A question about Catholicism . . .

[Kittey-chan]

Berezi

that_fairy

Does God punish children for the sins of their parents?
-here's a better question: Do I belive a loving, benevolant God would do that?
And my answer is: NO!
There is such a thing as consequences- when a parent has a disease, they might pass it on to their children. Sure. But God is not going to punish children for things that were not thier own fault. God lays the blame where it belongs, no? So us not being in Eden is a consequence of Adam and Eve, but not a punishment.
I mean, how many our our parents have sinned? (answer: all of them). Does God punish you for that? How fair would you feel that to be? And isn't God a just God? So how would you feel about being punished for a *very distant ancestor*?

Original sin is dogma. Christians have no place for blind dogma; all it can do is blind us to what we need to be seeing- God.

Hon, we're all born with a sinful nature. We all sin. Of course if God punishes us it's not because of Adam and Eve, it's because of our own sin. But we all sin.

And also, since when do we determine what God views as just? God is loving and just, but it's His ballpark. He gets to decide the rules, not us. I say that because sometimes what we view as fair isn't what God views as fair.

Hey, I didn't say we were sinful- only God isn't sinful. However I dont buy into Original sin (see many earlier posts in this thread to see why thats even an issue). I think we all have plenty of our own sins.
I think perhaps you are not realizing which point of view I am argueing?  

[Berezi]

that_fairy

Hey, I didn't say we were sinful- only God isn't sinful. However I dont buy into Original sin (see many earlier posts in this thread to see why thats even an issue). I think we all have plenty of our own sins.
I think perhaps you are not realizing which point of view I am argueing?

Ah. Sorry. I'm a bit more in agreeance with you than I originally thought.

But my one question still stands: since when does God's sense of justice match ours all the time? I ask because it seems like what you think of as justice is what God thinks of as justice by default ("how fair would you feel that to be?" kind of questions give me that impression). If that's a misinterpretation, I do apologize and the question will be dropped promptly.  

[Kittey-chan]

Berezi

that_fairy

Hey, I didn't say we were sinful- only God isn't sinful. However I dont buy into Original sin (see many earlier posts in this thread to see why thats even an issue). I think we all have plenty of our own sins.
I think perhaps you are not realizing which point of view I am argueing?

Ah. Sorry. I'm a bit more in agreeance with you than I originally thought.

But my one question still stands: since when does God's sense of justice match ours all the time? I ask because it seems like what you think of as justice is what God thinks of as justice by default ("how fair would you feel that to be?" kind of questions give me that impression). If that's a misinterpretation, I do apologize and the question will be dropped promptly.

Mmm, no; asking why I feel that my sense of justice would line up with God's is a fair question.
Well, we're all flawed. So no, I'm not going to be 100% accurate all the time; prolly not even 80%. I accept this. But at the same time, I think there are some basic stuff that we can generally see ok. Being able to distinguish loving, fair behavior is something that shouldn't be too difficult.
I think that would be unfair because A: I would feel jilted and upset if it was done to me and B: I would never do that to someone else. Thus far, God has never done anything that seemed truly unfair, that I have seen. He's done some things that upset me- poverty, pain, ect., but those upset me because I am human and mortal. He's not. He has a different, more long-term view of things. He knows what people need, even if its something they don't want. And he knows that pain will eventually end, and something will have changed in the person as a result.
I'm not talking about that sort of thing. I'm talking about sin, which is something that affects us permanently. I would never punish one child for something that was the fault of another; why would I think God would? I would never purposefully hurt someone I loved; why would God do that?
I think there are some basic principles of fairness that anyone can discern.  

[Berezi]

that_fairy

Mmm, no; asking why I feel that my sense of justice would line up with God's is a fair question.
Well, we're all flawed. So no, I'm not going to be 100% accurate all the time; prolly not even 80%. I accept this. But at the same time, I think there are some basic stuff that we can generally see ok. Being able to distinguish loving, fair behavior is something that shouldn't be too difficult.
I think that would be unfair because A: I would feel jilted and upset if it was done to me and B: I would never do that to someone else. Thus far, God has never done anything that seemed truly unfair, that I have seen. He's done some things that upset me- poverty, pain, ect., but those upset me because I am human and mortal. He's not. He has a different, more long-term view of things. He knows what people need, even if its something they don't want. And he knows that pain will eventually end, and something will have changed in the person as a result.
I'm not talking about that sort of thing. I'm talking about sin, which is something that affects us permanently. I would never punish one child for something that was the fault of another; why would I think God would? I would never purposefully hurt someone I loved; why would God do that?
I think there are some basic principles of fairness that anyone can discern.

That makes a bit of sense. I do see where you are coming from, and that makes a bit more sense to me. The one thing I'd urge you to be careful about is saying that anyone should be able to discern a few basic principles. Morality does have many common grounds, I'll give it that, but there are always those few people who don't see those basic things. And then, even people who see that justice can be very subjective about who gets it. Think about the race issues in the 1900's in America. Whole families could get hurt because of one person's mistake and often were hurt for it. However, if a white family recieved the same treatment, it was instantly picked up on as injust. However, these same people freely and sometimes joyfully inflicted that injustice on someone black. We humans sometimes ignore justice so that we can inflict harm on those we are afraid of or something else. God's justice never does that.

Either way, I think you get the point that God's justice is far better than ours.

And don't forget that even in the pain God never leaves His children.