The Chaos Dwarfs

[Lethkhar]

Uh...according to first meaning there, create is to bring into existence. Chaos didn't bring chaos dwarves nor beastmen into existence. You're looking at the second and less used form of the word. You're getting desperate.

Oh, and I know that just because my brother has been collecting chaos dwarves since they first came out it doesn't make me the all-knowing. I'm just saying it means I know more about it than you do, and I've checked my sources.  

[berserker_girl]

And you're acting like a child! Most if not all words have more than one deffinate meaning, and this case, Create has 3, the second one being the most relevant. Can't you just accept that you're wrong in this case? Oh, and talk about sounding like the desperate one (The first one proves you wrong, but the second....).

Its not about your sources, its about the english language! Chaos CREATED the beastmen and chaos dwarfs. Deal with it.  

[Lethkhar]

berserker_girl

And you're acting like a child!

First of all, I fail to see the relevance of this to the topic. You know what's funny though? My last post I thought about saying that you were acting childish but dismissed it because I knew that insulting my opponent was rather immature. The irony is agonizing.

berserker_girl

Most if not all words have more than one deffinate meaning, and this case, Create has 3, the second one being the most relevant.

Really? I had no idea that words could have more than one meaning! rolleyes

berserker_girl

Can't you just accept that you're wrong in this case? Oh, and talk about sounding like the desperate one (The first one proves you wrong, but the second....).

Ok, I will admit that if Popo had meant a certain form of the word create then we are in agreement and he needs no correction. I was saying that that beastmen and Chaos Dwarves were warped by chaos, and according to you he was saying the exact same thing. Sorry for wasting your time, Popo!

berserker_girl

Its not about your sources, its about the english language! Chaos CREATED the beastmen and chaos dwarfs. Deal with it.

If you want to argue about the english language, go to the writer's forum and stop wasting the time of people who want to talk about Warhammer. My point was that Chaos didn't bring the Chaos dwarves into being, it just changed what was already there.  

[Lethkhar]

In the fifth addition of Warhammer, when the CDs were still in print, CDs weren't part of Chaos. Since the last official rules made for them were in the book Ravening Hordes in 2002, and that never said anything about them being able to be part of a chaos army (I own a copy of it), we are left to assume that the CDs, currently, are not a part of Chaos. However, there are rumors (and they are just rumors) that when and if Games Workshop starts printing Chaos Dwarves again they will be a branch of Chaos. These are just rumors and Games Workshop has never said anything of the sort.  

[berserker_girl]

Okay, we've come to an understanding, I think. I just can't understand why you went all out when he used the word "create." But that's over now, let's get on with our lives. But next time something like this happens, let's all try to keep cool and open minds.

I can understand why GW would do that, it would make what they think to be an unmarketable popular again. The whole hellcannon crew thing already proved that, IMO. they generated alot of buzz. But like I said earlier, I think it would be best if they had their own army book and stayed divorced from Chaos, but certain units could be used as mercs.  

[Daemon_King]

Okay, I log in to find this...this moron, who brings in a load of bull s**t about Chaos, and acts as if he knows everything about the races of Chaos. Look, I play Chaos, I study Chaos, and I know more about Chaos then you do Lethkhar. You go around thinking you know more about CD, but you nelegct to mention that there are some of use that know more about Chaos than you.
1. The first Beastmen were actually mutated by the warp. They hate humans, and other creatures. Saying that wheren't created by Chaos, what the hell do you know about Chaos by saying that, you want to talk about being repeatative, you basically say the same thing every time, and we give more and different information each you flap your big trap. I mean do know what Warpstone is, cause I'll tell, it's pure raw chaos energy stored inside rocks. See, if something or someone worships one or all of the Dark Gods. They are apart of Chaos. I don't care where, or what for that matter, they came from, but if they hail Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. They are deffinently members of Chaos. See you can connect Nurgle to the Horned Rat. Some Skaven have even been blessed by Nurgle. So, if you think that just daemons were the only things created by Chaos, think again. Cause an experience Chaos player knows that the same magicks used to created daemons, that collasped the gates of heaven stated in the Lizardmen army book, took influence on the men, the elves, and the dwarfs. See the Cult of Slaanesh was an ancient cult of the Dark Elves created near the same time of the Great Divide, and the new army list shows the reopening of the cult. So, what do you think of Galrauch, the first of the Chaos dragons, which is also a daemonic dragon. Or how about the Daemon Princes or Exalted Daemons that were once mortal men. I'm asking you how much reseach have you done, or better yet how many books of the Chaos armies have you seen and/or looked over. Do you even play Chaos, not played against Chaos.  

[Lethkhar]

berserker_girl

Okay, we've come to an understanding, I think. I just can't understand why you went all out when he used the word "create." But that's over now, let's get on with our lives. But next time something like this happens, let's all try to keep cool and open minds.

I can understand why GW would do that, it would make what they think to be an unmarketable popular again. The whole hellcannon crew thing already proved that, IMO. they generated alot of buzz. But like I said earlier, I think it would be best if they had their own army book and stayed divorced from Chaos, but certain units could be used as mercs.

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! biggrin  

[berserker_girl]

Lethkhar

berserker_girl

Okay, we've come to an understanding, I think. I just can't understand why you went all out when he used the word "create." But that's over now, let's get on with our lives. But next time something like this happens, let's all try to keep cool and open minds.

I can understand why GW would do that, it would make what they think to be an unmarketable popular again. The whole hellcannon crew thing already proved that, IMO. they generated alot of buzz. But like I said earlier, I think it would be best if they had their own army book and stayed divorced from Chaos, but certain units could be used as mercs.

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! biggrin

Which part, the first or the second?  

[Lethkhar]

Daemon_king

Okay, I log in to find this...this moron, who brings in a load of bull s**t about Chaos, and acts as if he knows everything about the races of Chaos. Look, I play Chaos, I study Chaos, and I know more about Chaos then you do Lethkhar. You go around thinking you know more about CD, but you nelegct to mention that there are some of use that know more about Chaos than you.

Wow, that was rather blunt. I'm sorry you feel that way. Let's see, I play chaos, I study chaos, hmm...sounds like we could've gotten along well. Unfortunately you seem to be rather...intense about knowing more than me. But how do you know that?

Daemon_king

1. The first Beastmen were actually mutated by the warp. They hate humans, and other creatures. .

Maybe you should look at the entire post. We are in complete agreement here. The Beastmen were mutated by the warp, that's exactly what I was saying.

Daemon_king

Saying that wheren't created by Chaos, what the hell do you know about Chaos by saying that, you want to talk about being repeatative, you basically say the same thing every time, and we give more and different information each you flap your big trap.

Berserker girl and I already went over this. It was a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "create". Yet again, read the entire post before you "flap you big trap". Oh, and yes, I am saying the same thing every time because you're saying basically the same thing every time also. This is a stupid argument. I would give more arguments, but you guys don't give me anything new to retaliate to.

Daemon_king

I mean do know what Warpstone is, cause I'll tell, it's pure raw chaos energy stored inside rocks..

What does warpstone have to do with the chaos dwarves? I know what it is and how the skaven use it, but isn't that a bit...off-topic?

Daemon_king

See, if something or someone worships one or all of the Dark Gods. They are apart of Chaos. I don't care where, or what for that matter, they came from, but if they hail Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. They are deffinently members of Chaos. See you can connect Nurgle to the Horned Rat. Some Skaven have even been blessed by Nurgle. So, if you think that just daemons were the only things created by Chaos, think again.

Now we're confusing gods. Hashut, once again, is not a chaos god. Oh, and demons were, in fact, the only thing created by Chaos if we're using the first definition of Merian Webster's dictionary. However, if you had read all of the recent posts you would have seen that berserker girl corrected me in this. In fact, there is a meaning to "create" that basically means "change". If we're using this definition, then you are correct. Anything mutated or slightly changed by chaos would be considered to have been created by chaos. What I was saying was that Skaven nor Chaos Dwarves and Beastmen were not created by Chaos from scratch. They were simply twisted. In fact, when you think about it, demons weren't even started from scratch. They are souls that have taken form. They were once mortal followers of Chaos, humans that were changed by Chaos.

Daemon_king

Cause an experience Chaos player knows that the same magicks used to created daemons, that collasped the gates of heaven stated in the Lizardmen army book, took influence on the men, the elves, and the dwarfs.

The key word is "influence". The magic changed what was already there, it didn't create (in the first meaning of the word) them from scratch.

Daemon_king

See the Cult of Slaanesh was an ancient cult of the Dark Elves created near the same time of the Great Divide, and the new army list shows the reopening of the cult.

I'm sorry, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? You just kind of threw that in there. Did I miss any hidden meaning behind that?

Daemon_king

So, what do you think of Galrauch, the first of the Chaos dragons, which is also a daemonic dragon. Or how about the Daemon Princes or Exalted Daemons that were once mortal men.

Oh, well I think that they're pretty much kick-a**. Especially Galrauch and the Bloodthirster. But again what does that have to do with anything we're talking about? The fact that they were once mortal men (and dragons)? You just proved my point. Everything was warped by Chaos, not brought into existence by it.

Daemon_king

I'm asking you how much reseach have you done, or better yet how many books of the Chaos armies have you seen and/or looked over. Do you even play Chaos, not played against Chaos.

I play Chaos. I have a (roughly) 4500-point Khorne/Undivided army. My brother has an even larger Chaos Dwarf army. I have read and own the Hordes of Chaos (sixth edition) army book, the Beasts of Chaos (sixth edition) army book, I have read and own the Ravening Hordes book. I have read and my brother owns the Chaos Dwarves army book (fifth edition). I have read and my friends own the Lizardmen army book (6th edition), the Wood Elves army book (6th edition), the High Elves army book (6th edition), the Dark Elves army book (6th edition), and the Empire army book (6th edition). I've done my homework, I assure you.

I think that most of this is just misuderstandings (e.g. the misunderstanding about the meaning of the word "create"). I think that we actually agree with each other. But if you wish to disagree anyway, feel free.

BTW: Aren't you the same guy who said that Giants are essentially large humans and that they should join the Empire? I'll check real quick, it was in the new plastic giant thread.

EDIT: Yes, you are! lol I thought that that was funny. At first I thought that you were serious! Humans allying with Giants... lol  

[Lethkhar]

berserker_girl

Lethkhar

berserker_girl

Okay, we've come to an understanding, I think. I just can't understand why you went all out when he used the word "create." But that's over now, let's get on with our lives. But next time something like this happens, let's all try to keep cool and open minds.

I can understand why GW would do that, it would make what they think to be an unmarketable popular again. The whole hellcannon crew thing already proved that, IMO. they generated alot of buzz. But like I said earlier, I think it would be best if they had their own army book and stayed divorced from Chaos, but certain units could be used as mercs.

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! biggrin

Which part, the first or the second?

both smile  

[berserker_girl]

Lethkhar

berserker_girl

Lethkhar

berserker_girl

Okay, we've come to an understanding, I think. I just can't understand why you went all out when he used the word "create." But that's over now, let's get on with our lives. But next time something like this happens, let's all try to keep cool and open minds.

I can understand why GW would do that, it would make what they think to be an unmarketable popular again. The whole hellcannon crew thing already proved that, IMO. they generated alot of buzz. But like I said earlier, I think it would be best if they had their own army book and stayed divorced from Chaos, but certain units could be used as mercs.

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth! biggrin

Which part, the first or the second?

both smile

Cool.

So what's your favorite thing about the CD's? I've always loved the Lamassu; I thought it was the coolest model when I was younger.  

[Daemon_King]

Lethkhar

Daemon_king

Okay, I log in to find this...this moron, who brings in a load of bull s**t about Chaos, and acts as if he knows everything about the races of Chaos. Look, I play Chaos, I study Chaos, and I know more about Chaos then you do Lethkhar. You go around thinking you know more about CD, but you nelegct to mention that there are some of use that know more about Chaos than you.

Wow, that was rather blunt. I'm sorry you feel that way. Let's see, I play chaos, I study chaos, hmm...sounds like we could've gotten along well. Unfortunately you seem to be rather...intense about knowing more than me. But how do you know that?

Daemon_king

1. The first Beastmen were actually mutated by the warp. They hate humans, and other creatures. .

Maybe you should look at the entire post. We are in complete agreement here. The Beastmen were mutated by the warp, that's exactly what I was saying.

Daemon_king

Saying that wheren't created by Chaos, what the hell do you know about Chaos by saying that, you want to talk about being repeatative, you basically say the same thing every time, and we give more and different information each you flap your big trap.

Berserker girl and I already went over this. It was a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "create". Yet again, read the entire post before you "flap you big trap". Oh, and yes, I am saying the same thing every time because you're saying basically the same thing every time also. This is a stupid argument. I would give more arguments, but you guys don't give me anything new to retaliate to.

Daemon_king

I mean do know what Warpstone is, cause I'll tell, it's pure raw chaos energy stored inside rocks..

What does warpstone have to do with the chaos dwarves? I know what it is and how the skaven use it, but isn't that a bit...off-topic?

Daemon_king

See, if something or someone worships one or all of the Dark Gods. They are apart of Chaos. I don't care where, or what for that matter, they came from, but if they hail Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. They are deffinently members of Chaos. See you can connect Nurgle to the Horned Rat. Some Skaven have even been blessed by Nurgle. So, if you think that just daemons were the only things created by Chaos, think again.

Now we're confusing gods. Hashut, once again, is not a chaos god. Oh, and demons were, in fact, the only thing created by Chaos if we're using the first definition of Merian Webster's dictionary. However, if you had read all of the recent posts you would have seen that berserker girl corrected me in this. In fact, there is a meaning to "create" that basically means "change". If we're using this definition, then you are correct. Anything mutated or slightly changed by chaos would be considered to have been created by chaos. What I was saying was that Skaven nor Chaos Dwarves and Beastmen were not created by Chaos from scratch. They were simply twisted. In fact, when you think about it, demons weren't even started from scratch. They are souls that have taken form. They were once mortal followers of Chaos, humans that were changed by Chaos.

Daemon_king

Cause an experience Chaos player knows that the same magicks used to created daemons, that collasped the gates of heaven stated in the Lizardmen army book, took influence on the men, the elves, and the dwarfs.

The key word is "influence". The magic changed what was already there, it didn't create (in the first meaning of the word) them from scratch.

Daemon_king

See the Cult of Slaanesh was an ancient cult of the Dark Elves created near the same time of the Great Divide, and the new army list shows the reopening of the cult.

I'm sorry, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? You just kind of threw that in there. Did I miss any hidden meaning behind that?

Daemon_king

So, what do you think of Galrauch, the first of the Chaos dragons, which is also a daemonic dragon. Or how about the Daemon Princes or Exalted Daemons that were once mortal men.

Oh, well I think that they're pretty much kick-a**. Especially Galrauch and the Bloodthirster. But again what does that have to do with anything we're talking about? The fact that they were once mortal men (and dragons)? You just proved my point. Everything was warped by Chaos, not brought into existence by it.

Daemon_king

I'm asking you how much reseach have you done, or better yet how many books of the Chaos armies have you seen and/or looked over. Do you even play Chaos, not played against Chaos.

I play Chaos. I have a (roughly) 4500-point Khorne/Undivided army. My brother has an even larger Chaos Dwarf army. I have read and own the Hordes of Chaos (sixth edition) army book, the Beasts of Chaos (sixth edition) army book, I have read and own the Ravening Hordes book. I have read and my brother owns the Chaos Dwarves army book (fifth edition). I have read and my friends own the Lizardmen army book (6th edition), the Wood Elves army book (6th edition), the High Elves army book (6th edition), the Dark Elves army book (6th edition), and the Empire army book (6th edition). I've done my homework, I assure you.

I think that most of this is just misuderstandings (e.g. the misunderstanding about the meaning of the word "create"). I think that we actually agree with each other. But if you wish to disagree anyway, feel free.

BTW: Aren't you the same guy who said that Giants are essentially large humans and that they should join the Empire? I'll check real quick, it was in the new plastic giant thread.

EDIT: Yes, you are! lol I thought that that was funny. At first I thought that you were serious! Humans allying with Giants... lol

On some things you said makes me think, "did you suddenly lose any memory of past posts," I was looking over past posts, and I was angry at the time, but not at you so sorry for my rudeness. I'm just curious, how long have you been playing. See my research stretchs longer than yours, when I have free time for Warhammer, and if I'm not painting or battling, I doing my research. The part with my thing with the giant is a long story with my theory, and I didn't even bother with it.  

[Lethkhar]

I've been playing for almost 7 years now. But I've been collecting for only 4. I know that's not as much as a lot of people but I've been told I'm a fanatic, which is probably true. I'm curious to know what you mean by my losing memory of past posts. Do you mind giving an example so that I might embelish so as not to create (in the first meaning of the word) any confusion?

Oh and about the giant. Do you mind telling me that theory? It's so outrageous that I can't resist wondering. But I guess that's kind of OOC.  

[Lethkhar]

The Earthshaker Cannons are my favorite model. They're DEVISTATING!!! By far the most feared thing in the chaos dwarf army. I mean, it makes it so that dwarves can outmaneuver you! Next up is blunderbusses. Whenever I'm asked about blunderbusses, I respond,"Anything that's within 12" in front of a unit of blunderbusses with three ranks dies, no exception." Then there's sneaky gits, with they're special overrun rule (it doesn't matter if they won the previous close combat or not, they can still overrun). A large unit of the them is awesome against things like knights. They take the charge, get slaughtered, then overrun and surround the knights. Then 2 poisoned attacks each is really devistating and it goes from there...Of course you should always make sure you have a hero with them because otherwise they're likely to break. But if you're talking about appearance, I've always been partial to the Lammasu and the Bull Centaurs. Astragoth is also cool...  

[GT_Popogeejo]

*Rubs hands together*
We've got a lot to cover now.

What does warpstone have to do with the chaos dwarves? I know what it is and how the skaven use it, but isn't that a bit...off-topic?

The warpstone is what warped the chaos dwarfs into their current form.It's what the warp dust in the fluff I posted was.

The first Beastmen were actually mutated by the warp. They hate humans, and other creatures. .

A bit off topic but still part of the convo,the beastmen first came through the polar gates according to one of the Gotrek books.they set uphsop in the Olde World and are now firmly rooted.
The Skaven were not men but rats that were transformed by warpstone.There was dark magic involved aswell.The story is in the Skaven book(amaizingly rolleyes )
The "evil rats" killed all the men and Dwarfs of a big city so Skaven could not possibly be related to men.

In the fifth addition of Warhammer, when the CDs were still in print, CDs weren't part of Chaos. Since the last official rules made for them were in the book Ravening Hordes in 2002, and that never said anything about them being able to be part of a chaos army (I own a copy of it),

It also says beastmen can't allie with with mortals.There are no rules in ti for combining armies.

So what's your favorite thing about the CD's?

Bull centaurs for the win!

Lethkhar,I'm sorry if I've been rude but when I'm in a debat I go in for all or nothing.The problem is I'll start to get too impassoined about subjects that I'm not really to bothered about,like "Were the CD created or not?"I don't mean any real offense.What is said in a debate says in the debate. wink