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 Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:46 pm
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-Saint Rai- Crimson Raccoon -Saint Rai- Crimson Raccoon MeXiCaN cOoKiE Football I see it as your not really religious if you can't respect other religions. We're not disrespecting other religions by saying that they worship a different God than we do. For the most part, members of those other religions would agree with us. There is no disrespect. However, others here are disrespecting us by telling us we worship the same God, when we don't. The vast majority of Christian teachers, for all time, have said we worship a different God. Shouldn't we as Christians be able to determine for ourselves whether we worship the same or a different God as the Muslims and Jews? Who can tell us otherwise, do they own the religion? -Saint Rai- Because your religion came from Judaism. Study history. talk2hand divineseraph Except for the ones that it is. Considering the fact that they have the same name, prophets and books. I have already explained at length the distinction between the modern Judaism and Christianity that began with Christ's teaching, earlier in this thread. I see it apparently hasn't convinced either of you, so I really would appreciate it if you could respond to what I said with where you disagree or an error that I made. Responding to each other is the only way anyone here, including each of you and myself, can develop their understanding of it all, isn't it? You fail to realize that we're not talking about "modern" Judaism. Try doing research on the origins of your religion and where the idea of the One God came from instead of listening to your pastor who is biased. biggrin I have probably done more research on my religion than you have ever done on anything, thanks. Why are you being so rude? I don't fail to realize that you're not talking about modern Judaism. Actually, people here were talking about modern Judaism. The discussion came up of whether all religions worship the same God, and one person mentioned that Jews believe (present tense) that Jesus is going to return (which is false, as I explained in my response). Obviously, they weren't talking about the Jews thousands of years ago, who hadn't even heard of Jesus yet. divineseraph in his post said, "they have the same name, prophets, and books," using the present tense "have" instead of "had," so he wasn't just talking about thousands of years ago, either. Maybe you were talking specifically about Judaism from 2,000 and more years ago, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to, and besides, you didn't actually make a point about it. I was talking about modern Judaism, since that's what was related to the discussion, and I was explaining that there is a difference between Judaism before Christ and Judaism after Christ. If you want to bring up an actual point about ancient Judaism instead of just making rude little quips, then please do. For "the origins of my religion and where the idea of the One God came from," the idea of one God is from Judaism, yes, but that idea is far from the concept that all religions worship the same God. In fact, the one God of the Bible himself specifically says that all other religions worship different gods. He even said some of the Jews were worshiping falsely in his own name. So, that is where the idea of one God came from, and that is the same idea I believe now. Everything the ancient Jews believed, Christians also believe, that's why the complete Old Testament is in our Bible, taking up about 80% of it. I like discussing with you, you've given good input and have raised good questions. I just don't understand why when you disagree you have to do it in such a belittling way. Everyone here, as far as I have seen, has been respectful to you. ummm Christians also believe he's going to come back. So are you saying they are also false?
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Well, what I meant was that it's false that Jew's think Jesus is going to come to earth. I would've gone into more detail here with what I meant, but I figured you had already read the other post where I explained it, because you had responded to it. You said, "how do you know that," and I replied, "how do I know what," and you never answered. So this thread is just getting very confusing.... sweatdrop |
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:09 am
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Crimson Raccoon MeXiCaN cOoKiE Football I see it as your not really religious if you can't respect other religions. We're not disrespecting other religions by saying that they worship a different God than we do. For the most part, members of those other religions would agree with us. There is no disrespect. However, others here are disrespecting us by telling us we worship the same God, when we don't. The vast majority of Christian teachers, for all time, have said we worship a different God. Shouldn't we as Christians be able to determine for ourselves whether we worship the same or a different God as the Muslims and Jews? Who can tell us otherwise, do they own the religion? -Saint Rai- Because your religion came from Judaism. Study history. talk2hand divineseraph Except for the ones that it is. Considering the fact that they have the same name, prophets and books. I have already explained at length the distinction between the modern Judaism and Christianity that began with Christ's teaching, earlier in this thread. I see it apparently hasn't convinced either of you, so I really would appreciate it if you could respond to what I said with where you disagree or an error that I made. Responding to each other is the only way anyone here, including each of you and myself, can develop their understanding of it all, isn't it?
Except, again, Jesus WAS a JEW. He BELIEVED IN the very same GOD as the JEWS, YHWH. That is why you have the same holy books. It's the same God, different views of how He operates. If someone thinks I'm nice and someone else thinks I'm an a*****e, I'm still the same person, it doesn't mean they are seeing two different people. They're interpreting what I do differently. |
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:03 pm
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:50 am
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divineseraph Crimson Raccoon I have already explained at length the distinction between the modern Judaism and Christianity that began with Christ's teaching, earlier in this thread. I see it apparently hasn't convinced either of you, so I really would appreciate it if you could respond to what I said with where you disagree or an error that I made. Responding to each other is the only way anyone here, including each of you and myself, can develop their understanding of it all, isn't it? Except, again, Jesus WAS a JEW. He BELIEVED IN the very same GOD as the JEWS, YHWH. That is why you have the same holy books. It's the same God, different views of how He operates.
Of course Jesus was Jew. I've written quite a bit in this thread about Jesus and his relationship and interaction to Judaism. If I have made an error, or if you disagree with any point I made, please bring it up.
The Bible has a few examples challenging your claim. Here's one from Exodus: After the Jews left Egypt, Moses was on Mt. Sinai with God and receiving the 10 Commandments. He had been up there for a long time, and the Jews didn't know what was going on. So, they built a golden calf and worshipped it. They called it YHWH. They claimed the golden calf was the one who had brought them out of Egypt, the one who had spoken to Abraham and made the covenant. "Behold, oh Israel, here is your God!" It doesn't matter if they beleived that they were worshipping the same god. They weren't. They were wrong; they should have known better, and their error was because of their lack of faith: they should have waited for Moses to come back rather than taking matters into their own hands.
That's how it is with Jews today. It doesn't matter if they use his name; or if they believe he has done all the things in the Old Testament; they have rejected God and so something else has taken his place. Instead of the Bible, they follow writings of rabbis, written after Christ came, as the guide to their living, writings which they don't even claim to be the Word of God. They don't have priests anymore; there's no temple; no altars; they don't make sacrifices. It is not the same religion that it was before Christ came. That's because Christ fulfilled that religion, and the true followers of it became what we call Christians.
Jesus came to the Jews, and thousands of them recognized him as the Messiah, the Lord. These were the Jews who were worshipping truly, the faithful remnant of Israel spoken of so many times in the Old Testament. The Jews who never came to accept him had never truly been worshipping God; they were like the Jews with the golden calf, or something worse. Anyone who reads the gospels will see this clearly; Jesus had so much criticism for the hypocracy that was prevelent in Israel when he came. The ones who were faithful, who numbered in the thousands, were those who accepted him. The ones who rejected him showed that they had already rejected God; otherwise they would have recognized him as the Messiah.
That may sound harsh, but that is precisely what Jesus taught about it, from his own words. (I explained it with more detail and examples in previous posts in this thread.) The strength of Christ's words should drive us to question ourselves, to make sure our own beliefs are sincere and match the teachings of the Bible.
The sad thing is, that many Christians today are equally hypocrital as the Jews were, and aren't truly following God; they are no better off than the Jews of today; in fact they are even worse, since they claim to follow Christ when they don't.
Jesus lamented over the lack of faith that people called "Christians" will have at the time of his second coming. He asks, "When the Son of Man comes, will he even find faith on earth?”
The Bible is filled, in both Old and New Testaments, with examples of false religion in the name of the true God. The name, the book, the history, the prophets, the building; all of them mean nothing if you do not have faith in your heart that the Lord is your salvation, if God is not your father, if you are not really following the teaching of his Word.
divineseraph If someone thinks I'm nice and someone else thinks I'm an a*****e, I'm still the same person, it doesn't mean they are seeing two different people. They're interpreting what I do differently.
If one person thinks you are nice, and another thinks you're an a*****e, yes you're still the same person. But would you take the person who thinks you're an a*****e to be a friend of yours? Of course not, you couldn't even if you wanted to, because they would refuse your attempt.
But we're not talking about people who think God is nice or an a*****e, we're talking about people who worship something and call it "God." If they think God is an a*****e, obviously they're not following or worshipping him...
But if they are worshipping something, does that automatically make it God? To follow your analogy, what if one person thinks you're a human, and another person thinks you're a frog. Are you still the same person? Yes. Are they both referring to you? Kind of, in a way; but one of them is somehow very off. Are they both right? No, they aren't; and the one who thinks you're a frog is doing nothing more than wasting a lot of time by looking for you in the pond.
No matter how hard they search for you, no matter how sincerely they try, they will not find you. This is because they are blinded by some false belief; in this case, the belief that you are a frog. So it is with false religion. They spend their time worshipping something that is not God. Believing it to be God does not make it so, no more than a person believing you to be a frog makes you a frog. When they find a frog, as naturally happens when one spends enough time looking around a pond, does that mean they have found you? No, they have found something else, and it has taken your place.
Now that they have accepted the frog to be you, they could see the real you face to face, and still not recognize you. The Pharisees and other Jews who rejected Jesus had seen the Christ, the one they had been waiting for, the Son of God, face to face; and yet they did not recognize him. It's because they weren't looking for the kind of person God really is: one who forgives sins, not based on our own merit or how "good" we are, but because of his own grace, because of his love for us. One who will call us his brother or sister, his friend; who will put his very spirit to dwell within us as his temple. This was not the kind of God they were looking for, and not the one they wanted; and so when this stood before them, they could not see. Of all the world religions, only Christianity has this kind of a God. The others are worshipping something else. But here, we have been told of the true God; the freedom to accept him is given to us while we have this life. The true God has standards so high that, because of our sinfulness, we cannot possibly earn his love; but he will give it freely and has provided our way of salvation, in the sacrifice of his son, Jesus Christ. By his love, he is the only one worthy of our worship; there is no one else, no other idea of a God as loving. |
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:45 am
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Zerotheslayer marzipancakes Are super closed-minded and think that your religion is THE ONLY RIGHT WAY. If so; you make me sad. That's technically insulting us...and saying that whatever way you believe is the right way, and that we'd be closed minded for not accepting it, when you didn't even put at least in that post what you believe the right way is...So basically it's like you've just come in here and posted something looking for a fight or to be bashed or for the slightest disagreement so that you can turn around and put others down...when technically you're not even really taking a stand for your own beliefs or anyone elses...By not putting down what you believe the right way is, and saying that anyone believes that the way they believe is the right way that basically they're closed minded and wrong...that's basically saying that any way you want to live is the right way... ...so technically if we're all right...Then all our methods work...and if I wanted to live life murdering whoever I please and stealing everything I think I need and everything I want...that's still the right way to live, and everyone who disagrees is closed minded... That's basically what I get out of that little post. Maybe you should be more careful about what you post. |
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