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 Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:54 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Sure go ahead and dig-up what you had. And I did state before, I will do my best to follow what HE was writen, and if I do find that the what, how many verses he mentions it to be worng, incorrect, I will change my views based upon HIS word. Thank you by the way for taking my thoughts and bashing them, I did not say children need a male and female father to make them 'not be gay' they need them to nurture them proparly.
http://www.whosoever.org/bible/
This is a site that addresses the verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality. Mind you, it's quite obvious that this organisation has a vendetta to get homosexuality accepted in the Christian faith and should be taken with a grain of salt (as should anything regarding translation, as it's often extremely subjective), but it does point out some interesting things about the original Greek and Hebrew used in the Bible. Also, take a look at the thesis on homosexuality in the Bible that is posted on the first page of this thread. In brings up some excellent points about language and context.
Quote: So do you plan to live your life based on the hope that GODs word is wrong? Do we now choose what we would like to be okay in God's eyes? And anything else we try to find a random website they will help us with our hope and search to make the sin not so sinnful. You know there are many verses that show us that God frowns upon it, and yet you hope they are all wrong? I need to leave for work in 5min but this afternoon when i get home I'll see how many I can actually dig up. Then go ahead, take them and tell me what he really meant to say.
Which is the root of the problem. Translation is often very subjective.
When he said he don't want
Quote: Correct meaning --> You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. Incorrect--> You shall lie with a man as with a woman; it shall be blessed across the nation.
So tell me, do engage in human contact while on your period? Do you wear blended fabrics? Do you eat seafood? Because if you do any of that, you're sinning just as much as I am when I have sex with my partner, according to Leviticus.
When it comes down to it, I have to live life the best way I know how. We all do. I'll face judgement for my sins, as will you, as will the couple in the apartment next-door to mine. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:56 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:06 pm
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SinfulGuillotine How many times do I have to tell you that homosexuality is not a choice? I'd use another analogy, but you completely ignored the last one I took the time to make. I'm not saying "God creates homos." But it is not a concious choice to be attracted to the same sex, and no amount of praying and meditation can "get you out." Trust me. If there were a way, I would have found it by now. sweatdrop
Sigh, I have to apologize for getting so cranky I'm getting so frusterated on this topic, I guess I'm just to passionate over it. See, I just realized we are 'kind of' on the same page, just different sides of it, if that makes sense.
I actually ready what you had to say and thought about it, and the bottom is what caught my eye.
human contact while on your period?- No, I don't have periods...so I never had to worry
Do you wear blended fabrics?- I didnt know that was a sin, sigh i'll have to read up on that
Do you eat seafood?-Guilty as charged...shushi gonk
Quote: I'll face judgement for my sins, as will you, as will the couple in the apartment next-door to mine.
That's what got me though. Look, I am not trying to be some psycho crazy anti-gay lady who's driving everyone crazy. I just get upset when people try to say "God made me gay" and "It's not a sin"
I won't make you stop, frankly I can't, you are who you are REGARDLESS of what's right or wrong, just like sea-food I guess...
It's so hard to explain- I'm not looking for a "Okay we broke up, and I'm having sex with women now"
More like, "Okay psycho crazy anti-gay lady, I know it's sin but I'm not dumping him over this right now."
It just annoys me when people blame their sin on God. I have gay friends, and I never pressure them, but they know my views.
So if sea-food is bad, and I eat it anyway, it's my deal- as long as I don't say "God made me eat it"...
I mean it is your choice and it's your relationship between you and God... so, let God be the judge of your life... just thanks for being honest... Sorry i ruffled your feathers.
I should go, I have to work on my sea-food issues. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:33 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Sigh, I have to apologize for getting so cranky I'm getting so frusterated on this topic, I guess I'm just to passionate over it. See, I just realized we are 'kind of' on the same page, just different sides of it, if that makes sense.
Quote: I actually ready what you had to say and thought about it, and the bottom is what caught my eye. human contact while on your period?- No, I don't have periods...so I never had to worry Do you wear blended fabrics?- I didnt know that was a sin, sigh i'll have to read up on that Do you eat seafood?-Guilty as charged...shushi gonk
And sushi = heart
Quote: That's what got me though. Look, I am not trying to be some psycho crazy anti-gay lady who's driving everyone crazy. I just get upset when people try to say "God made me gay" and "It's not a sin" I won't make you stop, frankly I can't, you are who you are REGARDLESS of what's right or wrong, just like sea-food I guess...
Quote: It's so hard to explain- I'm not looking for a "Okay we broke up, and I'm having sex with women now" More like, "Okay psycho crazy anti-gay lady, I know it's sin but I'm not dumping him over this right now."
Quote: It just annoys me when people blame their sin on God. I have gay friends, and I never pressure them, but they know my views. So if sea-food is bad, and I eat it anyway, it's my deal- as long as I don't say "God made me eat it"...
Having sex with, or being in a relationship with someone of the same sex/gender is a choice, but the fundemental attraction is not. I did make the choice to have sex with another man. I made the choice to engage in a sexual and romantic relationship with him. I made the choice to live with him. I made the choice to commit to him for the rest of my life. That goes for any relationship. All those things are always choices. But I did not choose to be attracted to men, and to not be attracted to women.
Quote: I mean it is your choice and it's your relationship between you and God... so, let God be the judge of your life... just thanks for being honest... Sorry i ruffled your feathers.
Quote: I should go, I have to work on my sea-food issues.
But....simply because it's silly, godhatesshrimp.com is a rather amusing satire off the gothatesfags site. What a beautiful thing photoshop is. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:47 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:37 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Merc Pip Bernadotte Tezzy Shadenhand Quote: IF big IF there. A Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. Please prove otherwise then. That made no sense, what are you asking me to do? And what do I have to proove, I quoted Gods word, and he made it clear that he frowns on the sin of homosexuality. I keep getting bashed by those who practise gay relationships, and I am told I am wrong. But what am I wrong of? Just because you feel like it should be okay, that doesn't make it okay. Quote: Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. God made you gay? No you did! stressed You allowed yourself to get mixed up into this mess. And only your willingness, with the help of your LORD whom LOVES you can help you out. GOD does not make you sin. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:07 am
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You are getting me so fusterated on this topic I'm having a hard time debating this with anyone!
Merc Pip Bernadotte So I caused my brain to turn me gay? That's not possible.
Read the rest of the conversation. And stop taking my personal comments to try and make me look bad. If you have a point to argue, do so, if not then stop trying to debate nothing. Aside from the one post you made with a bunch of random googled links, you haven't posted anything to proove your point.
Read the rules to the first page... I'm trying to have a debate here on wether homosexuality is sinful, not argue my personal feelings on the issue... here I quoted some of it for you.
Quote: # Do: * Back up your assertions with evidence. * Cite your sources. # Do Not: * Make assertions without evidence.
* Post one-liners.
Please proove to me what I understand you have been trying to tell me, show how God made you gay, and why you believe it's not sinful.
SinfulGuillotine and I already disscussed how you don't choose to be gay, and I admitted how I was wrong to say you do. Know why? He prooved me wrong. So before you continue making random post in an attempt to just aggervate and annoy me find your evidence.
But until then, I have prooved my point, and admitted where I was wrong. Thank you.
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:29 pm
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:28 pm
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:30 pm
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:55 pm
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Babbalui I want to know what every one thinks about this: Do you think that gays, for the most part, choose to be gay, or are they mostly messed up because of an inbalance of chemicals in the brain?
I can dig of scientific studies that support that, if you want them. I'm not going to waste my time if you're not going to read them (or at least skim them), though.
Quote: I have no idea where to stand, but I am highly against gays. 3nodding sweatdrop I get into dozens of arguements in the past few months about this and no one has come out of it with a changed perspective.
Quote: I refuse to even talk with gays. neutral Am I being to harsh on the matter?
Because, y'know, it's so Christ-like to refuse to associate with people because you don't like one aspect of their private life. rolleyes |
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:12 pm
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Babbalui Well, when I say that I refuse to even talk with them, I am exaggerating. I talk with gays on occassion because: 1) I didn't know until I became friends with them. That puts a damper on the friendship. sweatdrop 2) Or i'm arguing with them. 3nodding
THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!111!! rolleyes
Quote: The thing is, not a single gay that I know has any intention of changing, so I just don't bother with them any more. I have honestly tried dozens of times on a single person to get them to go with me to youthgroup or to just listen to what I have to say, but they refuse to hear it. They want to be gay and that is final. sweatdrop I realized lately, from many points of view, most Atheist's believe that being gay is not a choice but something that you are born with and most Christians that I have spoken with agree that it is a choice that the person makes to themselves.
I'm not sure what your idea of fun is, but for most people, getting fired from their jobs, beaten up, called names, spit on, losing respect of friends and family members, etc. isn't exactly on the list of "what makes a really great party."
And, as I mentioned before, I can always dig up some studies if you're not prepared to take my word on it.
Also, sexuality is not something you can change, even if you wanted to. So it's not that homosexuals just refuse to listen to you and refuse to change. They cannot change, regardless of how much they want to. I have psychological studies to back that up too.
Quote: So, I have come to the conclusion that the whole "gay - straight" argument is an almost purely religious conflict. I used to believe that it was a normal "Is it right or wrong" type of argument. Boy, was I wrong! gonk
Which leaves the gay community hating the Christian community, and the Christians community hating the gay community. (Which, trust me, puts me in an awkward place.)
It's extremely detrimental to both parties. |
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:57 pm
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SinfulGuillotine Generally (I'm not saying all - I've met some truly wonderful, compassionate Christians in my day) Christians try to say that homosexuality is a choice so that they can place the blame of the "sin" completely on the homosexuals themselves. It's easier to hate someone if you can say "You chose this!" than to say "I hate you because of how you were born!" Which leaves the gay community hating the Christian community, and the Christians community hating the gay community. (Which, trust me, puts me in an awkward place.) It's extremely detrimental to both parties.
Well, now, this is actually a good jumping in place for me.
We are born as sinful people in general. We don't have to be taught how to lie, manipulate, or hate. These are things we do naturally. We judge, we fear, we do all sorts of things without being taught how. That doesn't make it okay to lie, hate, manipulate, etc.
Why should acting on a homosexual impulse be any different? If it is wrong to act on those impulses, being born a certain way is no excuse for the sin. I do think that's an excuse for having those thoughts, but it is no excuse for acting on them.
I'm studying New Testament Greek right now, so I'm going to discover this issue for myself, and see what I'd translate those scriptures as.
But what is more detestable to me than any sin is hating another person on account of the sin (whether real or percieved). It belittles the cross so much. |
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:03 pm
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Berezi Well, now, this is actually a good jumping in place for me. We are born as sinful people in general. We don't have to be taught how to lie, manipulate, or hate. These are things we do naturally. We judge, we fear, we do all sorts of things without being taught how. That doesn't make it okay to lie, hate, manipulate, etc. Why should acting on a homosexual impulse be any different? If it is wrong to act on those impulses, being born a certain way is no excuse for the sin. I do think that's an excuse for having those thoughts, but it is no excuse for acting on them.
Unless they were experimenting, or veryvery drunk. Or perhaps both.
And being homosexual (and believeing that homosexuality is a sin) also essensially means that you can never be with someone you love, and if you are, you certainly can't be physically intimate with them. You're basically doomed to be alone for your entire life, which is a pretty tragic prospect unless you feel strongly called to the priesthood or something.
Point is, it's not a "sin" that's likely to be committed unless you're one of the 10% (or thereabouts) of the population with sexual attractions to members of the same sex.
Also, as I said, I think it's easier to place blame if you can tell a homosexual "you chose to be that way." And it's easier to be hostile towards someone when you can blame them for the way they are.
Which is why, for me, it's important that people understand that homosexual attractions are not a choice.
Quote: I'm studying New Testament Greek right now, so I'm going to discover this issue for myself, and see what I'd translate those scriptures as.
One of my Jewish friends tried to teach me Hebrew at one point, but I kind of failed at it.
Quote: But what is more detestable to me than any sin is hating another person on account of the sin (whether real or percieved). It belittles the cross so much. |
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