Convert Me!!!

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

You're an athiest because those /can't/ be proven to you.
Not cut the crap and shut your mouth, please, because you know we logically can't prove anything to you.

Religion, of all it's shapes and sizes, is based on FAITH.

It's annoying when people, mostly athiests (I don't have anything against Athiests, however they are the largest group I've seen doing this) asking people to prove something they cannot (while the person asking already knows they can't, and won't believe even if they could) just to make an a** out of them later because they can't.

Asking for evidence to prove a claim is the basis of how we judge reality. The only thing that is not held to these standards is religion and it's unfair. Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better.

Now sod off if you're not going to give me evidence, enough people have given me the piss-poor excuse that it's faith thus doesn't require logic or reason DESPITE me specifically telling you all not to in my original post, meaning you have about the intellect of a trained chimp and are simply mimicking each other. You also clearly lack the ability to follow requests. SO ******** OFF!

First, you won't get anywhere by being an a*****e.

Second, this sentence, "Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better" doesn't make sense. Also, I never said my religion is better. I never even mentioned that I had a religion, did I? I only hinted that I myself am not an athiest. I'm a very open-minded person and believe that whatever path a person takes, as long as they are a decent person, will get them to their place of grace.

I do not concider my religion to be the ONLY one, hell, I even concider that it may not even be true. I concider the possibility that when I die I will just decompose into the earth, as science intended my body to, and I will have no soul to go to my peace.

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

Religion, when you get down to the very nitty-gritty, is all morals.
It's just telling people how to be good.

Oh and, I didn't read your whole OP.
I've heard speaches like that more than I would like to, and felt that I would rather not waste my time on it.
I apologize, however you can learn to deal with it.

I tried being polite and it wasn't working, maybe insulting people will make them stop being idiots because after 20+ pages of idiocy I'm getting bored of their inane dribble.

Quote:

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

This is probably the most truth anyone here who wasn't an atheist has conceded.

My question is this then. Is something that is simply a subconscious lie in order to give someone hope then it shouldn't be given the respect it is, (faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not). It should not be having an impact of laws, politics, or social and personal freedoms. It should not be fuelling wars or allowing people to kill in the name of their Gods. It should not be questioning scientific facts such as Evolution, via people with so little understanding of science that they would fail high-school biology. It should not be holding back scientific advancements as it did in the dark ages, and it should certainly not be treated as an equal to scientific acheivements or on par with scientific theory. Religion is not meant to be real, then stop treating it like it is. If it's simply a psychological barrier to cope with the trauma of accepting mortality then fine, treat it as such, and stop allowing it to rule over the lives of people like me, who have grown intellectually robust enough to not require lying to myself to cope with knowing the truth.

Thank you, this is really all that needs to be said on the topic, but if someone has a unique unsaid point please make it, but keep it intelligent, I have no time for morons now.

Morons are a part of life.
I run into them, and the damn ignorant people all the time.
However you can't expect someone to read all the pages of the thread an understand your failing of patience. It doesn't work that way.
I'm sure you've heard the saying 'you'll attract more bees with honey' or something like that.
You're just lucky I'm an inteligent person who takes anger as a challenge, instead of something that makes me wanna get the ******** out. xD

I completely agree with you on the religious thing. (I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system. Things such as Tarot or Prayer should be kept in private. (Unless using them to extort others and get money, of course ;D [/joke] )

However, this: "faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not" seems based soley on your opinion. Unless you give me a scientific document, since science is what you're preaching, that says that faith is not a good thing and is self-deciet, please do not state it as fact.

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

I also do agree with you that war should not be waged by religion.
However, try to tell that to the Chuch.

Oh and, Science has many unexplained things.
Religion /could/ be concidered in that unexplained science catagory.

[Tornado_Creator]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

You're an athiest because those /can't/ be proven to you.
Not cut the crap and shut your mouth, please, because you know we logically can't prove anything to you.

Religion, of all it's shapes and sizes, is based on FAITH.

It's annoying when people, mostly athiests (I don't have anything against Athiests, however they are the largest group I've seen doing this) asking people to prove something they cannot (while the person asking already knows they can't, and won't believe even if they could) just to make an a** out of them later because they can't.

Asking for evidence to prove a claim is the basis of how we judge reality. The only thing that is not held to these standards is religion and it's unfair. Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better.

Now sod off if you're not going to give me evidence, enough people have given me the piss-poor excuse that it's faith thus doesn't require logic or reason DESPITE me specifically telling you all not to in my original post, meaning you have about the intellect of a trained chimp and are simply mimicking each other. You also clearly lack the ability to follow requests. SO ******** OFF!

First, you won't get anywhere by being an a*****e.

Second, this sentence, "Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better" doesn't make sense. Also, I never said my religion is better. I never even mentioned that I had a religion, did I? I only hinted that I myself am not an athiest. I'm a very open-minded person and believe that whatever path a person takes, as long as they are a decent person, will get them to their place of grace.

I do not concider my religion to be the ONLY one, hell, I even concider that it may not even be true. I concider the possibility that when I die I will just decompose into the earth, as science intended my body to, and I will have no soul to go to my peace.

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

Religion, when you get down to the very nitty-gritty, is all morals.
It's just telling people how to be good.

Oh and, I didn't read your whole OP.
I've heard speaches like that more than I would like to, and felt that I would rather not waste my time on it.
I apologize, however you can learn to deal with it.

I tried being polite and it wasn't working, maybe insulting people will make them stop being idiots because after 20+ pages of idiocy I'm getting bored of their inane dribble.

Quote:

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

This is probably the most truth anyone here who wasn't an atheist has conceded.

My question is this then. Is something that is simply a subconscious lie in order to give someone hope then it shouldn't be given the respect it is, (faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not). It should not be having an impact of laws, politics, or social and personal freedoms. It should not be fuelling wars or allowing people to kill in the name of their Gods. It should not be questioning scientific facts such as Evolution, via people with so little understanding of science that they would fail high-school biology. It should not be holding back scientific advancements as it did in the dark ages, and it should certainly not be treated as an equal to scientific acheivements or on par with scientific theory. Religion is not meant to be real, then stop treating it like it is. If it's simply a psychological barrier to cope with the trauma of accepting mortality then fine, treat it as such, and stop allowing it to rule over the lives of people like me, who have grown intellectually robust enough to not require lying to myself to cope with knowing the truth.

Thank you, this is really all that needs to be said on the topic, but if someone has a unique unsaid point please make it, but keep it intelligent, I have no time for morons now.

Morons are a part of life.
I run into them, and the damn ignorant people all the time.
However you can't expect someone to read all the pages of the thread an understand your failing of patience. It doesn't work that way.
I'm sure you've heard the saying 'you'll attract more bees with honey' or something like that.
You're just lucky I'm an inteligent person who takes anger as a challenge, instead of something that makes me wanna get the ******** out. xD

I completely agree with you on the religious thing. (I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system. Things such as Tarot or Prayer should be kept in private. (Unless using them to extort others and get money, of course ;D [/joke] )

However, this: "faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not" seems based soley on your opinion. Unless you give me a scientific document, since science is what you're preaching, that says that faith is not a good thing and is self-deciet, please do not state it as fact.

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

I also do agree with you that war should not be waged by religion.
However, try to tell that to the Chuch.

Oh and, Science has many unexplained things.
Religion /could/ be concidered in that unexplained science catagory.

God of the gaps is pointless.

Secondly... I consider faith to be a wall that blocks science because if someone explains something with faith they're not answering the question.

Faith is by it's definition self-deceit, look up faith in the dictionary and read between the lines.

As for if faith can be good for individual people, it might be, but science is something I consider to have more lasting effects, after all, science has made the current lifestyle possible, faith has provided very little.

[Ratreoz]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Asking for evidence to prove a claim is the basis of how we judge reality. The only thing that is not held to these standards is religion and it's unfair. Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better.

Now sod off if you're not going to give me evidence, enough people have given me the piss-poor excuse that it's faith thus doesn't require logic or reason DESPITE me specifically telling you all not to in my original post, meaning you have about the intellect of a trained chimp and are simply mimicking each other. You also clearly lack the ability to follow requests. SO ******** OFF!

First, you won't get anywhere by being an a*****e.

Second, this sentence, "Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better" doesn't make sense. Also, I never said my religion is better. I never even mentioned that I had a religion, did I? I only hinted that I myself am not an athiest. I'm a very open-minded person and believe that whatever path a person takes, as long as they are a decent person, will get them to their place of grace.

I do not concider my religion to be the ONLY one, hell, I even concider that it may not even be true. I concider the possibility that when I die I will just decompose into the earth, as science intended my body to, and I will have no soul to go to my peace.

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

Religion, when you get down to the very nitty-gritty, is all morals.
It's just telling people how to be good.

Oh and, I didn't read your whole OP.
I've heard speaches like that more than I would like to, and felt that I would rather not waste my time on it.
I apologize, however you can learn to deal with it.

I tried being polite and it wasn't working, maybe insulting people will make them stop being idiots because after 20+ pages of idiocy I'm getting bored of their inane dribble.

Quote:

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

This is probably the most truth anyone here who wasn't an atheist has conceded.

My question is this then. Is something that is simply a subconscious lie in order to give someone hope then it shouldn't be given the respect it is, (faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not). It should not be having an impact of laws, politics, or social and personal freedoms. It should not be fuelling wars or allowing people to kill in the name of their Gods. It should not be questioning scientific facts such as Evolution, via people with so little understanding of science that they would fail high-school biology. It should not be holding back scientific advancements as it did in the dark ages, and it should certainly not be treated as an equal to scientific acheivements or on par with scientific theory. Religion is not meant to be real, then stop treating it like it is. If it's simply a psychological barrier to cope with the trauma of accepting mortality then fine, treat it as such, and stop allowing it to rule over the lives of people like me, who have grown intellectually robust enough to not require lying to myself to cope with knowing the truth.

Thank you, this is really all that needs to be said on the topic, but if someone has a unique unsaid point please make it, but keep it intelligent, I have no time for morons now.

Morons are a part of life.
I run into them, and the damn ignorant people all the time.
However you can't expect someone to read all the pages of the thread an understand your failing of patience. It doesn't work that way.
I'm sure you've heard the saying 'you'll attract more bees with honey' or something like that.
You're just lucky I'm an inteligent person who takes anger as a challenge, instead of something that makes me wanna get the ******** out. xD

I completely agree with you on the religious thing. (I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system. Things such as Tarot or Prayer should be kept in private. (Unless using them to extort others and get money, of course ;D [/joke] )

However, this: "faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not" seems based soley on your opinion. Unless you give me a scientific document, since science is what you're preaching, that says that faith is not a good thing and is self-deciet, please do not state it as fact.

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

I also do agree with you that war should not be waged by religion.
However, try to tell that to the Chuch.

Oh and, Science has many unexplained things.
Religion /could/ be concidered in that unexplained science catagory.

God of the gaps is pointless.

Secondly... I consider faith to be a wall that blocks science because if someone explains something with faith they're not answering the question.

Faith is by it's definition self-deceit, look up faith in the dictionary and read between the lines.

As for if faith can be good for individual people, it might be, but science is something I consider to have more lasting effects, after all, science has made the current lifestyle possible, faith has provided very little.

I apologize for my feeling a little pissed.
But it seems you missed when I said that "I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system."

To me, science is proven over faith.
My faith doesn't claim to have created the earth, my faith doesn't claim that a giant flood invaded the earth (which yes I know, was completely scientifically impossible)

My faith does include that invisible being in the sky, however, science hasn't proved or disproved her existance yet.

Ever heard of a myth? It's to Explain the Unexplained.
Basically what faith is for.

The definition of Faith is "loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person, complete confidence in a person or plan, a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny, and institution to express belief in a divine power." Four definitions.

While looking at it from a strong religion (such as christianity) point of view, yes it could be could be concidered as self-deciet.
However I fit into those definitions and believe science to be truer that faith.

I agree with you on the wall thing, but don't explain it to me, I can't do anything about it.
Again people who are into that catagory are people in religions who say their way and their belief is truth and the only truth. I do not fit in that.

And what the hell is the God of the Gaps?

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

Ratreoz

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.
Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Tornado_Creator

Lucky~9~Lives

Tornado_Creator

At any rate, the point I'm getting at here is that people keep trying to exempt religion from needing to be justified because it's not the same as science. And this is true, but that still doesn't excuse you from needing to justify your claims with sound evidence, because without it--whether you like it or not--your beliefs then are nothing more than irrational and empty claims.

The question is how one defines 'sound evidence' - is 'I love you' also an irrational and empty claim, merely because the only evidence I have for it is my own subjective (and thus inherently uncommunicable directly) experience?

Actually love is shown to have biological causes...

So are numinous experiences - the point is brain activity can only be correlated to subjective experience; one can't actually observe the subjective experience itself.

[Tornado_Creator]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

First, you won't get anywhere by being an a*****e.

Second, this sentence, "Everything else has to prove itself what makes your religion any ******** better" doesn't make sense. Also, I never said my religion is better. I never even mentioned that I had a religion, did I? I only hinted that I myself am not an athiest. I'm a very open-minded person and believe that whatever path a person takes, as long as they are a decent person, will get them to their place of grace.

I do not concider my religion to be the ONLY one, hell, I even concider that it may not even be true. I concider the possibility that when I die I will just decompose into the earth, as science intended my body to, and I will have no soul to go to my peace.

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

Religion, when you get down to the very nitty-gritty, is all morals.
It's just telling people how to be good.

Oh and, I didn't read your whole OP.
I've heard speaches like that more than I would like to, and felt that I would rather not waste my time on it.
I apologize, however you can learn to deal with it.

I tried being polite and it wasn't working, maybe insulting people will make them stop being idiots because after 20+ pages of idiocy I'm getting bored of their inane dribble.

Quote:

Religion isn't ment to be real, in my opinion.
It's ment to give people faith and hope.
Humans are naturally afraid to die, minus the minority who aren't.
Thus, giving them a hope lets them die more peacefully.

This is probably the most truth anyone here who wasn't an atheist has conceded.

My question is this then. Is something that is simply a subconscious lie in order to give someone hope then it shouldn't be given the respect it is, (faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not). It should not be having an impact of laws, politics, or social and personal freedoms. It should not be fuelling wars or allowing people to kill in the name of their Gods. It should not be questioning scientific facts such as Evolution, via people with so little understanding of science that they would fail high-school biology. It should not be holding back scientific advancements as it did in the dark ages, and it should certainly not be treated as an equal to scientific acheivements or on par with scientific theory. Religion is not meant to be real, then stop treating it like it is. If it's simply a psychological barrier to cope with the trauma of accepting mortality then fine, treat it as such, and stop allowing it to rule over the lives of people like me, who have grown intellectually robust enough to not require lying to myself to cope with knowing the truth.

Thank you, this is really all that needs to be said on the topic, but if someone has a unique unsaid point please make it, but keep it intelligent, I have no time for morons now.

Morons are a part of life.
I run into them, and the damn ignorant people all the time.
However you can't expect someone to read all the pages of the thread an understand your failing of patience. It doesn't work that way.
I'm sure you've heard the saying 'you'll attract more bees with honey' or something like that.
You're just lucky I'm an inteligent person who takes anger as a challenge, instead of something that makes me wanna get the ******** out. xD

I completely agree with you on the religious thing. (I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system. Things such as Tarot or Prayer should be kept in private. (Unless using them to extort others and get money, of course ;D [/joke] )

However, this: "faith is not a virtue it's self-deceit so don't act as though giving it to someone is a good thing, it is profoundly not" seems based soley on your opinion. Unless you give me a scientific document, since science is what you're preaching, that says that faith is not a good thing and is self-deciet, please do not state it as fact.

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

I also do agree with you that war should not be waged by religion.
However, try to tell that to the Chuch.

Oh and, Science has many unexplained things.
Religion /could/ be concidered in that unexplained science catagory.

God of the gaps is pointless.

Secondly... I consider faith to be a wall that blocks science because if someone explains something with faith they're not answering the question.

Faith is by it's definition self-deceit, look up faith in the dictionary and read between the lines.

As for if faith can be good for individual people, it might be, but science is something I consider to have more lasting effects, after all, science has made the current lifestyle possible, faith has provided very little.

I apologize for my feeling a little pissed.
But it seems you missed when I said that "I'm all about science and nature and education and all that shiz, withouth religious bullshit entering the school system."

To me, science is proven over faith.
My faith doesn't claim to have created the earth, my faith doesn't claim that a giant flood invaded the earth (which yes I know, was completely scientifically impossible)

My faith does include that invisible being in the sky, however, science hasn't proved or disproved her existance yet.

Ever heard of a myth? It's to Explain the Unexplained.
Basically what faith is for.

The definition of Faith is "loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person, complete confidence in a person or plan, a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny, and institution to express belief in a divine power." Four definitions.

While looking at it from a strong religion (such as christianity) point of view, yes it could be could be concidered as self-deciet.
However I fit into those definitions and believe science to be truer that faith.

I agree with you on the wall thing, but don't explain it to me, I can't do anything about it.
Again people who are into that catagory are people in religions who say their way and their belief is truth and the only truth. I do not fit in that.

And what the hell is the God of the Gaps?

God Of The Gaps is a fallacious way in which more intelligent people can justify believing in God by simply attributing the things we don't yet understand and have yet to explain with science to God. However all it means is God fits in the gaps in science, but these gaps get smaller every day. Every scientific discovery is one less thing that the person who believes in the God of the gaps will attribute to God as they will now accept the scientific reason, however they seem incapable of seeing the flaws in the fact that they previously attributed it it God. Surely they should see that the things they still attribute to God will likely be explained by science at a later date. This is the God of the Gaps, and as someone who has debated religion many times, it's a common fallacious look on the world, often held by those that need to work around science but are also religious.

[Ratreoz]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.

It's either true or false. Reality or fantasy.

Quote:

Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Do you now? What would convince you that it's pure fantasy?

Quote:

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

I actively try to purge myself of any false beliefs. You don't.

Quote:

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

I do. A superstitious society is a bad thing.

[Tornado_Creator]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Ratreoz

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

]It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.
Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

No-one, however I would hope, that I'm not. I realise this was directed at Ratreoz but I feel I should answer it too. It's not that I'm not in self-deceit but I actively try not to be self-deceiving. Currently I'm not to the best of my knowledge.

Lets Do The Time-Warp

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

That would be Anton LaVey, and I happen to agree with him. However this is a point where it becomes opinion.

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

Ratreoz

Lets Do The Time-Warp

It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.

It's either true or false. Reality or fantasy.

Quote:

Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Do you now? What would convince you that it's pure fantasy?

Quote:

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

I actively try to purge myself of any false beliefs. You don't.

Quote:

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

I do. A superstitious society is a bad thing.

-That's the kind of thinking that causes religious wars.
Good going :]

-It would convince me it's pure fantasy if I die and I have no soul and I don't go to peace.

-That would depend on what someone would call false beliefs.
Also, you have no idea what I do and do not believe, so please do not assume you know. It's very rude and absolutely ignorant.

-Well get used to it, I doubt religion is going anywhere.

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Ratreoz

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

]It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.
Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

No-one, however I would hope, that I'm not. I realise this was directed at Ratreoz but I feel I should answer it too. It's not that I'm not in self-deceit but I actively try not to be self-deceiving. Currently I'm not to the best of my knowledge.

Lets Do The Time-Warp

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

That would be Anton LaVey, and I happen to agree with him. However this is a point where it becomes opinion.

Well I like your answer better than his. ._.
At least you accept the fact that you /could/ be falsely decieving yourself, even though you believe it's highly unlikely.
My mind is in the same position, however we disagree.

I've never read any of his work.
What is it exactly that he explaines/does?
You've gotten me intruiged.
But if he's a guy that spews anti-religious stuff, I may have to pass. lol

[Lets Do The Time-Warp]

I'm off to bed.
I'm dreafully tired.
If the thread is still going later I might pop in.

Tata.

[Ratreoz]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

-That's the kind of thinking that causes religious wars.
Good going :]

Actually, it's just the truth. A claim of reality is either true or false. It would be folly to dispute this.

Quote:

-It would convince me it's pure fantasy if I die and I have no soul and I don't go to peace.

So you are never going to be convinced.

Quote:

-Well get used to it, I doubt religion is going anywhere.

I can try to minimize the damage it causes.

Lets Do The Time-Warp

At least you accept the fact that you /could/ be falsely decieving yourself, even though you believe it's highly unlikely.

And I don't?
"Also, you have no idea what I do and do not believe, so please do not assume you know. It's very rude and absolutely ignorant."

[Tornado_Creator]

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Ratreoz

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Faith can be a good thing to many people.
It has made me a happier, more energetic person.
I've learned a lot and have learned a lot about other people.

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

]It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.
Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

No-one, however I would hope, that I'm not. I realise this was directed at Ratreoz but I feel I should answer it too. It's not that I'm not in self-deceit but I actively try not to be self-deceiving. Currently I'm not to the best of my knowledge.

Lets Do The Time-Warp

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

That would be Anton LaVey, and I happen to agree with him. However this is a point where it becomes opinion.

Well I like your answer better than his. ._.
At least you accept the fact that you /could/ be falsely decieving yourself, even though you believe it's highly unlikely.
My mind is in the same position, however we disagree.

I've never read any of his work.
What is it exactly that he explaines/does?
You've gotten me intruiged.
But if he's a guy that spews anti-religious stuff, I may have to pass. lol

I think you'll find that Ratreoz and I have surprisingly similar opinions on these things, just that our wording is different, that is all.

As for Anton LaVey, he wrote the Satanic Bible. It is specifically anti-religious so you probably won't like it, however some of what was discussed and suggested my prove to be useful if you can ascribe it to your life. Satanism is quite an interesting philosophy and one that even Christians are attempting to use with there being a sect of Christianity (Luciferians) who attempt to use some of what was in the Satanic Bible... badly.

You seem like if you could convince yourself to suspend faith long enough to objectively examine reality you would realise how stupid your religion really is, how false it is, and how unconvincing and unbelievable it is to anyone outside of it. It's only one step however it seems to be both the easiest and simplest and the hardest and most complex depending on the person.

At current I consider you a delusional psychotic with a fantastical view of reality that has very little basis in scientific fact, and this is not meant as an insult. However if you can objectively view the world you can easily drop these labels. You also have a scientific mind, but only when it suits you it seems. You must further this and allow it to consider everything in your life, attack your core beliefs with the same veracity that you would expect for a scientific theory and you will eventually be in a situation where you can claim that you are objective, and that you consider everything with logic and reason, that is, if you want to live in reality rather than fantasy.

One warning I will give, if like me, you examine the entirety of religion and find none of them make sense and most of them are counter-intuitive and the hypothesis that they are merely constructs of the mind used to stop those of weak will going completely insane, you may end up a little lonely. It's rather daunting when you realise that you see what is so glaringly obvious to you, yet 4/5 of the world don't see it. It makes you feel very little respect for the species as a whole and it makes it very hard to not feel superior when around your friends and family. I just console myself with the fact that, hell, I'm superior... too bad for them.

[devilbuddha]

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Tornado_Creator

Lets Do The Time-Warp

Ratreoz

Self-deceit can make a person happy. We are talking about truth claims. You have faith that X is true. That can then be examined.

]It's true to me, I don't concider it truth to everyone else.
Also, if you read, I do accept the possibility that it may not even exist.

Who says you aren't in Self-Deceit?

No-one, however I would hope, that I'm not. I realise this was directed at Ratreoz but I feel I should answer it too. It's not that I'm not in self-deceit but I actively try not to be self-deceiving. Currently I'm not to the best of my knowledge.

Lets Do The Time-Warp

And who is to say deceiting yourself into happiness is wrong?

That would be Anton LaVey, and I happen to agree with him. However this is a point where it becomes opinion.

Well I like your answer better than his. ._.
At least you accept the fact that you /could/ be falsely decieving yourself, even though you believe it's highly unlikely.
My mind is in the same position, however we disagree.

I've never read any of his work.
What is it exactly that he explaines/does?
You've gotten me intruiged.
But if he's a guy that spews anti-religious stuff, I may have to pass. lol

I think you'll find that Ratreoz and I have surprisingly similar opinions on these things, just that our wording is different, that is all.

As for Anton LaVey, he wrote the Satanic Bible. It is specifically anti-religious so you probably won't like it, however some of what was discussed and suggested my prove to be useful if you can ascribe it to your life. Satanism is quite an interesting philosophy and one that even Christians are attempting to use with there being a sect of Christianity (Luciferians) who attempt to use some of what was in the Satanic Bible... badly.

You seem like if you could convince yourself to suspend faith long enough to objectively examine reality you would realise how stupid your religion really is, how false it is, and how unconvincing and unbelievable it is to anyone outside of it. It's only one step however it seems to be both the easiest and simplest and the hardest and most complex depending on the person.

At current I consider you a delusional psychotic with a fantastical view of reality that has very little basis in scientific fact, and this is not meant as an insult. However if you can objectively view the world you can easily drop these labels. You also have a scientific mind, but only when it suits you it seems. You must further this and allow it to consider everything in your life, attack your core beliefs with the same veracity that you would expect for a scientific theory and you will eventually be in a situation where you can claim that you are objective, and that you consider everything with logic and reason, that is, if you want to live in reality rather than fantasy.

One warning I will give, if like me, you examine the entirety of religion and find none of them make sense and most of them are counter-intuitive and the hypothesis that they are merely constructs of the mind used to stop those of weak will going completely insane, you may end up a little lonely. It's rather daunting when you realise that you see what is so glaringly obvious to you, yet 4/5 of the world don't see it. It makes you feel very little respect for the species as a whole and it makes it very hard to not feel superior when around your friends and family. I just console myself with the fact that, hell, I'm superior... too bad for them.

Just because science is the only philosophy that is based on doubt as well as creating the actual idea of proof in which one can prove the existence of an idea in its physicality is no reason to deny the existence of other possibilities. Through time the doubter inhabits his limits.