DEBATE!!!! (communism)

[Beautus]

Two questions:

Do you think Communism is good?:
What kid of communism is the best?:
Why do you think its good/bad?:
Why do you think this?:
Where did you get your facts?:

Example,

Do you think Communism is good?: Yes
What kid of communism is the best?: Democratic Republic
Why do you think that type is the best?: Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and leaders like Mao and Stalin are great examples of that.
Why do you think its good or bad?: I think its good because its a solution to racism, chauvinism, poverty, hunger/starvation, and provides many benefits to its people ranging from free heath care to, nationalization of phone industry (free).
Where did you get your facts?: Communist Manifesto, World history class, CPUSA.ORG , Animal Farm, 1983, Various googled pages.

Oh and I will be devils advocate those against it... (mostly everyone I see)  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

well I 'd have to say capitalism is better because at least that doesn't threaten my freedom. the way I see it capitalism offers freedom whilst Communism offers security. and I value freedom more than security. the problem is due to history the two sides are so against compromise.
for example the current economic crisis has been described as the fall of capitalism. I prefer capitalism however I believe certain businesses should never be in the hands of the public and should be in the hands of the government instead. mostly electric, gas, water and telecommunication should be in the governments control. I'm just thankful that my country has an NHS unlike some countries. I had to have an x-ray earlier this week and i recently found out that in america they would charge you an arm and a leg for something as insignificant as that.  

[Beautus]

Jin_of_the_thunder

well I 'd have to say capitalism is better because at least that doesn't threaten my freedom. the way I see it capitalism offers freedom whilst Communism offers security. and I value freedom more than security. the problem is due to history the two sides are so against compromise.
for example the current economic crisis has been described as the fall of capitalism. I prefer capitalism however I believe certain businesses should never be in the hands of the public and should be in the hands of the government instead. mostly electric, gas, water and telecommunication should be in the governments control. I'm just thankful that my country has an NHS unlike some countries. I had to have an x-ray earlier this week and i recently found out that in america they would charge you an arm and a leg for something as insignificant as that.

Communism is just a market system, and in no way, threatens your rights.

The only communism that threatens your rights is a dictatorship, which isn't what a true communism should be, because obviously, power corrupts. That's why a republic democracy of communism would be a great thing, It wouldn't have the fall like capitalism would
(using up all of the worlds resources...)

Other than that Communism in true form, gives you the same rights as the Americas have, except probably now, more rights.
(because in America, the patriot act makes it so we have no rights as citizens anymore, and it makes the first amendment invalid, in times of "Crisis", which is all the time.)

In short, Communism doesn't mean dictatorship, its just that the only real examples of communists provided by capitalists is Stalin and Mao... Two horrible examples of what communism is.  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

first of all I'm not american so a american civil rights and patriot act or whatever doesn't apply to me. and I'm not talking about rights I'm talking about freedom. (maybe i didn't phrase it to well, freedoms probably the wrong word) Communism is about treating people as equals, only problem is that were not equals, maybe equals in the eyes of the law, or even the eyes of a higher power or whatever. but I know there's a lot of people superior to me at the same time i know a lot of people who are inferior to me.

the whole idea of Communism is the entire country working together towards a common goal, thats great if you enjoy the security of being part of a machine, nothing really wrong with that. but its not what I want. I know it sounds cheesy but I like love the american dream. "if you work hard enough you can achieve great things." and that doesn't work if you treat everyone like equals. the truth is we are all individuals and are not equal.  

[Beautus]

Jin_of_the_thunder

first of all I'm not American so a American civil rights and patriot act or whatever doesn't apply to me. and I'm not talking about rights I'm talking about freedom. (maybe i didn't phrase it to well, freedoms probably the wrong word) Communism is about treating people as equals, only problem is that were not equals, maybe equals in the eyes of the law, or even the eyes of a higher power or whatever. but I know there's a lot of people superior to me at the same time i know a lot of people who are inferior to me.

the whole idea of Communism is the entire country working together towards a common goal, that's great if you enjoy the security of being part of a machine, nothing really wrong with that. but its not what I want. I know it sounds cheesy but I like love the American dream. "if you work hard enough you can achieve great things." and that doesn't work if you treat everyone like equals. the truth is we are all individuals and are not equal.

How can you say one human is greater than another, we are all humans, and we are all individuals, and in that sense, on a primitive level, we are all equals. In that case, how can one person be inferior to you. If it is their intelligence, or physical appearance you balk at, saying it is inferior to yours. Is their heart, not bigger than yours, making them superior to you?

Let me give you a hint, security, is but a mere illusion of the mind.

You seriously think that if we are all equal, we cannot achieve great things? That all the great thinkers will vanish, that if we were equal, Socrates and Aristotle, would not have existed? Maybe if we were all equal Malcolm X and Martin Luther wouldn't have came to their political standing, but that would have been because we were already all equal.

In communism, you can do what you love, and be funded by the government for doing great things, allowing more freedom and creativity to achieve great things than you could imagine.

Communism in itself is a great dream, that there could be a day, where there was no-one starving, a dream that there is no such thing as poverty, a dream where everyone can look at one another, and see them for who they really are, than what the color of their skin or their sexuality dictates. A dream where one day, we don't need war to settle disagreements, we could settle them like humans did in Africa before the Zulu attacked.
(They used to have a dance off, a insult battle, and a javelin throwing contest, between men of the villages, while the women sat and watched and decided which of the two were better, the one that was won the war.)  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

were not equal, were judge on what we can do, how we look, how smart we are. at the end of the day what's inside doesn't matter. feelings are just subject. the truth is I don't want to be treated as equals. I want to be treated better than that, so I'm gonna work harder than them to be treated better. you might say that thats not fair but the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. And I think thats fair. if were all equal no matter what we do than what's the point of anything. ambition to become better is gone.  

[Requiem Memories]

Jin_of_the_thunder

were not equal, were judge on what we can do, how we look, how smart we are. at the end of the day what's inside doesn't matter. feelings are just subject. the truth is I don't want to be treated as equals. I want to be treated better than that, so I'm gonna work harder than them to be treated better. you might say that thats not fair but the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. And I think thats fair. if were all equal no matter what we do than what's the point of anything. ambition to become better is gone.

The bassist of Communism isn't a bad concept, no one being poor, no one being rich, everyone equal and on the same level. It's also a matter of including the people who are rich for nothing as well. People have become rich by cheating people out of their money, or inheriting it from their families. Some people deserve it and others don't, but, that is also judgment. Who are we to say someone can have money or not? People are entitled to achieve to be more than what they are; like you said, we are judged on what we can do. However, aren't we only thinking of ourselves in this process? Why don't we ever think:

"Hey, I'm not rich anymore, but someone can eat more and help out their families now, I am content with my lifestyle."

Although, I believe we are incapable of thinking such a way, which is why communism failed. No one can ever be equal, it is impossible. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself and discussing morality now, though, lol.

 

[Beautus]

xCrisisCore

Jin_of_the_thunder

were not equal, were judge on what we can do, how we look, how smart we are. at the end of the day what's inside doesn't matter. feelings are just subject. the truth is I don't want to be treated as equals. I want to be treated better than that, so I'm gonna work harder than them to be treated better. you might say that thats not fair but the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. And I think thats fair. if were all equal no matter what we do than what's the point of anything. ambition to become better is gone.

The bassist of Communism isn't a bad concept, no one being poor, no one being rich, everyone equal and on the same level. It's also a matter of including the people who are rich for nothing as well. People have become rich by cheating people out of their money, or inheriting it from their families. Some people deserve it and others don't, but, that is also judgment. Who are we to say someone can have money or not? People are entitled to achieve to be more than what they are; like you said, we are judged on what we can do. However, aren't we only thinking of ourselves in this process? Why don't we ever think:

"Hey, I'm not rich anymore, but someone can eat more and help out their families now, I am content with my lifestyle."

Although, I believe we are incapable of thinking such a way, which is why communism failed. No one can ever be equal, it is impossible. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself and discussing morality now, though, lol.

Please explain why you think that people can't be treated as equals?

Just wondering.  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Beautus

xCrisisCore

Jin_of_the_thunder

were not equal, were judge on what we can do, how we look, how smart we are. at the end of the day what's inside doesn't matter. feelings are just subject. the truth is I don't want to be treated as equals. I want to be treated better than that, so I'm gonna work harder than them to be treated better. you might say that thats not fair but the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. And I think thats fair. if were all equal no matter what we do than what's the point of anything. ambition to become better is gone.

The bassist of Communism isn't a bad concept, no one being poor, no one being rich, everyone equal and on the same level. It's also a matter of including the people who are rich for nothing as well. People have become rich by cheating people out of their money, or inheriting it from their families. Some people deserve it and others don't, but, that is also judgment. Who are we to say someone can have money or not? People are entitled to achieve to be more than what they are; like you said, we are judged on what we can do. However, aren't we only thinking of ourselves in this process? Why don't we ever think:

"Hey, I'm not rich anymore, but someone can eat more and help out their families now, I am content with my lifestyle."

Although, I believe we are incapable of thinking such a way, which is why communism failed. No one can ever be equal, it is impossible. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself and discussing morality now, though, lol.

Please explain why you think that people can't be treated as equals?

Just wondering.

simple, its because were not equal  

[Beautus]

Jin_of_the_thunder

Beautus

xCrisisCore

Jin_of_the_thunder

were not equal, were judge on what we can do, how we look, how smart we are. at the end of the day what's inside doesn't matter. feelings are just subject. the truth is I don't want to be treated as equals. I want to be treated better than that, so I'm gonna work harder than them to be treated better. you might say that thats not fair but the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. And I think thats fair. if were all equal no matter what we do than what's the point of anything. ambition to become better is gone.

The bassist of Communism isn't a bad concept, no one being poor, no one being rich, everyone equal and on the same level. It's also a matter of including the people who are rich for nothing as well. People have become rich by cheating people out of their money, or inheriting it from their families. Some people deserve it and others don't, but, that is also judgment. Who are we to say someone can have money or not? People are entitled to achieve to be more than what they are; like you said, we are judged on what we can do. However, aren't we only thinking of ourselves in this process? Why don't we ever think:

"Hey, I'm not rich anymore, but someone can eat more and help out their families now, I am content with my lifestyle."

Although, I believe we are incapable of thinking such a way, which is why communism failed. No one can ever be equal, it is impossible. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself and discussing morality now, though, lol.

Please explain why you think that people can't be treated as equals?

Just wondering.

simple, its because were not equal

practically re stating the question is not an explanation.  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

i answered it, we cant be treated as equals because we are not equals. we are all individuals. besides Communism isn't a fair system. a surgeon deserves to earn more money than a janitor, and Communism would have be earning the same amount. thats an example of how were not equal.  

[Beautus]

Jin_of_the_thunder

i answered it, we cant be treated as equals because we are not equals. we are all individuals. besides Communism isn't a fair system. a surgeon deserves to earn more money than a janitor, and Communism would have be earning the same amount. thats an example of how were not equal.

The janitor and surgeon are equal, as are all humans. Its not the job that defines the person, its the heart, mind, and soul that does. Since we all have one, and a conscious, we are all equal. The equal pay system is more a system of rations with benefits, so that everyone can survive, if they work.

You keep equating pay with equality, the equal pay, is just so another person can eat, just like you do.  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

heart, mind and soul? thats not what defines a person. its what they do. they have a good heart? prove it by helping people, they have a good mind? prove it by doing something smart. you can't judge people on their heart and soul because you can't understand another persons heart and soul.
we are judged by what we do.
knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do

anyone can go around and say they have a good heart and have a good soul so how can we judge by that.
if you work harder than somebody else you deserve to get paid more than somebody else. thats fair.

you can't judge somebody for what's in the inside because we don't know what's in the inside. not really. and to be honest how they feel doesn't make much difference as long as they get the job done.

this is kinda stemming away from Communism now, but you can't treat everyone like there equal because the not equal.  

[Beautus]

Jin_of_the_thunder

heart, mind and soul? thats not what defines a person. its what they do. they have a good heart? prove it by helping people, they have a good mind? prove it by doing something smart. you can't judge people on their heart and soul because you can't understand another persons heart and soul.
we are judged by what we do.
knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do

anyone can go around and say they have a good heart and have a good soul so how can we judge by that.
if you work harder than somebody else you deserve to get paid more than somebody else. thats fair.

you can't judge somebody for what's in the inside because we don't know what's in the inside. not really. and to be honest how they feel doesn't make much difference as long as they get the job done.

this is kinda stemming away from Communism now, but you can't treat everyone like there equal because the not equal.

yes this is really straying from the point.  

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

the point is Communism treats everybody equally when in truth we are not equal and its not fair to treat us all the same