The Skaven

[Shinobi_8745]

BoLS rumours (is more in depth back at the under-empire)

There are foul tidings on the fetid winds that emanate from Skavenblight: Chittering teeth in the darkness say:

The old Skaven book has the following CORE units:

Clanrats
Skavenslaves
Stormvermin
Swarms
Nightrunners
Giant rats
Poisoned Wind Globadiers

Now, with the exception of Globadiers, all can be put in ranks and they are all core.

Rumoured mount options are:
Grey Seer - Screaming Bell
Plague Priest - Plague Furnace, Giant Rat
Warlord - Rat Ogre, Giant Rat, Litter/Throne of some type
Mounts are only for characters and Nurglitch will be used a lot both as a Warlord and a Plague priest.

Ikit Claw will be a spellcasting nightmare, and good in combat to boot. He will be able to use all the Skaven spells or any of the normal 8 lores.

Deathmaster does indeed have a dagger in his tail!


SiN is in.
+1" flight remains.
Skaven may still decline challenges and use LD for the unit.
Life is Cheap is only for slaves.

Vermin Lord is back
Doom Wheel is back
Seer LD7
Assassin is a hero choice
Warplock pistol or muskets for all characters

Clanrats: 4 points.
Nightrunner: 7 points, no skirmish, one movement before the battle starts, two hand weapons and throwing stars included, LD:6 (9 with full ranks).
Stormvermin: 7 points with halberds and option for shields, S:3, 25 point magic items for the champion.
Rat swarms are non 0-1 and 25 pts each.

Rat Ogres: 40 points, plus 8 points for each handler. Frenzy, champion WS:4, A:4.
Master Moulder is a kind of unit champion with LD 6, no mixed units with Rat-ogres and giant rats.
Jezzails: S:6.
Gutter Runner: 6+ ward save.
Plague Monks: no poison.

Hellpit Abomination: is in and quite potent.
Plague Furnance: giant censor pushed by plague monks, impact hits and gas.
Warp-lightning Cannon: fires like a standard cannon with a 3" template at the very end of the line, strength still random, no armor save, D6 wounds, crew doesnt have to flee, LD 7, @90 points

5 different weapon teams
-Ratling
-Warpfire thrower
-Poisoned wind mortar, similar to globadiers
-Hand to hand weapon team with impact hits and additional attacks
-Warpdrill to tunnel for Eshin units (conflicting info)

13 different spells, 6 for Warlocks, 6 for Plague priests.
D3 warpstone tokens for every mage at the start of the game.
Warp lightning does only d6 hits and 1 still hits the caster
Spell to stop fliers
Spell for -1 BS to all enemy shooting

"13th Spell", casts on a 25+, cannot be augmented with bonus dice. Target unit suffers 3d6 wounds, no saves allowed. Any survivors are replaced with clanrats.

Plague Furnace is a mount for a plague lord/priest. It is said to works like a Cauldron of Blood, giving a bonus like poisoned attacks or frenzy to nearby units, whilst nearby Pestilens units gain either Hatred or possibly Stubborn. (conflicting info)

Plague Catapults are S:2, no armour save, 5" template and the target unit must take a panic test if wounded.

Storm banner is like the old one except it runs out at 4+. Which I think is probably better than before.  

[Shinobi_8745]

Just putting in some thoughts on the new skaven book.

It plainly sucks... Yet I love it.
It's badly written, bad wording etc, but it's still a fun army to play, but I wouldn't mind that FAQ to hurry up, the doomwheel is weird as it is, the slaves are fuzzy and so are some unit upgrades (gutter runners and globadiers coming into mind, same with warlock engineers).

But overall, it's a damn lovely written when it comes to fluff and such, cheap models and a strong character in it since you can make armies for all greater clans now, sadly there's no non-special character Lords for the greater clans, you must have Throt to use giant rats as core-core and Skrolk for pestilience troops, but I don't care since I love special characters. :B  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

Shinobi_8745

Just putting in some thoughts on the new skaven book.

It plainly sucks... Yet I love it.
It's badly written, bad wording etc, but it's still a fun army to play, but I wouldn't mind that FAQ to hurry up, the doomwheel is weird as it is, the slaves are fuzzy and so are some unit upgrades (gutter runners and globadiers coming into mind, same with warlock engineers).

But overall, it's a damn lovely written when it comes to fluff and such, cheap models and a strong character in it since you can make armies for all greater clans now, sadly there's no non-special character Lords for the greater clans, you must have Throt to use giant rats as core-core and Skrolk for pestilience troops, but I don't care since I love special characters. :B

I rather enjoy the new characters in contrast to the almost nonexistant special characters of last edition. Though I do sorely miss the "Life is Cheap" rule...  

[Shinobi_8745]

Just use more slaves! That's what I do anyways, but I tend to kill more slaves than the enemy... But that matters not to me!

Oh, just to mention, I used the Verminlord he first time against beastmen the other day, never really got to use him apart from casting the dreaded 13th spell on a unit of minotaurs and transformed them into clanrats in the first turn, and got a lucky hit on the beastman BSB and killed him in the 1st turn as well with a lucky hit from my warpfire thrower.

Nothing really went bad either, the horned rat smiled upon me I must say! Only lost one unit completely, which was my plaguemonks.  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

How many points was the game you played with the Verminlord in it? I've got nothing against him myself, I just tend to prefer Thanquol and Boneripper if it's not above 2250.

And I'm not too keen on the slaves for the simple fact I run 3 heroes and a lord, all spellcasters so the blocked LoS and the risk of putting them in the units with Cornered Rats doesn't appeal to me so much anymore.  

[Shinobi_8745]

2000 points.

Just wondering, all-magic-heavy? What's the fun with that? Magic system is broken as it is already in Warhammer. XDDD

Blocking LoS is never a problem for me, smart manouvering helps alot with that, but I do admit it can be a bit messy when one use 8+ units... :'3

And why would anyone ever want to put characters in slave units? That's suicide! Slaves are there for konga-lining, I never get below 16 hits when I go kaboom! <3  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

I guess the magic heavy list is just personal preference, but it's not like I'm going plague priests and such for some of those nasty plague spells. I'm going Warlock Engineers mostly because I just find it fun to play those guys. Not to mention rolling as many dice as I am rolling for magic, someone's gotta explode. xD

Also, you are right, magic is broken, and part of what I'm doing having so many spellcasters in the army is to counteract that sort of cheese with better cheese, Skaven cheese.

Oh, what's your opinion on the new Doomwheel?  

[Shinobi_8745]

Doomwheel is messy, because it doesn't mention at all how it works with charges and whatnot, so all the FAQ's I've seen till now which I use says that you declare charges with them like normal units (ie. you have to see the unit you charge etc), but you wait untill the compoulsary movement phase to move it.

Even though it uses those rules it's totally wort the 150 points, and since it's not a chariot and rather a monster it's a good unit, unless someone comes and cast beast cowers on it... But I've seen my doomwheel hold off flanks by itself several times, I barely ever go to war without one, and I'm getting a 2nd one (previous model) next week, so I can't wait to field 2 doomwheels at the same time!


Might as well try an abomination sometime though, but I have only fallen for the giant rats when it comes to moulder units so far... <3  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

I always figured the simplest way to let the Doomwheel charge was to declare it, since it does move like a chariot "save for these conditions" or however they worded it. Some people try to make it off like the Doomwheel can't charge because they didn't specify that it can... Still, if I could weasel the points out I'd want two of them myself. xD

I haven't put too much stock in the Abomination, mostly because it's a bit too close quarters for my current setup. After a while, when I can get together a good cqc setup, then I'll look into it. But I hear it's beastly if they don't hit it with flaming attacks.  

[Shinobi_8745]

Abombs are truly one-man armies I must say! Being able to get 3D6 S6 attacks is nothing to be taken lightly! I've seen them take care of armies all by itself, and I don't joke when I say that I saw one taking down a hydra as well! And being able to give it magic resistance gives it more help against fire-based spells, and dwarfs are normally the only ones to be using flaming attacks on it otherwise due to runes... I really hate beard-things... D:  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

You know, I've been meaning to ask, how in the world does The Beast Cowers work on a Doomwheel? I understand the poor classification of roles in the book, but aside from visual differences, there's at least one thing that sets a Doomwheel apart from Monsters; the fact that it has a crew stat. Even with the Dark Elf War Hydra, the Beastmasters are counted as separate models, or a Monstrous Mount, where you have to randomize hits. Simply having a crew sets it closer to a War Machine by rules, but since it isn't classified as one, it does tend to fall between the rules for a Chariot and a Monster.

Regardless, I would say that using The Beast Cowers on a Doomwheel is the equivalent of using it on an Empire Steam Tank or a Dwarf Gyrocopter, they don't really have regular unit classifications, but they aren't Monsters just because they have no other category to fall under.  

[Shinobi_8745]

Well... the doomwheel is powered by ordinary rats in a big wheel.


The Dwarf gyrocopter and steamtank states that they're counted as warmachines I think, I know that a steam tank is anyways.  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

Shinobi_8745

Well... the doomwheel is powered by ordinary rats in a big wheel.


The Dwarf gyrocopter and steamtank states that they're counted as warmachines I think, I know that a steam tank is anyways.

Fraid not, neither is explicitly referred to as a war machine, though the unit entry for the fluff of the Doomwheel at least calls it an engine of war.

Not only that, just because it's driven by rats doesn't make it targetable by the Beast Cowers, as the crew are core, not beasts or cavalry. It still doesn't technically count as a chariot. I'd check it out a little more thoroughly, the "single model" thing technically counts it as a monster, but the crew part and the fact it's not technically a single model, only counted as one due to the crew not having separate bases, make it something else.  

[Shinobi_8745]

This is indeed a big discussable topic, but by zooming through various tournament forums, gaming clubs and such the majority of them find the doomwheel to be a monster, but they also do say that it's unclear.

Anyways, discuss this with your opponent pre-battle, and if you can't agree then roll-off to see what it counts as.

Another question that rise up is the unit strength of the doomwheel if it indeed is not a monster (same goes for the plague claw and warp lightning cannon), also when it comes to screaming bells and plague furnaces, they're not monsters or chariots, I assume that the wounds is counted towards it's unit strength, that's how the majority of the Skaven players handle it though, which could count it as a "monstrous" mount.

I just want the new Skaven FAQ now...  

[Xenephale Fairfeather]

Shinobi_8745

This is indeed a big discussable topic, but by zooming through various tournament forums, gaming clubs and such the majority of them find the doomwheel to be a monster, but they also do say that it's unclear.

Anyways, discuss this with your opponent pre-battle, and if you can't agree then roll-off to see what it counts as.

Another question that rise up is the unit strength of the doomwheel if it indeed is not a monster (same goes for the plague claw and warp lightning cannon), also when it comes to screaming bells and plague furnaces, they're not monsters or chariots, I assume that the wounds is counted towards it's unit strength, that's how the majority of the Skaven players handle it though, which could count it as a "monstrous" mount.

I just want the new Skaven FAQ now...

Well, I'm going to say in the case of the Doomwheel, it moves as a chariot, has the US relative to a monster, but for balance purposes with spells and rules, counts as a war machine for purposes of targeting, like with The Beast Cowers, but I'm more than willing to let a Doomwheel under half it's wounds count as "Below half strength." The plageuclaw and lightning cannon are easily defined as war machines due to the Ponderous War Machine rule.

As for the Furnace and Bell, I suppose you would work the US out based at least partly on the fact that it adds rank bonuses as if it were "counted as the same number of models it would displace." While this doesn't technically define the US, for purposes of combat res it does give them the equivalence of 15 man-sized models. Don't you just love how ridiculous this all gets?
*goes back to reading the rules for Blood Bowl*