Looking for a good prehistoric sounding conlang

[The Archer12]

I am writing a book about a war, later coexistence and eventual blending of two prehistorical villages, and I want to use languages not normally seen today, so I have decided to maybe try and incorporate some Conlangs into the book.

I am not good enough to make my own, so I am hoping some of you might help me?

I need 2 differing languages that have a very prehistoric, non modern sound to them. This is important for parts where members of the differing villages try to communicate. I will narrate it in English for the readers of course.

Who's got any ideas for me to look into?  

[vampyre_smiles]

Depends what you mean by cave man:

If you mean the stereotypical, simple-minded cave man that a lot of people think of, then I'd say use very basic vowels very basic contrasts for consonants, not a lot of supersegramentals like tone or length or nasalization. Not a lot of vowel OR consonant clusters. Or since you want two different "sounding" languages, make one with only a few vowels like /a i u/ but let them have all kinds of polypthongs and things like length and tone, and then make the consonants contrast a lot of things (voiced vs unvoiced vs aspirated, palatal vs non-palatal, stops vs nasals vs fricatives vs affricates etc at a lot of different points of articulation but make it so there aren't any consonant clusters or something. Then do the opposite for the other lang. And keep all the words really short.

If you mean early homo sapiens then just make two languages, cuz those homo sapiens are the same as us on a genetic and neurological level.

If you mean Neanderthals, there's some evidence that if they had speech similar to ours, they wouldn't have as much control over voicing, "rounding" or nasalization, so most likely a whole syllable would be voiced, and the vowels could only be round if the consonants were labial, and if one part of the syllable was nasal, the whole thing was.  

[spheal 000]

I think the language should have very guttural sounds. I also agree with the voiced syllables and the simple vowel system.  

[The Archer12]

My story takes place about 15,000 years ago and features early man (Homo Sapiens).

There should be already evolved languages by then.

As for making a language, I don't think i would know where to start. It would just end up being English with word substitution.

What I am looking for is suggestions as to which two Conlangs would be good for my needs; so I can start studying them for inspiration. Later when I have a better feel I can then branch off and develop ones unique for my stories.

My premise is that 15,000 years ago language was surprisingly well developed. I am sure nothing spoken then exists today (although we may never know), but I am equally sure what was back then was no less developed, at least verbally.  

[spheal 000]

15,000 years ago pretty much all species of the homo genus were extinct aside from H. sapiens sapiens (humans) and a possible species very similar to H.s.s. called H. florensis from Indonesia. You should decide what area your villages reside in. If they are South-East Asian it might pay off to study some old languages from the area, and the same goes for if they are from Northern Europe, etc.

At this point, only the Afro-Eurasian contenent was inhabited by humans, so be sure to stick to this area. Keep in mind that the types of languages spoken throughout this area would have varied greatly similar to today. It may pay off to study some African languages aswell as we did techincally orignate from there.  

[Homurakitsune]

If you don't know where to start, I'm going to point you in the direction of Zompist. Wish you luck! =)  

[The Archer12]

spheal 000

15,000 years ago pretty much all species of the homo genus were extinct aside from H. sapiens sapiens (humans) and a possible species very similar to H.s.s. called H. florensis from Indonesia. You should decide what area your villages reside in. If they are South-East Asian it might pay off to study some old languages from the area, and the same goes for if they are from Northern Europe, etc.

At this point, only the Afro-Eurasian contenent was inhabited by humans, so be sure to stick to this area. Keep in mind that the types of languages spoken throughout this area would have varied greatly similar to today. It may pay off to study some African languages aswell as we did techincally orignate from there.

I was thinking of South America. There are large modern cities deep in the jungles that are just ruins there. They were recently discovered and no one knows much about them. In theory, 5,000 years ago they could have been thriving. My story is more or less along the lines of the early tribes 10,000 year earlier that they eventually came from.

Ideally the way I have it roughed out, there are only two tribes in the beginning. The book also chronicles how small groups meet, begin trading, and later fight as they swell into each other's territory competing for the same resources and eventually melt into each other. Unbeknownst to them, other small tribes in the area are going through the same thing.

This happens over and over until a large thriving metropolis results, although the time line of my book does not go that far. The ruins we see in South America today are them in present time.


In the end, the two languages will also blend into a new third language that they all speak. The third language is a messed up mix or the original two, with vocab from both, and competing grammar rules.

I also have to start studying Ancient South American civilizations, particularly the pre Spanish conquistador ones. I want to include religious aspects that would have components that survived to this day to kind of add some realism to it.

Think of a unique mix of "Clan of the Cave Bear" and aspects of the new "Battlestar Galactica" (minus the technology) with good old fashioned Native American tribal warfare, only set 15,000+ years ago.

I have my work cut out for me.  

[The Archer12]

Homurakitsune

If you don't know where to start, I'm going to point you in the direction of Zompist. Wish you luck! =)

I just went through that whole thing, wow is there a lot to digest!!

I think I will start by looking at existing conlangs to get rough ideas before diving into making ones for the story.  

[Homurakitsune]

The Archer12

Homurakitsune

If you don't know where to start, I'm going to point you in the direction of Zompist. Wish you luck! =)

I just went through that whole thing, wow is there a lot to digest!!

I think I will start by looking at existing conlangs to get rough ideas before diving into making ones for the story.

^_^ Well when it comes to conlanging, generally that's where I point people. It's a nice guide and it's easy to follow, and yeah that's a good idea, but I tend to jump right into these things. whee It's in my nature to experiment, and hey it works out in the end 'cause I come up with some ideas I really like and all. My advice is don't be too bogged down by what others have made, it's your conlang after all when you make one. Don't be afraid to branch out and try new things. =) [/peptalk]

In any case, good luck! Sounds like you've got a nice story to work on here.  

[The Archer12]

From Zompist:

Quote:

Inventing alien languages, authors also simply make use of what we might call phonetic stereotypes. Tolkien's Orkish, for instance, makes heavy use of guttural sounds and is full of consonants, while his Elvish tongues are more vocalic, and seem to have plenty of pleasant-sounding l's and r's

Question, what does "Guttural" and "Vocalic" mean?  

[The Archer12]

Homurakitsune

The Archer12

Homurakitsune

If you don't know where to start, I'm going to point you in the direction of Zompist. Wish you luck! =)

I just went through that whole thing, wow is there a lot to digest!!

I think I will start by looking at existing conlangs to get rough ideas before diving into making ones for the story.

^_^ Well when it comes to conlanging, generally that's where I point people. It's a nice guide and it's easy to follow, and yeah that's a good idea, but I tend to jump right into these things. whee It's in my nature to experiment, and hey it works out in the end 'cause I come up with some ideas I really like and all. My advice is don't be too bogged down by what others have made, it's your conlang after all when you make one. Don't be afraid to branch out and try new things. =) [/peptalk]

In any case, good luck! Sounds like you've got a nice story to work on here.

It's not so much about getting bogged down in another conlang, it's more like I just don't know where to start.

My Mom teaches piano to little kids. They allways want to just play free style right away. Except for this one little girl, who my mom says is very gifted, it always sounds really bad.

She says one must study the masters first, before one can create on thier own. I guess I am approaching this whole thing like My mom teaches music. I want to study some of the masters first, then when I am ready, do my own for the story. That way I will know what direction I need to go.

My story is years from being finished. I have it roughed out finally, but it has a lot of editing to do. It took me 3 years to rough write it from the basic outline of events. This means I have time to work out the linguistics and religious aspects so i can graft them in at the end to finish it.  

[spheal 000]

Guttural means that it is dominantly consonants and the sounds come from deep in the throat. Vocalic is the opposite, it means that it is dominantly vowels and the sounds come from higher up in the mouth. I would recommend having more guttural sounds for your purpose, however it remains as your decision. It might pay off to study the Native American languages and get an idea of what they sound like; you might also like to study how languages change over time so you can interpret how the Native American languages might have sounded like 10,000-15,000 years ago.

I would very strongly reccomend studying the history of the Americas and it's earliest inhabitants. If I were you, I would stop everything else to do with the story until I got my facts sorted out. From what I gathered, the Siberians crossed Beringia around 15,000 B.C. so I would research on how quickly they migrated further south. Also, if they did in fact arrive at this time, I don't think they would be erecting permanent structures so early on. The other hypothesis is that south-east Asians arrived in South America discretely from the Siberians. They think that they may have arrived in Peru at about 20,000 years. I would not use this fact as a base, though, considering most eastern pacific islands were not inhabited until as early as 3000-4000 years ago for some of the first. I personally think 10,000 years ago is a nice, safe time period as the Native Americans would be well settled in by this time, with at least 2,000 years of history.  

[Homurakitsune]

The Archer12

It's not so much about getting bogged down in another conlang, it's more like I just don't know where to start.

My Mom teaches piano to little kids. They allways want to just play free style right away. Except for this one little girl, who my mom says is very gifted, it always sounds really bad.

She says one must study the masters first, before one can create on thier own. I guess I am approaching this whole thing like My mom teaches music. I want to study some of the masters first, then when I am ready, do my own for the story. That way I will know what direction I need to go.

My story is years from being finished. I have it roughed out finally, but it has a lot of editing to do. It took me 3 years to rough write it from the basic outline of events. This means I have time to work out the linguistics and religious aspects so i can graft them in at the end to finish it.

Ah, well that's a good approach, but it isn't something I honestly believe in. I just like to experiment, sure knowing your craft is important, but then again my conlangs are mainly just fun not for anything specific.

As a writer myself, I respect you're doing so much research. =)
(because that's another thing I experiment with haha. whee )

Also, I recently found a helpful guide for phonetics! Made the little nerd inside me squeal: Phonetics! If you're really looking for where to start, that's where to start. Gotta know the sounds before you can make the words. ^_^  

[The Archer12]

Quote:

The other hypothesis is that south-east Asians arrived in South America discretely from the Siberians.

This is an intriguing thought. The ruins in South America are very old. Not much is known about them, so it is very possible this occurred.

It makes sense that South America was settled first because there were a number of very highly developed civilizations, the Mayans for example. In the North however, the people were still living in Tepee's in small tribes. This tells me they came later and had not had enough time to really develop like the South Americans did.  

[The Archer12]

Homurakitsune

The Archer12

It's not so much about getting bogged down in another conlang, it's more like I just don't know where to start.

My Mom teaches piano to little kids. They allways want to just play free style right away. Except for this one little girl, who my mom says is very gifted, it always sounds really bad.

She says one must study the masters first, before one can create on thier own. I guess I am approaching this whole thing like My mom teaches music. I want to study some of the masters first, then when I am ready, do my own for the story. That way I will know what direction I need to go.

My story is years from being finished. I have it roughed out finally, but it has a lot of editing to do. It took me 3 years to rough write it from the basic outline of events. This means I have time to work out the linguistics and religious aspects so i can graft them in at the end to finish it.

Ah, well that's a good approach, but it isn't something I honestly believe in. I just like to experiment, sure knowing your craft is important, but then again my conlangs are mainly just fun not for anything specific.

As a writer myself, I respect you're doing so much research. =)
(because that's another thing I experiment with haha. whee )

Also, I recently found a helpful guide for phonetics! Made the little nerd inside me squeal: Phonetics! If you're really looking for where to start, that's where to start. Gotta know the sounds before you can make the words. ^_^

Wow thanks!! You are turning out to be a real information source!!

Say, I noticed you have several topics on multiple languages, how many did you make anyway?