Who Goes to Heaven?

[GO-YAFFA]

I know it's not my place to judge others, but I always wonder sometimes, what happens to those who don't believe in Jesus? Say like someone who lives in some remote village and never got the chance to know Jesus. Do they go to heaven? Or what about the Dali Llama who devotes his life to working for peace? Does he go to heaven? My teacher, who was a nun, told me that those who may have not know Jesus may get into heaven depending on how they lived. What do you think?  

[sunshinehearttrob]

i dont know about the rest but i do know that for those who never got to know Jesus and the Lord because they were never introduce to Him lets say, do get a chance in heaven. and never introduce doesnt mean doesnt have the time for, but really never know that the Lord exist, like the isolated kind or something.

i dont know personally what they are judged on to get into heaven. but i do know they get a shot at it.  

[DeanWinchester]

"He who believes in me shall never die but have eternal life."

Jesus says that.
Although, I still believe that the Israelites were God's chosen people. Are God's chosen people.


But, not to be a jerk about the Catholic faith, so please don't take it like this as I say as a general statement: Catholics tend to put more into actions and words and deeds than in the actual faith itself.

Jesus died for your sins.
If you live life in such a way that you try and have checks and balances, you just spit in Jesus's face. In saying that you're not good enough to get into heaven unless you do X and Y and A and F, then you just told Jesus his sacrifice for you was worthless.

I'm not saying don't try to be a good person.
But HE WHO BELIEVES SHALL NEVER DIE.

Not, He who does the most good shall never die.

There is a difference.

But, I don't know who goes to heaven.
Which is why I'm not God, and isn't it a nice thought that we don't have to worry about that? That we don't have to try and keep track of that?

I think that is one thing that we was Believers ( and non-believers) should just let go of. WE are not God, we will never know what he's thinking or what His plans are. So, Let it go. Let that burden fall on God, as of it is his.

"Judgement is mine and mine alone" or something very like that. Perhaps it is revenge or something. I'm sorry to misquote, but still. God. Not us.  

[dirtdevilgrunt13]

I believe if you live a good life, and in a sense you dont know the Lord, but people like that have the Lord working in there lives. Yes, they will be able to go to heaven.  

[Metanoeo]

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) All people are accountable to God whether they have "heard about Him" or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23).  

[GO-YAFFA]

DeanWinchester

"He who believes in me shall never die but have eternal life."

Jesus says that.
Although, I still believe that the Israelites were God's chosen people. Are God's chosen people.


But, not to be a jerk about the Catholic faith, so please don't take it like this as I say as a general statement: Catholics tend to put more into actions and words and deeds than in the actual faith itself.

Jesus died for your sins.
If you live life in such a way that you try and have checks and balances, you just spit in Jesus's face. In saying that you're not good enough to get into heaven unless you do X and Y and A and F, then you just told Jesus his sacrifice for you was worthless.

I'm not saying don't try to be a good person.
But HE WHO BELIEVES SHALL NEVER DIE.

Not, He who does the most good shall never die.

There is a difference.

But, I don't know who goes to heaven.
Which is why I'm not God, and isn't it a nice thought that we don't have to worry about that? That we don't have to try and keep track of that?

I think that is one thing that we was Believers ( and non-believers) should just let go of. WE are not God, we will never know what he's thinking or what His plans are. So, Let it go. Let that burden fall on God, as of it is his.

"Judgement is mine and mine alone" or something very like that. Perhaps it is revenge or something. I'm sorry to misquote, but still. God. Not us.

I have to agree with you on the Catholic thing. I usually go to church every Sunday but I missed two Sundays because of trips and whatnot. I told one of my Catholic friends and he said "you have to go to confession." And we had a talk about that in my religion class. Some older Catholics get mad if you fon't go to church. But as my pastor says, It better to live out one sermon than to just "hear" ten.

I also know I can't judge people because I am not God but sometimes I wonder. There is a place in the Bible that says God's thoughts are not like our thoughts.  

[GO-YAFFA]

Reformed Baptist

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) All people are accountable to God whether they have "heard about Him" or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23).

But what if you were never tought about Jesus?  

[Spartan1989]

GO-YAFFA

Reformed Baptist

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) All people are accountable to God whether they have "heard about Him" or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23).

But what if you were never tought about Jesus?

I heard a story that there was a group of missionarys who went to a remote island and they asked the natives if they had ever heard of jesus Christ the son of God. And they said that they kinew that there was a man sent to save all humanity but they didnt know the name of this man. They said they knew this by nature.

Second, we have to blame our ancestors. When our ancestors where scatterd at the tower of Babel they knew full and well who the real God was but yet they abandoned the Lord for idols. So God already has revealed himself to every race of man before.  

[aTerraxia]

I believe you are held accountable for what you know. Little kids that die young go to heaven.

But yeah, Grace not works. Big nay-nay on Dali-llama. We talked about this just early, I don't feel like going to get my bible to reference it, but at one points it says The best of man's work is but dirty rags to God.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Romans 2: 12-16 states that

Quote:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

If you look at the first sentence, a double standard is set up. One is for those 'under' the law (which, we can reasonably assume, means those who are Christians, were Christian, or know about Christianity and it's tenets in more than just a superficial way) and one for those who are 'apart' from the law (which, we can reasonably assume, is those who have never heard of the tenets of Christianity). While those who are under the law are 'judged', and, thusly, given the option of being damned (to hell) or saved (in heaven), those who are apart from the law are only going to 'die'. Since G-d's judgment is upon the soul, as the body has already perished, we can take this to mean that the soul itself simply dies. No damnation, no salavation.

Also, later on in this passage, we see that, when a non-Christian does 'by nature things according to the law', then their soul will defend itself against the damming nature of their damming 'thoughts' (which we can assume to be either/both a record of their sins and/or their conscious personality). This part of the passage makes no mention of being apart or under the law, so we can assume that it applies to all those who aren't Christian. Also, while their soul will act as a defense, appealing to G-d, there is no guarantee one way or another as to their eternal fate, as we also know that "The wages of sin is death" and that "No one comes to the Father except through [Jesus]".

Another relevant passage is Romans 7: 7-13 which states that:

Quote:

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."[a] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

As we can see, apart from the law, sin is dead, which could be interpreted as saying that, since those who are apart from the law have no way of knowing their sin as sin, they cannot be held accountable. The author (who I think was Paul) even says that, before he came under the Law, he was 'alive' because he knew not what sin was. This suggests that there is a sort of double standard for sins, those that one knows is a sin, and those that one doesn't know as a sin. I also assume that this applies to Christian's as well, as they are to be judged on actions that they may not know are sins as well (as we aren't perfect, and don't fully know the law of G-d).

And proof from that statement Spartan1989? It seems highly unlikely.  

[Spartan1989]

Cometh The Inquisitor

Romans 2: 12-16 states that

Quote:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

If you look at the first sentence, a double standard is set up. One is for those 'under' the law (which, we can reasonably assume, means those who are Christians, were Christian, or know about Christianity and it's tenets in more than just a superficial way) and one for those who are 'apart' from the law (which, we can reasonably assume, is those who have never heard of the tenets of Christianity). While those who are under the law are 'judged', and, thusly, given the option of being damned (to hell) or saved (in heaven), those who are apart from the law are only going to 'die'. Since G-d's judgment is upon the soul, as the body has already perished, we can take this to mean that the soul itself simply dies. No damnation, no salavation.

Also, later on in this passage, we see that, when a non-Christian does 'by nature things according to the law', then their soul will defend itself against the damming nature of their damming 'thoughts' (which we can assume to be either/both a record of their sins and/or their conscious personality). This part of the passage makes no mention of being apart or under the law, so we can assume that it applies to all those who aren't Christian. Also, while their soul will act as a defense, appealing to G-d, there is no guarantee one way or another as to their eternal fate, as we also know that "The wages of sin is death" and that "No one comes to the Father except through [Jesus]".

Another relevant passage is Romans 7: 7-13 which states that:

Quote:

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."[a] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

As we can see, apart from the law, sin is dead, which could be interpreted as saying that, since those who are apart from the law have no way of knowing their sin as sin, they cannot be held accountable. The author (who I think was Paul) even says that, before he came under the Law, he was 'alive' because he knew not what sin was. This suggests that there is a sort of double standard for sins, those that one knows is a sin, and those that one doesn't know as a sin. I also assume that this applies to Christian's as well, as they are to be judged on actions that they may not know are sins as well (as we aren't perfect, and don't fully know the law of G-d).

And proof from that statement Spartan1989? It seems highly unlikely.

Actualy cometh, Chriistians are the ones who are set apart from the law. We have Christ so we arnt judged by the law. The law is the tutor that leads us to Christ. All the law is is a Device used to show man that they need a savior. The Law is the Ten commandments and all the other old testament commandments. We are all guilty of of breaking Gods commandments.

"Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them
Paul is saying that it might not be written down for the Gentiles but our hearts have the law imbedded into it with reason. We know what is right and what is wrong.


I believe in Romans 7 when Paul was talking about how he was a part from the law because he didnt know sin, he
was meaning he didnt fully understand the law. he thought he was perfect. he kept the law perfect on the outside but he didn't Understand that coveting in your heart was a sin and once he understood that then he says he was dead in sin. And this is what the pharisees Did not understand.

And I Do believe that people who Do not know of Chrisianity go to hell because before Christianity was even a belief Jesus talks about The parable of the Rich man. The Rich man Didnt Give lazarus anything and so when he died he went to hell. it doesnt say if the Man knew the Law or if he didn't.  

[Metanoeo]

Cometh The Inquisitor

While those who are under the law are 'judged', and, thusly, given the option of being damned (to hell) or saved (in heaven), those who are apart from the law are only going to 'die'. Since G-d's judgment is upon the soul, as the body has already perished, we can take this to mean that the soul itself simply dies. No damnation, no salavation.

As we can see, apart from the law, sin is dead, which could be interpreted as saying that, since those who are apart from the law have no way of knowing their sin as sin, they cannot be held accountable. The author (who I think was Paul) even says that, before he came under the Law, he was 'alive' because he knew not what sin was. This suggests that there is a sort of double standard for sins, those that one knows is a sin, and those that one doesn't know as a sin. I also assume that this applies to Christian's as well, as they are to be judged on actions that they may not know are sins as well (as we aren't perfect, and don't fully know the law of G-d).

What!? That sounds quite unorthodox to me Cometh The Inquisitor. No damnation, no salavation?

Since Spartan1989 has already posted the proper understanding of Romans 2 & 7. So I'll just add this passage into the debate.

Romans 1:18-25 (ESV)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

Here Apostle Paul is addressing about the "Law of Nature" doctrine, meaning God has shown all men in their minds of His "invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature" showing them that He is the Creator. So they are without excuse. But yet they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator. So the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. Those who do not worship YHWH, the Creator, will face the wrath of God.

Well done Spartan1989.  

[GO-YAFFA]

Sieg Reyu.2

I believe you are held accountable for what you know. Little kids that die young go to heaven.

But yeah, Grace not works. Big nay-nay on Dali-llama. We talked about this just early, I don't feel like going to get my bible to reference it, but at one points it says The best of man's work is but dirty rags to God.

I've read that too.  

[Arachibutyrophobic]

GO-YAFFA

I know it's not my place to judge others, but I always wonder sometimes, what happens to those who don't believe in Jesus? Say like someone who lives in some remote village and never got the chance to know Jesus. Do they go to heaven? Or what about the Dali Llama who devotes his life to working for peace? Does he go to heaven? My teacher, who was a nun, told me that those who may have not know Jesus may get into heaven depending on how they lived. What do you think?

blueprints for the black market...

♥
that, I can honestly say, is something you have to ask God yourself.
If anyone tells you anything, it's only their opinion.
Seriously.
I don't like to believe that someone who's never been given a chance to know Him goes to hell,
But I really don't know that for sure.
All I know is that God is the only one who can judge and He's right.

...anberlin

Donate your extra tickets? Them's mighty appretiated!