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Total Votes : 70


ioioouiouiouio

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:55 pm
Siren of Saturn Wrote:
True...
*agrees that people can be very stupid and let things go too far...-_-*
*but there must also be the realization that Harry Potter is a door that your cracking open to more dangerous things.*

Doing anything (even reading the Bible) can be construed as 'a door that your cracking open to more dangerous things'. I would know, since my reading of the Bible has, on more than one occassion led me to doubt christianity. If we are paralyzed with fear to the point of inaction, then it just shows a lack of trust in God. That is to say, if God is so weak to us that we let blatant fiction sway our convictions in God, then we had no convictions in the first place.

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But why should we as christians even entertain something like harry potter when it so plainly deals with things that goes against everything that Christ stands for?

Worse than anything you\'ll find in Harry Potter.

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I think this has gone beyond it being a book...it's gone to the point where we as christians have become so desensetisized*sp??* to something so plainly evil. -_-. It's not Harry potter that makes me sad...
it's that.
I think it makes God sad too smilies/icon_sad.gif

But we haven't been desensitized to 'evil'. We have always had and accepted fiction that involves magic. Just look at King Arthur and the Round Table. Not to mention Shakespeares plays. It would be different if it were trying to portray Harry Potter's world as reality, but the fact is that it's not.  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:56 pm
Berezi Wrote:
In a loving manner, of course.

That I love you does not mean that I agree with you. I thought that that was implied.  

ioioouiouiouio

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SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:49 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Wrote:

Easily. There a boatloads of people out there that easily let fantasy alter their perception of reality and the majority of them had preexisting conditions (mental conditions, low-self esteem that caused the fantasy to be used as a sort of escapism, etc.) that allowed the fantasy to work it's way from being a harmless book to becoming a worldview.

As has been stated earlier in this thread, 'stupid people will do stupid things no matter what you give them as a medium for their stupidity.'

In short, blame the person, not the book.
Exactly.

And with those kinds of people, if it isn't Harry Potter, it will be something else.

The funny thing is that I actually hate Harry Potter. I think the books are rather stupid, and certainly highly overrated, and yet I'll fight to the death for people to be allowed to read them. Mostly because I find the idea that a book can be "evil" is so ridiculous. Books, in and of themselves, are neither good nor evil. And if one thinks that Harry Potter is evil, I shudder to think what that person will do when they have required reading with things like Les Fleurs du Mal, Frankenstein, Voltaire, Cocteau, or even something like The Great Gatsby.

All of which I believe have contenet far more controversial and "evil" than Harry Potter.  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:55 pm
[quote="Siren of Saturn"]
Quote:
*but there must also be the realization that Harry Potter is a door that your cracking open to more dangerous things.*
Life is a door that you're cracking open to more dangerous things. The conversations you'll have with people throughout your life will probably challange your faith far more than any fantasy book.

Quote:
But why should we as christians even entertain something like harry potter when it so plainly deals with things that goes against everything that Christ stands for?
Because it doesn't go against everything Christ stands for.

The problem with people is that they take what's on the surface of something and go mad with it, but never go any deeper. Granted, Harry Potter doesn't have a whole lot of depth to it, but at its core, it's a story about the battle between good and evil. Is that not a very Biblical concept?

Yes, it has magic and witchcraft and imperfect (i.e. human) characters that are used to weave the story, but when it comes down to it, it's about people fighting a force of great evil. What's more Christian than that?


Quote:
I think this has gone beyond it being a book...it's gone to the point where we as christians have become so desensetisized*sp??* to something so plainly evil. -_-. It's not Harry potter that makes me sad...
it's that.
I think it makes God sad too smilies/icon_sad.gif
Harry Potter has desenitised us to evil?

Really? 'cause I didn't get the memo. Harry Potter just isn't "evil." Because it's a book.

But that doesn't mean that I'm blind to other great wrongs in the world, just because I've read Harry Potter and not thought it was the spawn of all things satanic.  

SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar


Siren of Saturn

Siren of Saturn's avatar

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:36 pm
*Please excuse the confusing quote boxes and such*
Quote:
*but there must also be the realization that Harry Potter is a door that your cracking open to more dangerous things.*[/quote
Quote:
]Life is a door that you're cracking open to more dangerous things. The conversations you'll have with people throughout your life will probably challange your faith far more than any fantasy book.

Life isn't an option. You are born into life. You have no choice to live. You are born. You have a choice to read harry potter or not. And yes...you are right that conversations will challenge you. Believe me..i've had plenty. God brings you into situations where He wants you to talk with someone. What light would you bring into the world by entertaining your thoughts by reading harry potter?

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But why should we as christians even entertain something like harry potter when it so plainly deals with things that goes against everything that Christ stands for?
Quote:
Because it doesn't go against everything Christ stands for.

Quote:
The problem with people is that they take what's on the surface of something and go mad with it, but never go any deeper. Granted, Harry Potter doesn't have a whole lot of depth to it, but at its core, it's a story about the battle between good and evil. Is that not a very Biblical concept?

Yes, it has magic and witchcraft and imperfect (i.e. human) characters that are used to weave the story, but when it comes down to it, it's about people fighting a force of great evil. What's more Christian than that?

It's a battle between a "good" evil and a "bad" evil. Still evil in the end. You can't put something in the grey zone. Which is exactly what harry potter is.


Quote:
I think this has gone beyond it being a book...it's gone to the point where we as christians have become so desensetisized*sp??* to something so plainly evil. -_-. It's not Harry potter that makes me sad...
it's that.
I think it makes God sad too smilies/icon_sad.gif
Quote:
Harry Potter has desenitised us to evil?

Really? 'cause I didn't get the memo. Harry Potter just isn't "evil." Because it's a book.


I suppose your denying the power that Saten can have. Would you play with a wegi board? It's only a board game....
You read cards...they have spells. Only one has dice and the other a lot more words.

Quote:
But that doesn't mean that I'm blind to other great wrongs in the world, just because I've read Harry Potter and not thought it was the spawn of all things satanic
.


I realize this. And whoever does is simply foolish.  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:53 pm
Siren of Saturn Wrote:

Life isn't an option. You are born into life. You have no choice to live.
Sure you do. You always have the power to kill yourself, do you not? All moral battles regarding suicide aside, you do have the choice to continue living or not. If you really don't want to live, you can OD on heroin. It's not even that unpleasant of a way to go, I'd imagine.

Quote:
And yes...you are right that conversations will challenge you. Believe me..i've had plenty. God brings you into situations where He wants you to talk with someone. What light would you bring into the world by entertaining your thoughts by reading harry potter?
What light will you bring to the world by eating your favourite food for dinner?

Not every single thing you do has to have some greater purpose.

Quote:
It's a battle between a "good" evil and a "bad" evil. Still evil in the end. You can't put something in the grey zone. Which is exactly what harry potter is.
Why can't you put something in a grey zone?

Nothing is completely good or completely evil. If you can't see that, I pity you, for that's an extremely judgemental and simple-minded view of the world to have.

Not to mention...Harry Potter is fictional. The magic is not real. It's there to make the story mroe interesting. The existence of magic portrayed in a fictional way...I don't see how that makes the overall theme somehow "bad," even when it's a good theme.

Out of curiousity, do you think that Shakespeare's MacBeth (Excuse me, "The Scottish Play") is evil as well? What about works like the Iliad and the Odyssey? Those have magic and/or pagan beliefs included in them, but are considered great works of literature and are often required in many schools. Are they evil as well, or is it just Harry Potter, because it gets so much publicity?

Quote:
I suppose your denying the power that Saten can have. Would you play with a wegi board? It's only a board game....
You read cards...they have spells. Only one has dice and the other a lot more words.
So Harry Potter, a series of books, are satanic?

They're going to lead me into the deepest depths of Hell because I read them on a flight from London to New York to kill time?

Quote:
I realize this. And whoever does is simply foolish.
Then why did you suggest it in the first place?  

SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar


divineseraph

divineseraph's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:00 pm
to all those who say that harry potter will corrupt your mind and send you to hell- read some george carlin. growing a pair wouldn't hurt either.  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:46 am
SinfulGuillotine Wrote:
Siren of Saturn Wrote:

Life isn't an option. You are born into life. You have no choice to live.
Sure you do. You always have the power to kill yourself, do you not? All moral battles regarding suicide aside, you do have the choice to continue living or not. If you really don't want to live, you can OD on heroin. It's not even that unpleasant of a way to go, I'd imagine.

Quote:
And yes...you are right that conversations will challenge you. Believe me..i've had plenty. God brings you into situations where He wants you to talk with someone. What light would you bring into the world by entertaining your thoughts by reading harry potter?
What light will you bring to the world by eating your favourite food for dinner?

Not every single thing you do has to have some greater purpose.

Quote:
It's a battle between a "good" evil and a "bad" evil. Still evil in the end. You can't put something in the grey zone. Which is exactly what harry potter is.
Why can't you put something in a grey zone?

Nothing is completely good or completely evil. If you can't see that, I pity you, for that's an extremely judgemental and simple-minded view of the world to have.

Not to mention...Harry Potter is fictional. The magic is not real. It's there to make the story mroe interesting. The existence of magic portrayed in a fictional way...I don't see how that makes the overall theme somehow "bad," even when it's a good theme.

Out of curiousity, do you think that Shakespeare's MacBeth (Excuse me, "The Scottish Play") is evil as well? What about works like the Iliad and the Odyssey? Those have magic and/or pagan beliefs included in them, but are considered great works of literature and are often required in many schools. Are they evil as well, or is it just Harry Potter, because it gets so much publicity?

Quote:
I suppose your denying the power that Saten can have. Would you play with a wegi board? It's only a board game....
You read cards...they have spells. Only one has dice and the other a lot more words.
So Harry Potter, a series of books, are satanic?

They're going to lead me into the deepest depths of Hell because I read them on a flight from London to New York to kill time?

Quote:
I realize this. And whoever does is simply foolish.
Then why did you suggest it in the first place?


Because the grey zone will be what destroys us. My spirit hurts because i know God hurts at the fact that you don't have the ability to see what is clearly right and wrong.
6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
And i know for a fact that harry potter has made children stumble. If you would like to argue with what the passage says, talk to God about it. And if you say "well, little kids shouldn't be reading harry potter", harry potter shouldn't be avaible to little children. And if you would like to blame the parents, then i guess we need some milstones. Would you let your child, if you had one, read harry potter?
Why can't we call a spade a spade and say something is wrong. No, because it will offend someone?
I do believe Jesus Christ offended people! And i for one will not stand back and say "it's alright" when i know souls are being lost because of it.
I've had plently of people not like me, and i've never been popular. But if being what the world calls "popular" would mean degrading not only my morals but relationship with God...
Then i should be the one with the millstone.  

Siren of Saturn

Siren of Saturn's avatar


Berezi

Berezi's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:13 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Wrote:
Berezi Wrote:
In a loving manner, of course.

That I love you does not mean that I agree with you. I thought that that was implied.
Yeah, that's what I figured. But it's always good to double-check given how ambiguous text conversations like this can be.

Siren - some things in this world ARE completely wrong. Others ARE gray. By the way, when you explicitly quote scripture, please tell us what book it is from and what chapter, as well as the verse number.

For example - murder, meaningless sex, hatred, apathy towards the poor, things like that - they're completely wrong.

Things like drinking alcohol on occasion, watching certain movies - they're a little more gray, in the sense that God tells people different things about them. Some people feel convicted that drinking is wrong. Others don't. That's perfectly alright. Some feel convicted that watching all R Rated movies is wrong. Others would say that it really depends on whether or not the objectionable content has any greater purpose or whether or not the movie is intended to relay something other than "oh, look, gratuitous sex, violence, and cursing!" That's perfectly alright, too. We just have to be respectful of our fellow believers when we engage in these activities - if a Methodist wants to have a little wine for dinner, that's great, but not if they've got a Baptist over. (Yeah, I know, not all Methodists drink and not all Baptists don't, but it's a sterotype being used to make a point).  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:22 pm
Berezi Wrote:
Cometh The Inquisitor Wrote:
Berezi Wrote:
In a loving manner, of course.

That I love you does not mean that I agree with you. I thought that that was implied.
Yeah, that's what I figured. But it's always good to double-check given how ambiguous text conversations like this can be.

Siren - some things in this world ARE completely wrong. Others ARE gray. By the way, when you explicitly quote scripture, please tell us what book it is from and what chapter, as well as the verse number.

For example - murder, meaningless sex, hatred, apathy towards the poor, things like that - they're completely wrong.

Things like drinking alcohol on occasion, watching certain movies - they're a little more gray, in the sense that God tells people different things about them. Some people feel convicted that drinking is wrong. Others don't. That's perfectly alright. Some feel convicted that watching all R Rated movies is wrong. Others would say that it really depends on whether or not the objectionable content has any greater purpose or whether or not the movie is intended to relay something other than "oh, look, gratuitous sex, violence, and cursing!" That's perfectly alright, too. We just have to be respectful of our fellow believers when we engage in these activities - if a Methodist wants to have a little wine for dinner, that's great, but not if they've got a Baptist over. (Yeah, I know, not all Methodists drink and not all Baptists don't, but it's a sterotype being used to make a point).


Matthew 18:6. And i can't say i've ever heard those jokes...my dad is the one usually making jokes about baptists. He's pentacostal...and i go to a methodist church. But we all go to a fundemental church together. He's very picky with those things. But i understand what your saying...and thank you for saying it in a respectful manner. I makes me sad and angry to see people who hardly see anything wrong with anything. Harry potter is just the tip of the ice burg. It's making your "religion" a relationship. And with that, i don't think harry potter should be a part of the relationship.  

Siren of Saturn

Siren of Saturn's avatar


SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:02 pm
Siren of Saturn Wrote:
Because the grey zone will be what destroys us. My spirit hurts because i know God hurts at the fact that you don't have the ability to see what is clearly right and wrong.
Wait...what?

Just because I don't think Harry Potter is the root of all evil, now I can't tell the difference between right and wrong? First of all, that is a ridiculously judgemental and unchristian thing to say, and second of all....how the hell do you presume to judge my morals based on the fact that I happen to be very against book banning? Seriously. Grow up.

And no, grey zones will not destroy us. Stop being so bloody naive. I'll use an example, okay?

So. Murder is wrong, yes? It's an evil thing. Taking the life of another human being is something that evil, horrible people do. Right?

Well, yes, but. There's a "but."

Let's say that a mother and her young child are assaulted on the street. The assaulter is holding a gun to the child's head. The mother hits the man over the head with her purse, killing him. (It was a heavy purse, okay?)

Yes, this woman killed a man. But she probably didn't mean to kill him, and she only did what she did to save her child. What would you do if you found yourself in her situation? Can we really say that this woman committed an evil act?

Please tell me you see the grey area.

Quote:
6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
And i know for a fact that harry potter has made children stumble. If you would like to argue with what the passage says, talk to God about it. And if you say "well, little kids shouldn't be reading harry potter", harry potter shouldn't be avaible to little children. And if you would like to blame the parents, then i guess we need some milstones.
I'm not blaiming anyone. And I'm not saying that little kids shouldn't be reading Harry Potter, either.

Quote:
Would you let your child, if you had one, read harry potter?
Actually, yes. I do have a child, and he has read Harry Potter. He's not worshipping Satan. *shockgasp*

Quote:
Why can't we call a spade a spade and say something is wrong. No, because it will offend someone?
I'm not concerned with offending people.

It's just that a book in and of itself isn't evil.

Quote:
I do believe Jesus Christ offended people! And i for one will not stand back and say "it's alright" when i know souls are being lost because of it.
It's a rather pointless battle. I honestly think that you should "just say no" to some much more important problems in our world, rather than getting in a tizzy over a bloody series of children's books.

Quote:
I've had plently of people not like me, and i've never been popular. But if being what the world calls "popular" would mean degrading not only my morals but relationship with God...
Then i should be the one with the millstone.
Congratulations? Do you want a cookie?

And you never did answer my question: Do you also think that books like MacBeth, The Iliad, The Tempest, and loads of other great works of literature should be banned and burned just because they involve magic, paganism, and other "non-Christian" things?

Should children not learn about ancient history because many ancient cultures worshipped many gods and believed in certain magical things? Should be just teach our children history starting with the beginning of Christianity and pretend the rest of it never happened? All books revealing otherwise should be destroyed?

Because I don't know about you, but that is way too Allegory of the Cave-ish for my tastes. Nothing is more dangerous than thought control, and destroying and banning people's written thoughts (i.e. books) is the first step in that terrifying direction. I'd rather live in a society that's corrupt but educated than a society full of robotic, cultivated zombies.

I don't think you fully realise the implications of book-banning. Not only do I think it's stupid, but it's also extremely, extremely dangerous.  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:29 pm
Siren of Saturn Wrote:


Matthew 18:6. And i can't say i've ever heard those jokes...my dad is the one usually making jokes about baptists. He's pentacostal...and i go to a methodist church. But we all go to a fundemental church together. He's very picky with those things. But i understand what your saying...and thank you for saying it in a respectful manner. I makes me sad and angry to see people who hardly see anything wrong with anything. Harry potter is just the tip of the ice burg. It's making your "religion" a relationship. And with that, i don't think harry potter should be a part of the relationship.


I've grown up Baptist, so many around me don't drink on principle. I'm also Romanian by heritage, and they all drink anyway. In fact, alcohol is usually used in communion there.

I agree that it's really sad when people say that nothing is absolutely wrong. But I also think that it's sad when people feel everything has to be right or wrong. Some things simply aren't black or white.

I would like to ask this question - do you engage the world around you often? I ask because fundamentalists are, at least historically, separatists, and I wonder how you can be a light to the world when you disengage it completely.  

Berezi

Berezi's avatar


Siren of Saturn

Siren of Saturn's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:26 pm
Berezi Wrote:
Siren of Saturn Wrote:


Matthew 18:6. And i can't say i've ever heard those jokes...my dad is the one usually making jokes about baptists. He's pentacostal...and i go to a methodist church. But we all go to a fundemental church together. He's very picky with those things. But i understand what your saying...and thank you for saying it in a respectful manner. I makes me sad and angry to see people who hardly see anything wrong with anything. Harry potter is just the tip of the ice burg. It's making your "religion" a relationship. And with that, i don't think harry potter should be a part of the relationship.


I've grown up Baptist, so many around me don't drink on principle. I'm also Romanian by heritage, and they all drink anyway. In fact, alcohol is usually used in communion there.

I agree that it's really sad when people say that nothing is absolutely wrong. But I also think that it's sad when people feel everything has to be right or wrong. Some things simply aren't black or white.

I would like to ask this question - do you engage the world around you often? I ask because fundamentalists are, at least historically, separatists, and I wonder how you can be a light to the world when you disengage it completely.

No, i don't get to. I'm homeschooled but even when i did go to school, i was often a loner. I talk to a lot of people online...and i actually did something good in one girl's life because of it.

and sinful, your right. This is a petty battle of words. We can really ask God when we go to heaven. I'm more conserative, your french. There's nothing wrong with that but that will make our "debate" endless and pointless. But i will say i've taken time to look at your profile and learned more about you. Which will make this debate all the more pointless. *end rant*.
Also please stop acting like i'm a baby "grow up. What are you like, 5?". One thing i at least try to do while debating is show respect. I think it's the more mature thing to do.
And i'm taking latin. I've had to read a lot of mythology for school.*take a hint where i learned about my screen name from...Siren of Saturn.* It wasn't a choice, but i've never read Mcbeth or The Tempest.
Let's not make history repeat itself all over again.  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:48 pm
Siren of Saturn Wrote:

No, i don't get to. I'm homeschooled but even when i did go to school, i was often a loner. I talk to a lot of people online...and i actually did something good in one girl's life because of it.
In that case, I think you should stay open to the idea that you'll probably change a lot once you get out of your little bubble.

I was raised in a pretty sheltered environment, and my life and world views changed drastically when I got out into the real world a little more.

Just something to be aware of.

Quote:
and sinful, your right. This is a petty battle of words. We can really ask God when we go to heaven.
Indeed.

Quote:
I'm more conserative, your french. There's nothing wrong with that but that will make our "debate" endless and pointless.
Huh?

I'm French, and that means...what, exactly? Is this about freedom fries or something?

Quote:
But i will say i've taken time to look at your profile and learned more about you. Which will make this debate all the more pointless. *end rant*.
Again, what precisely are you trying to say?

Quote:
Also please stop acting like i'm a baby "grow up. What are you like, 5?". One thing i at least try to do while debating is show respect. I think it's the more mature thing to do.
Well, saying that I had no sense of right and wrong because I don't agree with you on a fairly petty issue was rather childish.

But I apologise. And for the record, I never said you were five. That was someone else on another thread.

Quote:
And i'm taking latin. I've had to read a lot of mythology for school.*take a hint where i learned about my screen name from...Siren of Saturn.* It wasn't a choice, but i've never read Mcbeth or The Tempest.
Let's not make history repeat itself all over again.
So are you against those things being included in a child's education?

My point is that once you open the door by banning Harry Potter, that sets a precident that gets very Orwellian.

You want to know something funny? I don't even like Harry Potter. I think it's highly, highly overrated.

But book-banning scares the living daylights out of me.  

SinfulGuillotine

SinfulGuillotine's avatar


shalollipop

shalollipop's avatar

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:30 pm
I think Harry Potter is not bad.J.K Rowling has an active imagination.I've read the Harry Potter series and I've found nothing wrong with it.
It's fantasy and it's not real,so what's the problem?  
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