|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:10 pm
 |
|
|
 |
Well, obviously, the divinity of Jesus is not a neopagan idea, but I'd like to know your opinions on it. Most of you are probably questioning my sanity as of now, but there is method to my madness... sort of... not really.
Okay, just to clear things up, Jesus was a real guy, okay? No getting around it, so pleeeease don't say "I don't believe in Jesus." You are allowed to say anything else, just not that.
So anyway, whether or not you have, I have actually met a few Wiccans who believe Jesus was an especially divine figure. None of them take it to the extreme levels that the Bible does, but they do in fact, think he was divine.
So, was Jesus divine? Does it make you not Wiccan to believe that? State your opinions, for they are much valued.
Oh and, what do I think? I think that everyone and everything on Earth and in the universe has a bit of divinity in them (a bit of God and a bit of Goddess), but Jesus just knew how to use his really well, as did Buddha and all those other sage-ish people.
Oh, and I'm not expecting many people to say Jesus is divine, but I'm wondering if anyone will at all. I want all of your opinions, my lovelies <3
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:22 pm
|
|
|
|
Actually, if I'm not mistaken (I could be thinking about something else I heard), there's no actual evidence that Jesus ever existed (other than stories). Before someone shoots me, I'm going to go back and look over my notes after I post this. I'm not saying he didn't exist, just that there's no physical evidence of it... just like many of the other people in the Bible (oh the things you learn in college)... anway...
I don't believe that Jesus was divine. I agree with you that the gods are in each of us, but I don't think that makes anyone divine. Just because they are in us, that doesn't make us divine ourselves.
Besides that, the stories in the Bible aren't meant to be taken literally, such as the turning water in to wine thing...
So, I'm wondering, what exactly would make him more divine than the rest of us?
I think that he was just a really intelligent man. No divinity in that.
Alright, I'm off to read through my notes again...
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:44 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:07 pm
|
|
|
|
True, we have no historical evidence proving that Jesus was real. Faith in him and his existence comes directly from the Bible. Nothing else, as far as I recall.
Many aspects of the life of of Jesus has similarities to other older pagan gods. One of the more popular gods people like to compare him to is Horus. This is one of the websites comparing both of their life stories. I also believe that some people compare Jesus with Mithras, as well as others. On sort of a different note, it's pretty interesting how the Bible relates with other mythological accounts and astronomy/astrology. I don't know if you've heard of the zeitgeist movie but the first half hour (45-55 minutes maybe?) talks about it, and when I went to check the information it provided a good majority of it seems accurate. You can watch it here, but I should warn you, the first 13 minutes is random and a bit dramatic.
I don't know Jesus on any personal level and can't say that I think he's divine. I'm not even sure if he even existed as a person, or if he exists. If anything, he can be viewed as a symbol of love, hope, etc, depending on opinion. I think that if a Wiccan wanted to believe in Jesus as a god or guide of some sort, along with other gods, there wouldn't be anything wrong with this. But he isn't "the only son of God" or the most important and the Bible+Wicca are incompatible. In my personal opinion, he isn't any different then any other sort of mythology, as far as I can see, he is an interpretation of stories previously existing.
I too also believe that we are a part of the Divine, and it is a part of us, the physical and spiritual manifestation. Some people are more in touch with their spiritual side, such as shamans and others, although that does not make us gods.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:58 pm
|
|
|
|
Personally, I think every deity in the world is just a different interpretation of the God and Goddess. A manifestation of different aspects of their personality, if that makes sense. I think the Christian god, and maybe even Jesus, are no different. Personally, I don't really include Jehova/Jesus/Mary/Whathaveyou in my worship because I feel no connection to them. I have a lot of hangups with the Christian religion. Growing up in a Christian household for half my life I never really felt connected to "God" and the only part that ever made me respond spiritually in church was when we got to sing.
I kind of see Christianity as a reformed rapist. They start off doing terrible, horrible things (Old Testament) then they say they've changed (New Testament). When a rapist tells you they're a new man/woman, do you believe them? Of course not. But some people do and then they let them have some child bible study and you find out from your nephew Joey that Christianity is running a child porn ring. I like some of the things Jesus says, but that doesn't make up for the open wound that Christianity has created throughout history, before and after his teachings.
Perhaps though Jesus's patron god was just Jehova, and he had an extremely good connection with him. Perhaps Jesus was a vessel for a higher power, who knows. If people choose to believe that, thats they're choice and I can respect that. Wiccan's who believe Jehova or Mary or some other Christian figure has reached out to them and decide to treat them as they're representation of God and Goddess should be as acceptable as choosing any other divine figure. I don't think they should read and follow the bible (at least in its entirety) while also practicing Wicca because they seem contradictory to me. If you're going to choose Jehova as your patron you should communicate to him directly and recieve instruction and guidance that way, not by following the teachings some other people wrote down in a dusty, contradictory old book. but if thats the path they're called to they should feel free to believe and practice that, I just wouldn't choose it for the same reasons I wouldn't choose a morally questionable patron god like Zeus.
So I guess the divinity of Jesus really depends on the person. I think he could be, but also might not be divine. I can't really create a solid opinion because I have very little connection to that aspect of the God. It would take someone who has a strong connection with Jehova to really search that out and find an answer, if they receive one at all.
I hope that made sense O.o"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:26 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:31 am
|
|
|
|
Actually, we do have Roman records from sources about the emperor who dealt with Jesus' case. He did exist, now, to the extent of the Bible, I don't know. I think he has some sort of divinity within him, otherwise we probably wouldn't still be hearing about him thousands of years later. There was obviously something about him that at a minimum, made him different fro the society that people in his time lived in. Probably in their time he was God like, and he probably did help people as it were, and is stated in the Bible.
We all know the Bible has had things changed. We need to get over that by now, documents change, just like history changes, something get left out and others are added. Just keep in mind that while the things that are added now, don't make sense to us but they worked at the time for the era it was changed for or don't make sense to us now, given natural language changes. For example, Exodus (I think it's 22:17 but don't quote me on that) carries a line that clearly states "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." And it's true, but a witch at the time didn't mean people like us, they meant people who concocted poisons in which to murder others.
Personally. I still find comfort in calling upon Jesus when I need him. I can't deny the spiritual warmth that fills me when I sense him.
The fact of the matter is, is that, if you should decide to believe he existed or whether didn't, doesn't make a difference in the end. He is still an example of what we, as humans should be. A kind person who doesn't discriminate against people around him and tried to help people. He embodies what we Wiccans should be striving to be in more then one way.
And, just so no one bites my head off, thats pretty much my opinion. I practice the *still disputed* Christian Wicca so thats probably why I have the opinions I do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:26 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:53 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:55 am
|
|
|
|
Whether or not he was real, I'm inclined to believe that, if he was real, rather than being 'divine', I think we was probably a man who was known to be a 'hero' of sorts - a kind man, who did many things to help out strangers, even if there was nothing in it for him. A good samaritan, if you will, heh. And when searching for an 'idol', during the creation process of christianity, I think the priests came across his story, and felt he would be a good representation of what they hoped humanity to be. And then 'decorated' the tale a little. So really, his divinity comes solely from human believe, rather than actual godly powers.
In my humble opinion, of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:10 am
|
|
|
|
JVCA Whether or not he was real, I'm inclined to believe that, if he was real, rather than being 'divine', I think we was probably a man who was known to be a 'hero' of sorts - a kind man, who did many things to help out strangers, even if there was nothing in it for him. A good samaritan, if you will, heh. And when searching for an 'idol', during the creation process of christianity, I think the priests came across his story, and felt he would be a good representation of what they hoped humanity to be. And then 'decorated' the tale a little. So really, his divinity comes solely from human believe, rather than actual godly powers. In my humble opinion, of course.
I agree wholeheartedly. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:52 pm
|
|
|
|
dark_angel_32189 Actually, if I'm not mistaken (I could be thinking about something else I heard), there's no actual evidence that Jesus ever existed (other than stories). Before someone shoots me, I'm going to go back and look over my notes after I post this. I'm not saying he didn't exist, just that there's no physical evidence of it... just like many of the other people in the Bible (oh the things you learn in college)... anway... I don't believe that Jesus was divine. I agree with you that the gods are in each of us, but I don't think that makes anyone divine. Just because they are in us, that doesn't make us divine ourselves. Besides that, the stories in the Bible aren't meant to be taken literally, such as the turning water in to wine thing... So, I'm wondering, what exactly would make him more divine than the rest of us? I think that he was just a really intelligent man. No divinity in that. Alright, I'm off to read through my notes again...
I agree. I think that Jesus was not divine, he was smart. Although I haven't really studied the bible or anything, so I don't know much about Jesus. I believe that he was real, but he wasn't as fabulous as people make him out to be. I think there is SOME truth in the whole Jesus story, but, like many stories, is not completely true. I think that the story probably changed over time. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:49 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 am
|
|
|
|
...
Well, from what little evidence we have of him (the thing is, since there aren't many hard facts about him, it would be hard to get anything concrete like a DNA sample, as his stats would probably match up to any other Middle Eastern man of the same period ), I think he existed. I could go on forever about the possible evidence I've dug up in my weekly scurry through the Religion and Ancient History sections of the library, but I won't, because we're not all biblical archeology nuts.
Suffice it to say that I think he was the sun of god(s). The key point here? We all are. Didn't he even say that himself?
I'm not sure what standards someone must reach to be considered 'divine'. Assuming he existed, Jesus was a great man in many ways. He had strong, solid and often very true beliefs. But was he divine?
I think that everyone can reach some level of divinity. Jesus probably did - but he reached it.
So really, we can all be Jesus if we think strongly about things, have a system to rebel against, gather up a few disciples and go rebel against it, already!
...I'm hoping that made some semblance of sense.
... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
