying to make money.

None at all.

But they've gone above and beyond, and it's really, really obvious.

I also know that the glitch isn't just for the Urn, I was just using it as an example. x3;
Like the front page says, some people's items aren't even evolving.

Either way, Gaia has disappointed me. A lot.

[The Seventh Lost]

and
soul bound ei's would cause more uproar from gaia than anything I can think of
items that you can only get through cash would alienate a large proportion of the population, though I would likely be more encouraged to buy cash >_<
for the most part, I don't think people buy EI's to sell, they expect them to be amazing items they want to keep, though, there are no doubt EI investors out there x]

[Shuro-kun]

Well you shouldn't expect a newbie to join and have a middle age wealth, now do you? I sure didn't when I joined in 05. I was poor and could barely make it to 4k. It took me til 07 to make a decent wealth. And I didn't even buy mcs, until late this year.

And even though Gaia should lower their price, since people will still buy and be more likely, it still supports that Gaia has become a EI base money system.

People will think that EIs are the only way to make money as well as MCs. Which is what we want people to stop thinking.

And I see what your saying. Gaia has become somewhat if not completely, a 'get what you pay for' system. Which wasn't the case.

And I for one, wish they would reconsider. Though this only has been happening when their business increase and now have a new boss.

For the losing members part, I seriously doubt it will be that drastic. But I do feel that this site might go into 'the flyff phase'.

If you played Flyff, you will know what I mean. That site has become a complete paypal system and that the only way to do well is to buy items with real money.

Gaia hasn't reached this level yet, but if they continue with making so many EIs it might happen.

But yes, they seriously need to talk to their boss. Because he or she is ruining a great site. Now I don't care about the users leaving because their items aren't worth alot anymore. For them I say, boo-hoo. Get off the site you freaking whiners.

But for the people who are being wrong, I feel sympathy.

Things will eventually get better. They just need to make EIs and MC's equal.

Like MCs, every month like always.

Complete the EIs we have now and start making them every other week. This way the circulation is fair.

But lets be fair about the pricing as well. Lets just have 5-7 dollars be the max price. That seems fair, right?

Maybe once and awhile, like every 6 months, they could make a fantastic item that is worth 10 dollars or 8-9. That sounds good.