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 Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:12 pm
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Beorc Kano Quote: I read everything. But I can't tell why you're equating existence with God. And which God? Because, in all the instances I've seen where one attempts to define the Creator, by defining the Creator, they impose limits and boundaries. Saying that "This is what the Creator IS and this is what the Creator IS NOT." I feel that to limit the creator is to attempt to define the undefinable. To limit the unlimited. To add boundaries to the boundless. Many people state that, without their god/gods, then Humanity wouldn't exist. That their god/gods created everything in existence. Thus, everything relied upon said Creator to exist. Thus, the Creator is existence. Note; I use Creator as a neutral term to refer to a Divine Sentience. I don't follow any god as defined by a culture... Any culturally defined god has limits imposed by said culture.
Why is it impossible for a divine sentience to create everything and not also have its limits?
Quote: Quote: Interesting. Are you training under anyone to be a shaman? Unfortunately, no. I take what little I know, and expand upon it as I feel led to via intuition or inspiration. I have more or less eschewed teachers, preferring instead to study and learn what I can without having the strictures of the associated religions and traditions forced down my throat as well. Likely why the Asatru didn't like me very much...
Wait a minute...you are working with shamanisms that have distinct cultural contexts. How are you then practicing something that is completely divorced from them? What if the strictures involve purity laws or common sense recommendations that help you not to hurt yourself or others? |
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:21 pm
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Beorc Kano Note that I did say that I don't believe I have it entirely right. To me, something with the ability to create the entirety of existence, which, to my perceptions, has no limits of time nor space, should likewise have a similar lack of limits.
Wouldn't this also be an example of someone imposing a description onto a God? Your conception of deity is but one way to understand deity. To try and impose this onto other cultures and then say nobody knows fully what they're talking about smacks of privilege. If you don't have it entirely right then why couldn't someone of a specific culture have communion with their god/s and get it right?
Quote: Quote: Wait a minute...you are working with shamanisms that have distinct cultural contexts. How are you then practicing something that is completely divorced from them? What if the strictures involve purity laws or common sense recommendations that help you not to hurt yourself or others? Note; the aspects of Native American Shamanism that I incorporate into my belief system are somewhat basic and rather generic; Herbalism, drumming, chanting, and spirit communion. Note that I did not state that I was communing with the Spirit of the Great Apache Ancestors, or with Grandfather himself, or anything like that... the practices (as I have understood them) are simple methods for communicating with that which exists on a different level of existence than we do.
If chanting is generic, what language are you doing it in? With what theological understandings? None of this would have anything to do with the belief systems of whatever tribe you're working with?
Quote: The common sense recommendations are pretty much across the board... "Don't summon the Dark Angel Lucifer into yourself. It's a bad idea." "Unleashing the spirits of the Greek Titans is likely not going to be a good thing." etc. etc. etc. These sorts of knowledges take a common sense that (in my opinion) should be universal. A certain common sense (as applied to my particular situation) would be to not be disrespectful to the spirits to which I am communicating, if I do decide to do such a thing. Fairly common sense.
So it's not disrespectful to ignore the spirits' wishes when it comes to purity standards. Hmm.
Quote: As for purity laws... I find such things to be culturally imposed... I don't see that the spiritual cares too terribly much about the physical.
Because your experience should be universal for every culture's deities.
Quote: It's the condition of the mind and the spirit that are most prominently looked over, and one can have a pure mind and a pure spirit no matter the cultural context. For example... if a Norseman ate pork, does it make him unclean and impure simply because the Jewish faith saw the act of eating pork as unclean? Maybe according to their {b}cultural definition of the Divine, but, when you remove the cultural definitions (and thus the religion) from That Which Is, things become much much simpler.
I'm not just talking about physical purity.
If a person doesn't shower/bathe with natron, that's not my problem. If they choose to do that and call upon Sekhmet, I won't be responsible for the stupidity that follows. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:33 pm
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Beorc Kano A good example would be the comparison of certain racial slurs. If a shaved head southern man were to walk up to my best friend (who is 75% black) and say, "Hey, ******!" there would certainly be an offense. However, when I approach him, and we greet each other, I have been known to say, "My *****! Whassup!" The cultural difference of the two interactions makes all the difference in the world.
There's no ******** cultural difference. It is not ok for a white person to call a black person ******.
That's a ******** great example of how your white privilege is making it impossible for you to see how you might be misappropriating a practice from other cultures that now you are saying you haven't really participated in or worked with when it comes to shamanism, as well as showing how you don't see the difference between saying all existence is God, and belittling other culture's sacred beliefs in order to fit your seemingly arbitrary schema of what deity is. If I continue speaking with you I may just continue with curse words. I will stop and direct you to the announcement that says "Read this," which you obviously haven't, as well as this, and ask you to really and thoroughly acquaint yourself with what privilege is and how it is influencing your practice. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:23 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:50 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:42 pm
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Marie Bellamy Merry meet. =]
I'm Nichole, but I liked to be called Marie ( my middle name ), and I'm sixteen - going on seventeen this year. I was raised as an Episcopal, though I never believed fully that there was the one and true God.
I have no particular set Tradition, but I'm learning as much as I can in Wica ( or is that a Tradition? ).
Um...yeah - what else do I need here?
Welcome~
Wica is a set of traditions. Stuff like Gardnerian, Alexandrian, 1734, Blue Star, Majestic, etc. All bear lineage to Gardner or a member of the New Forest coven.
I studied under a Gardnerian coven for several months before deciding that the solitary spiritual journey was for me. I felt like I was forcing myself to conform to a religion rather than doing what *actually* speaks to me. According to some people, I fall under "Wicca" but I generally refer to myself as a solitary eclectic neopagan.
I hope you find what you are looking for in this guild~ |
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:32 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:58 pm
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StillBored123 Jeanak Hi. I'm...Jeanak, and I'm interested in learning more about...well, paganism in general so far. And the astral. Um, yes. I'm kind of limited, being only 15 and living in a rather conservative household. Fluff Meter: 9/10 Dido this... except 14. Almost 15 though! smile Oh and I don't live in a very conservative household my parents are pretty cool... Its my grandparents who are er more closed off. Heh...Yeah. OH! I almost forgot. I'm Katelyn or Stillbored.
So are there any particular areas that interest you, or are you looking for a more general overview of the wide world of paganism? |
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:00 pm
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AvalonAuggie StillBored123 Jeanak Hi. I'm...Jeanak, and I'm interested in learning more about...well, paganism in general so far. And the astral. Um, yes. I'm kind of limited, being only 15 and living in a rather conservative household. Fluff Meter: 9/10 Dido this... except 14. Almost 15 though! smile Oh and I don't live in a very conservative household my parents are pretty cool... Its my grandparents who are er more closed off. Heh...Yeah. OH! I almost forgot. I'm Katelyn or Stillbored. So are there any particular areas that interest you, or are you looking for a more general overview of the wide world of paganism?
Wide world, please? |
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:57 pm
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Okay! I'll try not to be too rambly.
Well for starters, you posted in the books thread about availability. One book I highly recommend as general information is Joyce and River Higginbotham's Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions. It's a good overview that's heavy on philosophy, systems of belief, science and ethics, basically describing ways that various Pagan religions view the world. This is a good foundation to have, since there's an astonishing variety to be found under the Pagan umbrella. I've seen it at both Borders and Barnes and Noble so it should be available. I was actually able to find a copy in my library system.
Basically, Pagan religions are defined (broadly) as any religion that is not Abrahamic, that is Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Beyond this you get into the mess of prefixes, where "Neo-Pagan" narrows the field, excluding things like Hinduism to focus on religions with a more modern origin, and this label is often applied to pagan religions with noticeable New Age influence. |
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:17 pm
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AvalonAuggie Okay! I'll try not to be too rambly. Well for starters, you posted in the books thread about availability. One book I highly recommend as general information is Joyce and River Higginbotham's Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions. It's a good overview that's heavy on philosophy, systems of belief, science and ethics, basically describing ways that various Pagan religions view the world. This is a good foundation to have, since there's an astonishing variety to be found under the Pagan umbrella. I've seen it at both Borders and Barnes and Noble so it should be available. I was actually able to find a copy in my library system. Basically, Pagan religions are defined (broadly) as any religion that is not Abrahamic, that is Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Beyond this you get into the mess of prefixes, where "Neo-Pagan" narrows the field, excluding things like Hinduism to focus on religions with a more modern origin, and this label is often applied to pagan religions with noticeable New Age influence.
Woo! A book I can find! I see a trip to the library to see if it is there coming! smile
I see, I kept getting confused with that, I used to think that Pagan was like something that was older than Wiccan.
-throughs that research out the window- |
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