Looking for a good prehistoric sounding conlang

[The Archer12]

Quote:

It might pay off to study the Native American languages and get an idea of what they sound like; you might also like to study how languages change over time so you can interpret how the Native American languages might have sounded like 10,000-15,000 years ago.

That is actually part of the plan. My story is about the ultimate melting of two tribes. Each has differing languages. In the end when they finally grow so large that they merge, the two languages become one. It doesn't stop there though, thier religious and spiritual beliefs meld into each other as well as opposing cultural aspects.

It is a multi generational story, where the language, religion and culture are actually charterers in the story to a certain extent. All three go through character development just like the other charterers do.

The ending is when modern man finds the ruins and tries to piece together thier past, and getting it all wrong.  

[spheal 000]

Hmm... I should probably tell you right now that the religion and culture among the Native Americans is relatively similar to each other. Also, if they are situated in the same area then chances are their language might be similar aswell. This, however, can be overcome by situating each tribe on different parts of the continent (i.e. west and east). Or, you can overcome all of these problems by having one group that arrives via watercraft from the pacific islands, and another group who arrives through Beringia and travels through North America to eventually arrive in South America. This would support both theories of how they arrived, and if you merge the two into one then that would support that there is evidence of both arrivals and how we may never know for sure. Also, we could in fact be getting everything wrong, as is mentioned at the end of your story, and there could be some other method of arrival that we in reality don't know about.  

[Homurakitsune]

The Archer12

Wow thanks!! You are turning out to be a real information source!!

Say, I noticed you have several topics on multiple languages, how many did you make anyway?

No probs, when I find something I like to share it if I can. =)

And as far as that... uhm... lemme count. xD Five so far, Niora, Kakàku, Aprë, Ijwe, and the latest one ~§aunwenaß. The reason for this is mainly because I like to experiment, try things out, if I limited myself to only one I wouldn't get to try out so many different ways of doing it or grammatical concepts. (Since a lot of the time what I come up with conflicts with what is already in the language.) Most are only beginnings of languages though, because I often get excited by a new idea and drop something I already made. whee Well, I never fully drop it, I always find myself going back to it, so I'm basically inching along in each one of them instead of working intensly on just one. Niora is by far my most developed, though.

(And always glad to help a new conlanger!)  

[The Archer12]

spheal 000

Hmm... I should probably tell you right now that the religion and culture among the Native Americans is relatively similar to each other. Also, if they are situated in the same area then chances are their language might be similar aswell. This, however, can be overcome by situating each tribe on different parts of the continent (i.e. west and east). Or, you can overcome all of these problems by having one group that arrives via watercraft from the pacific islands, and another group who arrives through Beringia and travels through North America to eventually arrive in South America. This would support both theories of how they arrived, and if you merge the two into one then that would support that there is evidence of both arrivals and how we may never know for sure. Also, we could in fact be getting everything wrong, as is mentioned at the end of your story, and there could be some other method of arrival that we in reality don't know about.

Well basically I am not going to explain it. The story is just that two very different tribes, with very different cultures exist not too far form each other, but not too close either. It's about the very first meeting they have forward.

As for arrival methods, the ocean currents are such that it's not inconceivable for people from Southeast Asia to end up in South America. A fishing party could easily go missing from Indonesia and end up in Uruguay. So long as there were not major storms, even a relatively small boat would just ride the currents there in a month or so.  

[The Archer12]

Homurakitsune

The Archer12

Wow thanks!! You are turning out to be a real information source!!

Say, I noticed you have several topics on multiple languages, how many did you make anyway?

No probs, when I find something I like to share it if I can. =)

And as far as that... uhm... lemme count. xD Five so far, Niora, Kakàku, Aprë, Ijwe, and the latest one ~§aunwenaß. The reason for this is mainly because I like to experiment, try things out, if I limited myself to only one I wouldn't get to try out so many different ways of doing it or grammatical concepts. (Since a lot of the time what I come up with conflicts with what is already in the language.) Most are only beginnings of languages though, because I often get excited by a new idea and drop something I already made. whee Well, I never fully drop it, I always find myself going back to it, so I'm basically inching along in each one of them instead of working intensly on just one. Niora is by far my most developed, though.

(And always glad to help a new conlanger!)

So you are kind of like with languages, like I am with story lines. I have a journal with like 50 ideas for good stories to write someday. Some are half done that I drift back to, others are waiting for another time. I have been keeping it since I was 12 or so.

My first story is about a space trip to Pluto, inspired by the book "2001 a space odyssey" I could probably clean it up and publish it as a kids book right now if I had the connections.

Which language was your first? Was it Niora?  

[Homurakitsune]

The Archer12

So you are kind of like with languages, like I am with story lines. I have a journal with like 50 ideas for good stories to write someday. Some are half done that I drift back to, others are waiting for another time. I have been keeping it since I was 12 or so.

My first story is about a space trip to Pluto, inspired by the book "2001 a space odyssey" I could probably clean it up and publish it as a kids book right now if I had the connections.

Which language was your first? Was it Niora?

I see, I also have a bunch of stories I plan to write someday. Though mine are mostly fantasy, and in all honesty I rarely do a lot of research. whee

Niora was actually not my first, Aprë was. 3nodding Niora is one of the earlier ones though for sure, and by far my most developed.  

[The Archer12]

Quote:

It may pay off to study some African languages aswell as we did techincally orignate from there.

I will probably do a bit of that as well.

It's not known that we came from Africa though. That is just the prevailing theory.

There is another, for example, that says Neanderthals existed in Europe first, and HomoSapiens interbred with them after a migration North. This means that most of our language and culture could have come from Neanderthals. This could also be where the light skin color comes from.

in Asia, (if I remember correctly) the inter breeding would have been with Homoerectus. being different than Neanderthals, this explains why there are such large differing features between those 3 major groups, including physical, cultural and religious.

If true, then we are not actually homosapiens, but rather africanized Neanderthals. It could be the same as how African bees destroyed and replaced the native bees, and same with lady bugs.

It's just a theory though, like all others.  

[spheal 000]

Yeah, these theories are all interesting. Ultimately, I think it is true that we all come from Africa, even the Neanderthals and the Homoerectus. However, we may have just arrived later and bred the Neanderthals out of existence so technically we may be 50/50. I don't know, but it will be interesting to find out more and hopefully we will discover something amazing.  

[vampyre_smiles]

From what strands of DNA we have recovered from Neanderthals, there is no evidence that Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalis interbred. Now, that isn't proof that they didn't interbreed, only that humans today don't carry any of the Neanderthal's genes if it did happen. Basically, scientists think that there probably were crossbreeding, but either the mix was infertile or the children that resulted perished before passing on their genes.  

[Song Wei]

The Archer12

My story takes place about 15,000 years ago and features early man (Homo Sapiens).

There should be already evolved languages by then.

As for making a language, I don't think i would know where to start. It would just end up being English with word substitution.

What I am looking for is suggestions as to which two Conlangs would be good for my needs; so I can start studying them for inspiration. Later when I have a better feel I can then branch off and develop ones unique for my stories.

My premise is that 15,000 years ago language was surprisingly well developed. I am sure nothing spoken then exists today (although we may never know), but I am equally sure what was back then was no less developed, at least verbally.

I would think (obviously in my own personal opinion) That these people would have a language similar to that of the Ewoks or Jawas in star Wars. (mostly because I like those languages and that is the kind of picture I am getting in my mind when you say prehistoric lol, compared to the times anyway.) So (if you even read this comment) I would suggest using languages that reflect the terrain of the area, the most common surroundings (such as what animals, plants, and other geographical influences might be most obvious to them that they need to be able to communicate about them.) And remember Language can mean more than just the verbal approach, in a form of communication it is also important to have bodily gestures, so you can have a large vocabulary of the needed words (such as Rock, Tree, Kill, Bone, Random names of different animals, and of course Names of people) And then use Gestures instead of vocals for other things Such as verbs and other meanings (Like shaking and nodding your head, and waving hands for different things.) Because I would think early humans in this sense would use a lot more body language than they would vocalizing.

I hope this helps!  

[The Archer12]

Shangroulu

The Archer12

My story takes place about 15,000 years ago and features early man (Homo Sapiens).

There should be already evolved languages by then.

As for making a language, I don't think i would know where to start. It would just end up being English with word substitution.

What I am looking for is suggestions as to which two Conlangs would be good for my needs; so I can start studying them for inspiration. Later when I have a better feel I can then branch off and develop ones unique for my stories.

My premise is that 15,000 years ago language was surprisingly well developed. I am sure nothing spoken then exists today (although we may never know), but I am equally sure what was back then was no less developed, at least verbally.

I would think (obviously in my own personal opinion) That these people would have a language similar to that of the Ewoks or Jawas in star Wars. (mostly because I like those languages and that is the kind of picture I am getting in my mind when you say prehistoric lol, compared to the times anyway.) So (if you even read this comment) I would suggest using languages that reflect the terrain of the area, the most common surroundings (such as what animals, plants, and other geographical influences might be most obvious to them that they need to be able to communicate about them.) And remember Language can mean more than just the verbal approach, in a form of communication it is also important to have bodily gestures, so you can have a large vocabulary of the needed words (such as Rock, Tree, Kill, Bone, Random names of different animals, and of course Names of people) And then use Gestures instead of vocals for other things Such as verbs and other meanings (Like shaking and nodding your head, and waving hands for different things.) Because I would think early humans in this sense would use a lot more body language than they would vocalizing.

I hope this helps!

This is a really good idea! I was thinking of something to that effect. The language would have to grow through out the story though, as the ending is it a large civilization. The culture and language at that point has to reflect aspects from the very beginning though.

Like if a "Toola" = Tree for the one tribe, and a "Chuckla" = tree for the second tribe, by the time of the great merging (Ooo I like that!!!) Trees are called toolachucks by everyone.

Of course at the very, very end, the modern people will see that and say a toolachuc means "Life" and is symbolized by a tree, because they just don't get it, but think they do.  

[Song Wei]

The Archer12

Shangroulu

The Archer12

My story takes place about 15,000 years ago and features early man (Homo Sapiens).

There should be already evolved languages by then.

As for making a language, I don't think i would know where to start. It would just end up being English with word substitution.

What I am looking for is suggestions as to which two Conlangs would be good for my needs; so I can start studying them for inspiration. Later when I have a better feel I can then branch off and develop ones unique for my stories.

My premise is that 15,000 years ago language was surprisingly well developed. I am sure nothing spoken then exists today (although we may never know), but I am equally sure what was back then was no less developed, at least verbally.

I would think (obviously in my own personal opinion) That these people would have a language similar to that of the Ewoks or Jawas in star Wars. (mostly because I like those languages and that is the kind of picture I am getting in my mind when you say prehistoric lol, compared to the times anyway.) So (if you even read this comment) I would suggest using languages that reflect the terrain of the area, the most common surroundings (such as what animals, plants, and other geographical influences might be most obvious to them that they need to be able to communicate about them.) And remember Language can mean more than just the verbal approach, in a form of communication it is also important to have bodily gestures, so you can have a large vocabulary of the needed words (such as Rock, Tree, Kill, Bone, Random names of different animals, and of course Names of people) And then use Gestures instead of vocals for other things Such as verbs and other meanings (Like shaking and nodding your head, and waving hands for different things.) Because I would think early humans in this sense would use a lot more body language than they would vocalizing.

I hope this helps!

This is a really good idea! I was thinking of something to that effect. The language would have to grow through out the story though, as the ending is it a large civilization. The culture and language at that point has to reflect aspects from the very beginning though.

Like if a "Toola" = Tree for the one tribe, and a "Chuckla" = tree for the second tribe, by the time of the great merging (Ooo I like that!!!) Trees are called toolachucks by everyone.

Of course at the very, very end, the modern people will see that and say a toolachuc means "Life" and is symbolized by a tree, because they just don't get it, but think they do.

That sounds good! But I was thinking, since you are trying to go for prehistoric times, no language completely survives that long of historical influence to the point where, by your story time line (from what I have gathered so far), civilization would not have a language anywhere near that inclusive of the base forms. So if you have two 'tribes' and they merged tongues, and once they reach 'civilization' from a tribal stage, their languages will be Massively changed in both grammatical structure and possibly vocabulary as well.

Though you do have some very good ideas going here! What I would suggest again is instead of combining two words like you have been, you could try this.
Instead of just adding the words together, TWO language merging together like that would have vast affects on the syntax and over all sound qualities, such as having a word 'Toola' Ok now the one language might not be so familiar the the 'T' sound, So maybe they begin to pronounce the word 'Tsoola' or maybe they don't even have the vowel diphthong of '00' So they would instead be pronouncing it 'Tswila' And then the original people catch on, but they don't have 'ts' So the word ends up changing to 'Chiya' See how that would work? So instead of simply combining the languages vocabulary, you would be looking at how the two affect each other on the root levels.
In tern this would also be assuming that they have a grammar form to be changed, and as for other sounds, it would be vast assumption on my part to think that they do not have the entire same range and knowledge of vocation.

Again, Glad you read the first post! Hope this helps as well wink  

[Lokaagali]

well, i'd use latin.
but looking at how languages used to be is pretty good. like Old English looks nothing like English today.  

[Song Wei]

plostonsa

well, i'd use latin.
but looking at how languages used to be is pretty good. like Old English looks nothing like English today.

But those are nothing like 'so-called Prehistoric languages' So I don't think Latin would help at all... (Not to burst your bubble or anything. Just pointing out that little statement.

Latin is too evolved to be used in the setting he is referring to.  

[The Archer12]

Shangroulu

plostonsa

well, i'd use latin.
but looking at how languages used to be is pretty good. like Old English looks nothing like English today.

But those are nothing like 'so-called Prehistoric languages' So I don't think Latin would help at all... (Not to burst your bubble or anything. Just pointing out that little statement.

Latin is too evolved to be used in the setting he is referring to.

I agree, Latin is not good for my application. Not because it is too evolved though, but because it's to recognizable.

I have been thinking, really any two of the conlangs here would work. Because it is a book, it does not have to be perfect, just a language that the public would not be able to recognize.
I'm probably going to review all the ones everyone here posted, and draw on that to make two up. I will actually just end up doing one, but with two different vocabulary sets. The basic rules have to be simple, but my premis is that verbal language was fairly sophisticated by 15,000 years ago.