Welcome to Gaia! ::


Postulate
Tornado Creator: would you prefer the discussion I mentioned earlier via PM, in a new thread, or in this thread?


Whichever you prefer.
GuardianSoulX
Okay, you want a philosophical argument then........? *sigh* Ok...... stressed

Well to the author of this thread, do you actually believe in truth?
Next answer this, do you believe that perfection is a possibility?
Do you believe that everything has a purpose or is everything just so random to accidentally gain a purpose?
Do you believe that you are an animal? And the question that follows is: do you feel that there is more to life?
What do you perceive faith to be? What do you perceive evidence to be?
Is truth opinionated?
And finally........Which existed first: truth or reason?

Answer these questions please and I'll be able to understand your "challenge."

Thank you and have a nice day. ^^


Ok, interesting questions, I will answer them as best as I can.

1. Do you actually believe in truth?

This is a difficult question, because to believe is to accept something as truth, so you're asking do I accept that truth is true. In other words, does truth exist. I would say yes. It's an assumption I will admit, but it's one that isn't contradicted as of yet, but anything I've encountered and without it we could not make sense of the world around us.

2. Do you believe that perfection is possible?

Not sure if it is really. Perfection is a human ideal, it is based off purposes we set forth. Something can only be perfect if we give it a parameter to meet, and most are unreasonably unlikely or statistically impossible.

3. Do you believe that everything has a purpose or is everything just so random to accidentally gain a purpose?

This is a pointed question but I'll answer it anyway. Purpose is a human ideal, only humans are doing things with purpose and have goals. A rock doesn't have a goal, neither does a ball of ice, a cloud of dust or any other object you care to mention. The only way something has a purpose is if it's specifically crafted with a purpose by people, or assigned a purpose by people. So no, everything does not have a purpose until we give it one.

4. Do you believe that you are an animal?

No. I KNOW that I am an animal. This is self-evident in that I am living and I'm not a plant, fungus or bacterium, therefore I am an animal. It is possible I could be a fifth form of life, but it's so unlikely that it's not worth testing. Human beings however as a species, they are animals.

5. Do you feel that there is more to life?

More than what?

You seem to assume I'm dissatisfied with life as it is... but what do you mean by "more to life", that's ambiguous and makes little sense. More to life than what, debating on the internet. Probably, I'll likely find more direction in life in a few years.

6. What do you perceive faith to be?

Idiotic.

Faith is accepting something as fact without reason, and even in spite of reason. It is the opposite of logic. It is pointless.

7. What do you perceive evidence to be?

Evidence is anything that can objectively support one interpretation of the world to be true. If there is enough evidence, it is considered fact until a single piece of evidence to disprove that interpretation is shown. Some evidence is weak and some is strong, depending on the situation, it's reliability etc.

8. Is truth opinionated?

Truth has no opinion, so no. If you mean is truth subjective, then no, no really. People can accept things as truth that are not, so one person can call something true when it isn't, and as people make mistakes and have inferior knowledge of the world to know all truths it is likely that everyone accepts one or more falsities as truth. I hope to accept as few falsities as possible. Actual truth is not subjective, people however are, and people make mistakes.

9. Which existed first: truth or reason?

Truth. As reason is simply the method by which we observe in an objective manner in order to discern truth, truth must have existed first.

I hope these answers help.
Kikina Meshiko
Tornado_Creator
Ok. I am an atheist.

I am giving people a challenge here. I want you to convert me. No insults, no stupidity, no crap. I want people to give me a REASON to believe in your religion. If someone can give me a proper reason, based on logic and evidence then I will believe and convert right here online.

Things I definitely won't except as a reason to believe.

1. Anything written in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah or any other holy book or piece of scripture.
2. Anything obviously fallacious. If your mother survive a car crash and credits God, good for her, it isn't going to convince me.
3. Saying I need to "feel it in my heart" or "have faith", or saying that I can't have evidence of God.
4. Threatening me with Hell or any other appeal to emotions or argument from morality.

So. Please. Tell me why you believe, and convert me. If you're really right you should be able to convince me of your religion, you should have some form of evidence you can show me.


Hmmmmmm. Yet another thread made to get attention. What a waste of time. Religion isn't based on logic and evidence; its based on faith. If you're waiting for "evidence", then you're wasting your time.


The girl is right.
Prince Forever True
Kikina Meshiko
Tornado_Creator
Ok. I am an atheist.

I am giving people a challenge here. I want you to convert me. No insults, no stupidity, no crap. I want people to give me a REASON to believe in your religion. If someone can give me a proper reason, based on logic and evidence then I will believe and convert right here online.

Things I definitely won't except as a reason to believe.

1. Anything written in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah or any other holy book or piece of scripture.
2. Anything obviously fallacious. If your mother survive a car crash and credits God, good for her, it isn't going to convince me.
3. Saying I need to "feel it in my heart" or "have faith", or saying that I can't have evidence of God.
4. Threatening me with Hell or any other appeal to emotions or argument from morality.

So. Please. Tell me why you believe, and convert me. If you're really right you should be able to convince me of your religion, you should have some form of evidence you can show me.


Hmmmmmm. Yet another thread made to get attention. What a waste of time. Religion isn't based on logic and evidence; its based on faith. If you're waiting for "evidence", then you're wasting your time.


The girl is right.

Minus one flaw - there are religions based on logic. LaVeyan Satanism, for example.
error[dot]exe
Prince Forever True
Kikina Meshiko
Tornado_Creator
Ok. I am an atheist.

I am giving people a challenge here. I want you to convert me. No insults, no stupidity, no crap. I want people to give me a REASON to believe in your religion. If someone can give me a proper reason, based on logic and evidence then I will believe and convert right here online.

Things I definitely won't except as a reason to believe.

1. Anything written in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah or any other holy book or piece of scripture.
2. Anything obviously fallacious. If your mother survive a car crash and credits God, good for her, it isn't going to convince me.
3. Saying I need to "feel it in my heart" or "have faith", or saying that I can't have evidence of God.
4. Threatening me with Hell or any other appeal to emotions or argument from morality.

So. Please. Tell me why you believe, and convert me. If you're really right you should be able to convince me of your religion, you should have some form of evidence you can show me.


Hmmmmmm. Yet another thread made to get attention. What a waste of time. Religion isn't based on logic and evidence; its based on faith. If you're waiting for "evidence", then you're wasting your time.


The girl is right.

Minus one flaw - there are religions based on logic. LaVeyan Satanism, for example.

Besides, it's a lame cop-out.
Ratreoz
error[dot]exe
Prince Forever True
Kikina Meshiko
Tornado_Creator
Ok. I am an atheist.

I am giving people a challenge here. I want you to convert me. No insults, no stupidity, no crap. I want people to give me a REASON to believe in your religion. If someone can give me a proper reason, based on logic and evidence then I will believe and convert right here online.

Things I definitely won't except as a reason to believe.

1. Anything written in the Bible, Qur'an, Torah or any other holy book or piece of scripture.
2. Anything obviously fallacious. If your mother survive a car crash and credits God, good for her, it isn't going to convince me.
3. Saying I need to "feel it in my heart" or "have faith", or saying that I can't have evidence of God.
4. Threatening me with Hell or any other appeal to emotions or argument from morality.

So. Please. Tell me why you believe, and convert me. If you're really right you should be able to convince me of your religion, you should have some form of evidence you can show me.


Hmmmmmm. Yet another thread made to get attention. What a waste of time. Religion isn't based on logic and evidence; its based on faith. If you're waiting for "evidence", then you're wasting your time.


The girl is right.

Minus one flaw - there are religions based on logic. LaVeyan Satanism, for example.

Besides, it's a lame cop-out.

I'd have to agree with that.

Though I do agree with her assertion that this thread is essentially baiting.

Sparkly Fairy

I feel that this is point less to argue, You seem un-open to our words, but tell me something.
What if you are wrong? What if God is real?
Ramdatta
What if you are wrong? What if God is real?

Maybe you could give us a reason to even consider the notion?

What if Zeus is real?
What if Odin is real?
What if Cthulhu is real?
What if Quetzalcoatl is real?
What if Mars is real?

Can you give me any reason to consider one over the others?

Sparkly Fairy

Ratreoz
Ramdatta
What if you are wrong? What if God is real?

Maybe you could give us a reason to even consider the notion?

What if Zeus is real?
What if Odin is real?
What if Cthulhu is real?
What if Quetzalcoatl is real?
What if Mars is real?

Can you give me any reason to consider one over the others?

Yes, yes I can. There is a ancient book, that it took over 1500 years to make, called "The Word"
(In other words, The Bible)
I have heard Him speak to me, weather you believe it or not.
And why dont you answer my question?
Since I know some one will ask, God does not answer non-believers, he has no obligation to them.
Ramdatta
I feel that this is point less to argue, You seem un-open to our words, but tell me something.
What if you are wrong? What if God is real?


Pictures of galaxies

So, in the above image, there are 10,000 galaxies, and that image is less than one ten-millionth of the night sky.

Let's suppose that our galaxy is huge, compared to the others -- it's not, but let's pretend. There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy. Let's suppose that all other galaxies have, on average, only 1/10th of the stars as ours, so 40 billion.

Let us also suppose that this portion of the night sky is unique, and that all other areas have only 1% as many galaxies in them. That's 100 galaxies.

So, in the area of space we can see from Earth, that means there are 10,000,000 of those photos, each with 100 galaxies in them, and each galaxy has 40 billion stars. So we then have 40,000,000,000 stars that we can see.

This doesn't mean there couldn't possibly be any deities, of course. But, thinking about it, exactly how is the Earth special? And, if the Earth isn't special, then why would this one insignificant planet be chosen out of the infinite void? And why would this one random species be selected, out of the huge magnitude that exist on this planet?

So, that's the thing, if one wishes to say that there is one deity, and that deity created all the universe, and that deity did it all for humanity, that person would have a lot of explaining to do for me, at least, to believe it.
Ramdatta
Yes, yes I can. There is a ancient book, that it took over 1500 years to make, called "The Word"
(In other words, The Bible)


It didn't take that long =p

Ramdatta
Since I know some one will ask, God does not answer non-believers, he has no obligation to them.


Proof?

Although it may just be that a non-believer does not ask YHWH for anything, so there are no prayers to answer. And you may say that anyone who prays must believe at least a little bit...
Ramdatta
Yes, yes I can. There is a ancient book, that it took over 1500 years to make, called "The Word"
(In other words, The Bible)

And how is that special? Other religions have older writings.

Quote:
I have heard Him speak to me, weather you believe it or not.

I don't and I feel obligated to suggest that you seek help.

Quote:
And why dont you answer my question?

If I am wrong and Christianity is the truth... I am actually not quite sure. There are so many different stories out there.

Quote:
Since I know some one will ask, God does not answer non-believers, he has no obligation to them.

Just like a parent doesn't have any obligation to an unruly child.

Is it too much to ask that you at least be consistent?
Tornado_Creator
Postulate
Tornado Creator: would you prefer the discussion I mentioned earlier via PM, in a new thread, or in this thread?


Whichever you prefer.


Okay, I'll start off right here.

To begin:

What currently causes your state of disbelief?
Postulate
Okay, I'll start off right here.

To begin:

What currently causes your state of disbelief?

This sounds promising. May I participate?
Ratreoz
Postulate
Okay, I'll start off right here.

To begin:

What currently causes your state of disbelief?

This sounds promising. May I participate?


Go for it - the more the merrier.

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum