Heaven or Hell 2008 - Go to the guild

[Ebag The II]

Hmmm.

[Michael Noire]

Psychofish

So if you write well and don't play cheap, you can get away with more. Yeah, I know it happens on Gaia, it's the difference between people having a healthy respect for a characters capability and accusing it of being "cheap".

It's something that works more in that sort of environment than one with "players" though. To an extent it's still true, but I think that there's a level comparative to their surroundings where people need to learn that it's time to start cutting back, or start leveling things out, in a player environment.

Anthon Noire

i suggest people try to build a 250 point character on this website.

www.electricferret.com/fpl

you may find your character is extremely difficult to fit into 250 points.

Body Armor: 20
Detective: 45
Iron Will: 25
Slicing Attack Weapon: 20
Sword Master: 20
Tactician: 20

Total: 150

At most, maybe 25 in Berserker as well, for 175. At most.

you must have dead average stats across the board then.

[themightyjello]

250 points?

Martial Arts: Superior - 45 points
Martial Supremacy: Superior - 50 points
Sword Master: Standard - 20 points
Acrobat: Superior - 45 points
Spider Climb: Superior - 50 points
Thermal Vision: Standard (not really, but a close enough category) - 20 points

Decay: Supreme - 75 points
Healing: Ultimate - 100 points

230 w/o real powers, 405 with highest applicable levels of both. This being on a character I consider to be overpowered, and thusly avoid using either.

Tried to fit in everything on there that was applicable.




Now for a real character...

Detective: Supreme - 70 points
Tactician: Superior - 45 points
Closed Mind: Standard - 20 points
Projectile Attack Weapon: Standard - 25 points

160 points.

[ragingtofu]

So... we're justifying our characters through a points system on another site instead of through personal skill and reasoning, now? Sweet.

*Breakfast.*

[Ebag The II]

...So a character with no powers can easily make it under 250. xd

[Michael Noire]

Ebag The II

...So a character with no powers can easily make it under 250. xd

sort of... if you count in skills and some basic attributes above "dead average" you still end up way into the 150+ range.

taking martial arts for example doesn't seem to do anything unless you take something else (high strength, or mastery for example). Weapon skills also require a weapon/attack form, so something looking like 25 points is actually closer to 50. If you want it to be effective, its probably another 10-20 points.

Being "fast" or having multiple attacks is 10-20 points, and having a willpower higher than a mall rat typically costs 20-75 points as well.

This exercise was to remind us that many abilities we take for granted would put us way over the top - allowing us to reassess how powerful we might really be compared to each other.

[ragingtofu]

Anthon Noire

taking martial arts for example doesn't seem to do anything unless you take something else (high strength, or mastery for example). Weapon skills also require a weapon/attack form, so something looking like 25 points is actually closer to 50. If you want it to be effective, its probably another 10-20 points.

Being "fast" or having multiple attacks is 10-20 points, and having a willpower higher than a mall rat typically costs 20-75 points as well.

It seems to me that it's really up to the person to balance out their character and decide if they're too powerful or not. Given a general fight, anyone should be able to beat anyone in a fair arena, abilities, powers, magic, or not.

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but I don't think numbers should decide if your character is any good or not, or if you're good at an RP fight. Obviously someone who's a master of everything and refuses to lose a fight either by sheer overwhelming powah or by more annoying means, such as not taking a hit or just ignoring it, won't gain any respect from his or her fellow RPers and will just generally be ignored. Someone who may be "stronger" than their opponent but concedes defeat in a battle will gain or at least maintain the respect of others.

I completely lost where I was going with this. This is why I shouldn't post anything right after I wake up.

[Michael Noire]

ragingtofu

Anthon Noire

taking martial arts for example doesn't seem to do anything unless you take something else (high strength, or mastery for example). Weapon skills also require a weapon/attack form, so something looking like 25 points is actually closer to 50. If you want it to be effective, its probably another 10-20 points.

Being "fast" or having multiple attacks is 10-20 points, and having a willpower higher than a mall rat typically costs 20-75 points as well.

It seems to me that it's really up to the person to balance out their character and decide if they're too powerful or not. Given a general fight, anyone should be able to beat anyone in a fair arena, abilities, powers, magic, or not.

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but I don't think numbers should decide if your character is any good or not, or if you're good at an RP fight. Obviously someone who's a master of everything and refuses to lose a fight either by sheer overwhelming powah or by more annoying means, such as not taking a hit or just ignoring it, won't gain any respect from his or her fellow RPers and will just generally be ignored. Someone who may be "stronger" than their opponent but concedes defeat in a battle will gain or at least maintain the respect of others.

I completely lost where I was going with this. This is why I shouldn't post anything right after I wake up.

for many a lot of this seems like a bunch of intangible crap. My character was rejected on that point thing because I used one sentence to describe the sub aspects of the same ability. The pages long background explaining the origin of each power didn't count for d**k. I also saw some of the profiles and many seemed like space filler. In some cases, they began every sentence with their character name.

I find if you have to use four sentences to describe what can be comprehended in one, it means you lack intelligence.

artificial example:

Background excerpt: Bob had his soul ripped out in 1984 in a bad deal with Mephistopheles.
Power: Soul Theft Immunity
Description: Bob has no soul.


complex example:

Background excerpt: Ancient masters believe part of the path of the zen master is obliterating the mind, the aspect of the lower self through techniques of Self realization. Thus anyone who has attained the true status of a Zen master does not have a mind construct or its lower adherents such as emotions.
Power: Immunity: Mind Control
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Emotion Control
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.
Power: Immunity: Telepathy
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Empathy
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.

real life example:

Background excerpt: John had his right leg blown off in Vietnam
Power: Immunity - everything
Limitation: applies to leg only

[themightyjello]

Anthon Noire

This exercise was to remind us that many abilities we take for granted would put us way over the top

Seems to me the 'exercise' was the opposite of that.

You can have 12 different powers and not go over that 250 points. The only times you ever really get up there is when you have two or three in the Supreme to Ultimate range, or five or six in the Superior range.

Any character with a single powerset would easily stay under 250. Even characters we'd consider overpowered would duck under your cap; while at the same time 'well rounded' characters would go over.

Anyone who has no powers but uses a variety of weapons and tactics would end up with several hundred points because they're required to take attributes to even have weapons, and to be good with them they need to take two or three other skills as well.

[themightyjello]

Anthon Noire

complex example:

Background excerpt: Ancient masters believe part of the path of the zen master is obliterating the mind, the aspect of the lower self through techniques of Self realization. Thus anyone who has attained the true status of a Zen master does not have a mind construct or its lower adherents such as emotions.
Power: Immunity: Mind Control
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Emotion Control
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.
Power: Immunity: Telepathy
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Empathy
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.

A Zen Master is in a coma.

[Michael Noire]

themightyjello

Anthon Noire

This exercise was to remind us that many abilities we take for granted would put us way over the top

Seems to me the 'exercise' was the opposite of that.

You can have 12 different powers and not go over that 250 points. The only times you ever really get up there is when you have two or three in the Supreme to Ultimate range, or five or six in the Superior range.

Any character with a single powerset would easily stay under 250. Even characters we'd consider overpowered would duck under your cap; while at the same time 'well rounded' characters would go over.

Anyone who has no powers but uses a variety of weapons and tactics would end up with several hundred points because they're required to take attributes to even have weapons, and to be good with them they need to take two or three other skills as well.

you are absolutely right.

me thinks characters should be bought with something more exponential.



having 1000 different guns for example is really just 1 gun with options

having 6 different blackbelts is a lot like having one black belt with an extra rank or two.

and money should be measured in figures and titled "savings" or "income". eg. 6 figures. If income, add a few figures for cost.

[ragingtofu]

Anthon Noire

I find if you have to use four sentences to describe what can be comprehended in one, it means you lack intelligence.

So people who enjoy filling out their history and like to explain the background of their character, their abilities, and why they have them are morons, then. I guess enjoying writing in a literary format and having fun is silly of me. RP is SERIOUS BIDNESS.

On the other hand, a complete lack of description allows you an overly broad scope of what you can do. If a zen master has no mind and no emotions, then he can't feel pain, which means that he's not affected in combat until his body literally just stops working - more than enough time to take nigh-inconceivable amounts of damage before more or less saying "okay done" and having him fall over.

[Michael Noire]

themightyjello

Anthon Noire

complex example:

Background excerpt: Ancient masters believe part of the path of the zen master is obliterating the mind, the aspect of the lower self through techniques of Self realization. Thus anyone who has attained the true status of a Zen master does not have a mind construct or its lower adherents such as emotions.
Power: Immunity: Mind Control
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Emotion Control
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.
Power: Immunity: Telepathy
Description: a Zen Master has no mind.
Power: Immunity: Empathy
Description: a Zen Master has no emotions.

A Zen Master is in a coma.

thats why we always see them sitting down with their eyes closed and talk about bliss.

[Michael Noire]

ragingtofu

Anthon Noire

I find if you have to use four sentences to describe what can be comprehended in one, it means you lack intelligence.

So people who enjoy filling out their history and like to explain the background of their character, their abilities, and why they have them are morons, then. I guess enjoying writing in a literary format and having fun is silly of me. RP is SERIOUS BIDNESS.

On the other hand, a complete lack of description allows you an overly broad scope of what you can do. If a zen master has no mind and no emotions, then he can't feel pain, which means that he's not affected in combat until his body literally just stops working - more than enough time to take nigh-inconceivable amounts of damage before more or less saying "okay done" and having him fall over.

you are correct. Unfortunately, the common zen master portrayal actually includes your assessment of "nigh-inconceivable amounts of damage" so you have proven the message was communicated correctly.

Sometimes less is more.

message less: i have a gun (which kind?)...i can fly (airplanes?), i can teleport (what, how far, how often?)... my father is a jedi (who?)... i have a lot of money (define a lot of money)

message more: i have a nuke. i can ressurect myself. my father is Darth Vader. I am a billionaire.

[themightyjello]

Sword Mastery: Superior - 45
Thrown Objects: Standard - 20
Marksman: Superior - 50
Martial Arts: Standard - 20
Slicing Attack Weapon: Superior - 50
Thrusting Attack Weapon: Standard - 25
Bashing Attack Weapon: Superior - 50
Projectile Attack Weapon: Standard - 25
Concussive Attack Weapon: Superior - 50
Body Armor: Superior - 45
Vehicle: Standard - 25

So... your basic army man. Rifle, clubbing with rifle, sidearm, a grenade or two, knife, body armor, and we'll even give him a little jeep to zip around camp in.

400 points.