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Zeitgeist and Anthropology

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Synnthetika

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:52 am
For our final papers, my anthropology teacher sent the class some examples of "great papers." I say this tentatively because some of them weren't so great. One did happen to catch my eye in that it claimed to have found the connections between Christianity and Paganism. I am going to go ahead and post what the teacher sent us (it is not complete, damn lazy anthropology teacher) along with some questions I had.

Quote:

Christianity-Modern Sun Worship
Christianity is the largest of the living world religions and is directly tied to paganism. Sharing astrological similarities along with writings in common with other religious texts puts Christianity in a family of religions that worship the sun. They share stories and global events illustrating the power of a higher being which interacts through a savior or directly to improve humanity. Many numbers are shared between the sun worship families of religion and are celebrated in much the same way bringing them closer together as kin rather than rivals. Christianity mentions the constellations and in a few Old Testament passages seems to refer to the Greco roman dieties. Some may believe that this indicates fraud in the Judeo-Christian belief system but a more realistic explanation would be that the social structure changes so abruptly that a new iteration of a trusted system was born.

Many stories in the bible are reiterations of stories from other religions regarded by Christians as “pagan.” The list of similar or refurbished stories is very long when comparing the bible and the Egyptian book of the dead as well as some from other religions. Three well known stories from Christianity and their earlier counterparts are,
• Noahs Arc and the Epic of Gilgamesh
• Adam and Eve and a cylinder resurrected from Babylonian ruins representing a man, snake and woman offering an apple.
• The birth, life, and death of Jesus and the birth, life and death of Horus the sun god from the Egyptian book of the dead.
It is no mystery that these great universal stories depicting humanities struggle through the fit well in Christianity. Christianity, like all pagan religions, assimilates the beneficial concepts and quickly distributes them among its followers. A religion’s life is dependent upon popular cultural trends reflecting the ideas and beliefs of a population. These are not static and can vary greatly from one region to another but the fundamental elements are observed to varying degrees(Zeitgeist)(Bible)( Ellis, Normandi).

Shared miracles are another connection seen more strongly in the God Horus and Jesus Christ who both performed miracles such as walked on water and healed the sick as well as raised the dead. In particular, the name of the man that Horus raised from dead directly translates to Lazarus in Hebrew. Many of the names used to describe god are common to many religions. Some of them are,
• Lamb of god
• Alpha and the omega
• Sheppard
• Etc…
Given the location that Christianity sprung forth it is not unreasonable to believe that all these names would culminate on the new iteration of the classic solar messiah. Israel was the center of world trade and many different people with different beliefs flowed through the region while a people desperate under a crushing roman rule were looking for answers. This was the environment for the substantial social change that rippled throughout the world.

Constellations are looked upon and admired by many and are observed by Christians and pagans alike. Christianity and Judaism observe the precession of the equinox with many pagan religions dividing up the year into Equinoxes and Solstices along with 12 personified representations of the zodiac. Closely examined, the bible repeated the number 12 showing the shared significance of the number. Jesus had 12 apostles in the New Testament while the Old Testament had 12 of each of the following (Bible)
 Tribes of Israel
 Sons of Jacob
 Judges of Israel
 Great Patriarchs
 Other Prophets

Another more direct astrological reference is found in the story of the three kings that visit Jesus after his birth (Bible). The stars in Orion’s belt were referred to in the ancient world as the three kings and they aligned at the time of the birth of the Christ with the star in the east, Sirius, pointing to the spot on the horizon where the sun rises on December 25th. This story is a depiction of a rare star alignment that occurs once every age of precession. Christ is said to be a super Pisces with an astrological birth chart signifying a strong influence and followers with a fervor strengthening the belief that he being with an unprecedented strength in spiritual understanding (The Horoscope of Jesus). That may have lead to his crucifixion which also follows an annual astrological event. During the three days, December 22nd, 23rd, and 24th, the sun seemingly freezes on the horizon after which it rises again one degree north until Easter when it then falls again south. This symbolizes the life cycle of the sun that is personified in belief of the solar messiah. The sun is the center of the zodiac and interacts with celestial figures through the annual calendar and the great year which is the precession of all 12 signs of the zodiac. They share religious practices because they are sharing in the bountiful provision of the sun during the seasons(Zeitgeist).

The concept of a holy trinity is also shared with Christianity with early examples dating back to Babylon with King Ninus and his son born to his name. People believed that young Ninus was born of a virgin mother because of the confusion between his and his father’s shared name. Young Ninus was also believed to be the son of god further perpetuating peoples worship of him as god. He was also the king during the collapse of the Tower of Babylon where the people as punishment could not understand each other as punishment for their vanity. This is a very good example that the idea of the holy trinity was also in circulation well before Christianity (Hislop, Alexander).

Again, some may use analysis such as these in an attempt to destroy religion but it is most likely a shift in belief related to radical social change. One should not look to deep into the information without thinking about how people behave and first realizing that religion is a living creation of man to consolidate and strengthen the species. Christianity is just a modern form of a primal need to assemble by people with collective needs and desires. It will one day shed its skin and become another religion which will be quite similar but different enough to called its own and it will continue to serve humanity in the coming ages as it has in the ages that have preceded it until now.

[...]

Bibliography
Hislop, Alexander. The Two Babylons. Chicago: Book Tree, 2006. Print.
Ellis, Normandi. Awakening Osiris The Egyptian Book of the Dead. New York: Phanes, 1988. Print.
Prindle, William D. Holy Bible 21st Century King James Version (KJ21). New York: 21st Century King James Bible, 1994. Print.
"The Horoscope of Jesus." SOS Consulting Personal Web Server. Web. 29 July 2009. .

"Astrology in the Bible." Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife. Web. 29 July 2009. .
Zeitgeist- The Movie. Dir. PETER JOSEPH. G.M.P. LLC, 2008. DVD.


Is Christianity a religion-derived from Sun worship?
Does Christianity and/or the Bible/Koran/Torah make references to
Greco-Roman and/or Egyptian dieties?
Do all Pagan religions "[assimilate] the beneficial concepts"?
Do Christianity and Judaism observe the equinoces and solstices?
Did Babylon have a "holy trinity" of sorts involving King Ninus and his
son?

Some of these question's answers may seem obvious, but I hate assuming so I try to just ask the stupid question rather than culture rape or remain
ignorant.  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:25 pm
I think there's probably someone else here more qualified to handle the connections between Christianity and paganism, but I'm an anthropologist so I think there are a couple things I can help with.

Firstly, this paper is flawed from the first sentence. Islam is the "biggest" religion in terms of number of members. Even with the bibliography, which is small for such a subject, the lack of in-text citations makes this argument impossible to follow scholastically. If I tried to turn in a paper like this my prof would look me up and down and tell me that I really am smoking too much dope.

Second, there is no theory used whatsoever. This is a paper about interesting coincidences that occur between a contemporary interpretation of Christianity and what little we know about pre-historic religions. Of course these coincidences would occur astrologically, because everyone who lives at a similar latitude is looking at the same ******** sky. Very smart people have come up with procedures that are helpful when you're doing cross-cultural comparisons. We stand on the shoulders of giants.

Thrid, the agricultural revolution shifted huge chunks of the world from devotion to mysticism to devotion to the sun, which made the crops grow. In Mesopotamia, this occurred before even the Babylonian period (2300-612 BC), in the Eridu society (5300–4700 BC).

Fourth, if I wanted to find actual congruency between the two, I would look in the places where they communicated. I honestly don't know how much Judaism was influenced by Babylonian society, but Christianity was spread largely by the Romans into Europe.  

FlySammyJ

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:34 pm
Where are we getting these numbers from? Last I checked, 1.6 billion Muslims vs 2.1 billion Christians makes Christianity the bigger religion.  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:41 pm
Well I was just going by what my religion profs told me a couple years ago, but I haven't seen any recent data. Has it changed that much in the last few years, or have the methods changed? I'm actually a little bit suspicious of global demographics in general.  

FlySammyJ

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Collowrath

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:20 pm
demisara
Well I was just going by what my religion profs told me a couple years ago, but I haven't seen any recent data. Has it changed that much in the last few years, or have the methods changed? I'm actually a little bit suspicious of global demographics in general.


About this time two years ago, there was stuff on the news informing us that Muslims now outnumbered Catholics by a whole heck of a lot. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:22 pm
Collowrath
demisara
Well I was just going by what my religion profs told me a couple years ago, but I haven't seen any recent data. Has it changed that much in the last few years, or have the methods changed? I'm actually a little bit suspicious of global demographics in general.


About this time two years ago, there was stuff on the news informing us that Muslims now outnumbered Catholics by a whole heck of a lot. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
Muslims altogether do, but that was kind of a stupid thing to say, because no one denomination of Muslims outnumbers Catholics, not even that huge majority one.  


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Collowrath

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:28 pm
Celeblin Galadeneryn
Collowrath
demisara
Well I was just going by what my religion profs told me a couple years ago, but I haven't seen any recent data. Has it changed that much in the last few years, or have the methods changed? I'm actually a little bit suspicious of global demographics in general.


About this time two years ago, there was stuff on the news informing us that Muslims now outnumbered Catholics by a whole heck of a lot. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
Muslims altogether do, but that was kind of a stupid thing to say, because no one denomination of Muslims outnumbers Catholics, not even that huge majority one.


I thought it was kinda silly - but some teachers at my old high school had some fun with it (the Turks seemed pretty chummy at the news).

I don't really know the ratio of Sunnis to Catholics, actually.  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:50 pm
Collowrath
Celeblin Galadeneryn
Collowrath
demisara
Well I was just going by what my religion profs told me a couple years ago, but I haven't seen any recent data. Has it changed that much in the last few years, or have the methods changed? I'm actually a little bit suspicious of global demographics in general.


About this time two years ago, there was stuff on the news informing us that Muslims now outnumbered Catholics by a whole heck of a lot. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
Muslims altogether do, but that was kind of a stupid thing to say, because no one denomination of Muslims outnumbers Catholics, not even that huge majority one.


I thought it was kinda silly - but some teachers at my old high school had some fun with it (the Turks seemed pretty chummy at the news).

I don't really know the ratio of Sunnis to Catholics, actually.
It depends what you mean by Catholic. I think Sunnis actually beat the Latin Rite by itself, but that's not the whole of Catholocism.  


Celeblin Galadeneryn


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niamhybeag

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:55 am
Hmm... not seeing any anthropological theory there...  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:34 am
I have little to contribute to this disscussion.
However I just wanted to comment upon one of the sources that the paper cites, Zeitgeist movie.
This is the same movie that asserts that 9/11 was an inside job, and people have microchips in their brains. It infuriates me more than most things.  

patch99329


FlySammyJ

Liberal Dabbler

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:29 pm
patch99329
I have little to contribute to this disscussion.
However I just wanted to comment upon one of the sources that the paper cites, Zeitgeist movie.
This is the same movie that asserts that 9/11 was an inside job, and people have microchips in their brains. It infuriates me more than most things.

For the record, I think the Pentagon crash is pretty effing questionable.  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:39 pm
demisara
patch99329
I have little to contribute to this disscussion.
However I just wanted to comment upon one of the sources that the paper cites, Zeitgeist movie.
This is the same movie that asserts that 9/11 was an inside job, and people have microchips in their brains. It infuriates me more than most things.

For the record, I think the Pentagon crash is pretty effing questionable.


I'm honestly not quite sure what to think of Zeitgeist the movie. I mean, the events surrounding 9/11 were kind of questionable, but I really don't know enough of the specifics to make a real opinion. I think the worst part about the movie was just that it seemed a little too shock-value-y to me. I just don't know what to make of it. I can, obviously, look it up for myself, but I never had THAT much interest in the why of what happened at 9/11 and I'm not saying that's good. I should be more concerned because I live in this country.

Does anyone else feel that way about the 9/11 portion of Zeitgeist?  

Synnthetika

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TheDisreputableDog

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:15 pm
Please give me actual research regarding this überspecial connection between Jesus and Horus. I keep finding this idea in various places and I just don't see it. Please show me that I am wrong. I really don't get it.  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:09 pm
TheDisreputableDog
Please give me actual research regarding this überspecial connection between Jesus and Horus. I keep finding this idea in various places and I just don't see it. Please show me that I am wrong. I really don't get it.
Can't give you what isn't there. wink  

TeaDidikai


Synnthetika

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:37 am
TheDisreputableDog
Please give me actual research regarding this überspecial connection between Jesus and Horus. I keep finding this idea in various places and I just don't see it. Please show me that I am wrong. I really don't get it.


This isn't my paper, it was emailed to all students enrolled in Dr. John Yard Anderson's Anthropology 101 course. The entire bibliography used is there so while the main source of the Jesus and Horus thing is Zeitgeist, from my understanding, I guess you would have to look at whatever sources Zeitgeist used. However, like Tea said, if it's not true, then you probably won't find any actual research for it.  
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