help, please

[claireece]

Hi, all.
Lately, I have been having some trouble with my faith.
At this point, I'm not even sure why. I hope, however, that by piecing together different parts of things, Ican rededicate myself to Christ.

How long ago was the earth created? Do science and religion agree on this matter?
Did God create the animals we see today? If so, why are there fossils of prehistoric animals?
What is the exact timeline of creation? Seven days, right? So why does science place animals' creation millions (or billions) of years before humans?
Was Adam a caveman? (I know its a bit silly, but why are there existing skulls and skeletons if God created us how we are today, and evolution never occured?)

Please, answer my questions, because i want to believe.  

[Icestar03]

lots of questions....i'm not an expert, but sometimes you don't get all the answers. that's when FATH steps in... sorry if i didn't help confused  

[kitsunegami]

Science vs Religion

I can't answer most of your questions because the answers simply aren't known but I'll tell you what I can.

I am one of many scientific Christians. I have a degree in engineering and even though I am disabled and unable to work anymore I still study as much science as I can because I enjoy it. As such, I don't see anything as a "science vs. religion" issue. In fact, many scientists who are looking into the origin of life and the universe are becoming Christians because "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Rom 1:20 NASB). There's nothing quite like examing God's creations to bring you closer to Him.

-----

Age of the Earth

We don't know for sure how old the earth is. Carbon dating gives us a pretty good idea of how old things are but the process is not infallible.

At this point all we have are theories. Old Earth Creationists agree with most evolutionists that the earth is ancient. But there are also Young Earth Creationists who think the earth is only a few thousand years old.

-----

Calendar of Creation

God created time for our benefit so he exists outside of time ("with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day" (2 Pet 3:8b NASB)). He could have created the entire universe in the blink of an eye or he could have stretched the process out over a long period of time.

I think that's why there are slightly different orders of creation in Genesis 1 and 2 and why the Genesis 2 account makes no mention of the seven day time period. How God made the universe is not important. How long it took God to make the universe is not important. The only important detail is that God made the universe.

-----

For further reading

I suggest you read The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel. Strobel became an athiest in college after he was force-fed darwinian evolution as fact. He finally decided to take a second look at the research with an open mind and came to the conclusion that the universe must have been created. The Case for a Creator chronicles his journey and records his interviews with the scientists who helped him find the truth.  

[Dcaff]

kitsunegami

Science vs Religion

I can't answer most of your questions because the answers simply aren't known but I'll tell you what I can.

I am one of many scientific Christians. I have a degree in engineering and even though I am disabled and unable to work anymore I still study as much science as I can because I enjoy it. As such, I don't see anything as a "science vs. religion" issue. In fact, many scientists who are looking into the origin of life and the universe are becoming Christians because "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Rom 1:20 NASB). There's nothing quite like examing God's creations to bring you closer to Him.

-----

Age of the Earth

We don't know for sure how old the earth is. Carbon dating gives us a pretty good idea of how old things are but the process is not infallible.

At this point all we have are theories. Old Earth Creationists agree with most evolutionists that the earth is ancient. But there are also Young Earth Creationists who think the earth is only a few thousand years old.

-----

Calendar of Creation

God created time for our benefit so he exists outside of time ("with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day" (2 Pet 3:8b NASB)). He could have created the entire universe in the blink of an eye or he could have stretched the process out over a long period of time.

I think that's why there are slightly different orders of creation in Genesis 1 and 2 and why the Genesis 2 account makes no mention of the seven day time period. How God made the universe is not important. How long it took God to make the universe is not important. The only important detail is that God made the universe.

-----

For further reading

I suggest you read The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel. Strobel became an athiest in college after he was force-fed darwinian evolution as fact. He finally decided to take a second look at the research with an open mind and came to the conclusion that the universe must have been created. The Case for a Creator chronicles his journey and records his interviews with the scientists who helped him find the truth.

Great Insight!  

[Dcaff]

Also, might I add an observation?

It is my ever-growing experience that my faith, the honest, deep, strong relationship I have with God is not all that dependent on cold hard facts. Although of course what can be observed of God's creation will never contradict who he is, it won't always make sense to us either. It is beneficial in many ways to explore, to see what is out there. Our world is fascinating and people's takes on how it all makes sense are fascinating but none of it will ever bring you to a place where you completely understand.

Don't ever forget that the main issue is Jesus and the doctrine of salvation. All other things are secondary. Some things scripture tells us are vague and therefore are left open to all sorts of discussion, oftentimes they result in people splitting off from one another and forming new denominations. It is said that a church once split because they couldn't come to an agreement on whether or not Adam had a belly button! I mean really, how important to your faith is that question? It isn't unfair to say that when we run into places in scripture where there isn't much explanation, it is because it simply isn't necessary for us to know.

I understand that in school we are taught evolution and that we live in an extremely old universe. Could be true, maybe not! There are a lot of theories about the beginning of creation and how things came to be, even amongst Christians, much like there are many views about how things will end!

For an interesting read, although not the easiest read ever, I recommend"The Genesis Record" By Henry M. Morris. It is a commentary on the Book of Genesis written by a man who was a Scientist as well as a Christian and makes some pretty interesting observations about things like evolution, creation, the age of the universe etc.

Just don't forget, its all about Jesus! Whatever else you debate, keep his word close to your heart. Don't worry about the fact that you need a little piece of mind, a little "see it to believe it" mixed in with your faith. After all, Thomas wouldn't believe Jesus had risen until he was able to touch Jesus and feel for himself the holes in his hands. And how did Jesus respond? He didn't freak out or yell at him for not having enough faith...he was happy to prove it to Thomas and he'll be happy to prove it to you!  

[Duroonsia]

How long ago was the earth created? Do science and religion agree on this matter?
Did God create the animals we see today? If so, why are there fossils of prehistoric animals?
What is the exact timeline of creation? Seven days, right? So why does science place animals' creation millions (or billions) of years before humans?
Was Adam a caveman? (I know its a bit silly, but why are there existing skulls and skeletons if God created us how we are today, and evolution never occured?)

This is based on my ideas. I don't know how old the earth is.
Yes he did. I don't know about the fossils that well, but I think I read somewhere in the bible that angels or demons were creating animals that God didn't apparently want, so that when the great flood came 2 of every animal that God created was taken on the raft, and any other angel/demon made animals were left behind. So they died. And they are under the earth and in that condition because of the flood.
Pretty sure that it was seven days. I don't really know.
That I don't know. It might be the people from before the flood.

These are just my ideas. If anything is wrong, tell me.  

[thrashmetaljunkie]

Faith is believing in what cannot be seen. If Jesus lived here among us, and revealed himself... Then what need would we have of faith? perhaps you should start with devotionals. Reading the bible, and praying. Dont be afraid to go to Jesus, he'll answer. Granted, he won't give you all the answers you seek... somethings are not meant to be known. but just take sometime to talk with God... Perhaps that'll help.  

[kitsunegami]

Dcaff

Also, might I add an observation?

It is my ever-growing experience that my faith, the honest, deep, strong relationship I have with God is not all that dependent on cold hard facts. Although of course what can be observed of God's creation will never contradict who he is, it won't always make sense to us either. It is beneficial in many ways to explore, to see what is out there. Our world is fascinating and people's takes on how it all makes sense are fascinating but none of it will ever bring you to a place where you completely understand.

Don't ever forget that the main issue is Jesus and the doctrine of salvation. All other things are secondary. Some things scripture tells us are vague and therefore are left open to all sorts of discussion, oftentimes they result in people splitting off from one another and forming new denominations. It is said that a church once split because they couldn't come to an agreement on whether or not Adam had a belly button! I mean really, how important to your faith is that question? It isn't unfair to say that when we run into places in scripture where there isn't much explanation, it is because it simply isn't necessary for us to know.

I understand that in school we are taught evolution and that we live in an extremely old universe. Could be true, maybe not! There are a lot of theories about the beginning of creation and how things came to be, even amongst Christians, much like there are many views about how things will end!

For an interesting read, although not the easiest read ever, I recommend"The Genesis Record" By Henry M. Morris. It is a commentary on the Book of Genesis written by a man who was a Scientist as well as a Christian and makes some pretty interesting observations about things like evolution, creation, the age of the universe etc.

Just don't forget, its all about Jesus! Whatever else you debate, keep his word close to your heart. Don't worry about the fact that you need a little piece of mind, a little "see it to believe it" mixed in with your faith. After all, Thomas wouldn't believe Jesus had risen until he was able to touch Jesus and feel for himself the holes in his hands. And how did Jesus respond? He didn't freak out or yell at him for not having enough faith...he was happy to prove it to Thomas and he'll be happy to prove it to you!

well said.  

[Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori]

b u t t o n m o n k i

Hi, all.
Lately, I have been having some trouble with my faith.
At this point, I'm not even sure why. I hope, however, that by piecing together different parts of things, Ican rededicate myself to Christ.

How long ago was the earth created? Do science and religion agree on this matter?

The Earth is about 4.3 billion years old. Science is clear on this. The Bible does not dispute this; it's purpose is to give us moral, not historical teachings.

Quote:

Did God create the animals we see today? If so, why are there fossils of prehistoric animals?

He created the original life, and the system for creating new life. In that sense, he did create the current animals.

Quote:

What is the exact timeline of creation? Seven days, right? So why does science place animals' creation millions (or billions) of years before humans?

Because the Bible is not literal in this passage.

Quote:

Was Adam a caveman? (I know its a bit silly, but why are there existing skulls and skeletons if God created us how we are today, and evolution never occured?)

I doubt it. Rather than accepting that Adam truly existed, I would go with the interpretation that the original Adam&Eve story was a parable for the creation of sin, and the factual accounts later, of their descendants, did not refer to the same pair but rather to two people later on, who were the original ancestors for the line of Abraham, then Joseph, then the Israelites, then David, then Jesus. It goes down a while.

Please, answer my questions, because i want to believe.  

[missymisa]

faith is believing what you cannot see, you just have to trust God  

[IcarusDream]

etchedspirit

faith is believing what you cannot see, you just have to trust God

Most Saints and Theologians would disagree. Blind faith should have nothing to do with it. 'Rational' thought led many historical figures to the conclusion that God existed, or that, if it wasn't the Christian God, then it was certainly some sort of 'Primal Cause' or 'Primal Conserver.'  

[Tarrou]

b u t t o n m o n k i

How long ago was the earth created? Do science and religion agree on this matter?

Earth is about 4.5 billion years old (based on radiometric dating) and the universe is about 13.7 billion years old (based on physics that I'm honestly not versed in). Whether science and religion (for the sake of brevity, I'm going to limit myself to Christianity here) agree on this depends on how you read the book of Genesis. If you insist on Genesis being a literal account of creation, then, no, they do not agree; however, if you accept a more metaphorical interpretation, then there is no inherent conflict between religion and science.

b u t t o n m o n k i

Did God create the animals we see today? If so, why are there fossils of prehistoric animals?

Again, that depends on a number of factors. From a purely scientific perspective, it's pretty clear that that today's organisms have not been around since the beginnings of life on earth, and that many, many earlier lifeforms have long since gone extinct. A more theistic answer would be that, yes, God created modern day creatures, but did so by steering the process of evolution in the direction he desired (see also Theistic Evolution).
Finally, biblical literalists will tell you that God just created everything exactly as you see it today, and 'prehistoric' creatures just died in the Noahide flood. This is utter tosh. Ignore it.

b u t t o n m o n k i

What is the exact timeline of creation? Seven days, right? So why does science place animals' creation millions (or billions) of years before humans?

Seven days is the biblical timeline, but there's a good chance that it, like a lot of Genesis, is a metaphor rather than a literal account. Consider that in Genesis 1 three days pass before the creation of the sun, which either suggests that the author was utterly ignorant of the workings of our solar system, or that, in transmitting the narrative of creation, God employed a metaphorical lie-to-children in place of a literal and (to the early Jews) utterly incomprehensible account of the true mechanics of creation. See also Day-Age Creationism.

b u t t o n m o n k i

Was Adam a caveman?

Assuming that Adam was a literal person and not just a stand in for all early humans and/or human-like apes, then yes, after his expulsion from Eden, Adam would most likely have been a caveman at first. I think it rather more likely that Adam represents the first beings to make the evolutionary jump from human-ancestors to full-fledged homo sapiens, though. So, again, probably.

As I always do, I highly recommend Baruch Spinoza's Theologico-Political Treatise, specifically the chapter on miracles for a novel take on God's relationship with nature and its laws.

kitsunegami

We don't know for sure how old the earth is. Carbon dating gives us a pretty good idea of how old things are but the process is not infallible.

Quick note: you're thinking of radiometric dating, not radiocarbon dating. The latter only works when dating organic materials fewer than 60,000 years old (after 60,000 years, there's no C14 left and all we can tell is that the sample is older than 60,000 years) and as such is of no use in dating rocks. Suffice to say, though, radiometric dating of meteorites and lunar rocks has consistently returned data that tell us that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old.  

[kitsunegami]

Tarrou

kitsunegami

We don't know for sure how old the earth is. Carbon dating gives us a pretty good idea of how old things are but the process is not infallible.

Quick note: you're thinking of radiometric dating, not radiocarbon dating. The latter only works when dating organic materials fewer than 60,000 years old (after 60,000 years, there's no C14 left and all we can tell is that the sample is older than 60,000 years) and as such is of no use in dating rocks. Suffice to say, though, radiometric dating of meteorites and lunar rocks has consistently returned data that tell us that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

I've been out of college way too long... getting forgetful in my old age. 8o)  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

Thing is, if you want to have faith, you gotta throw away belief. Faith is the leap beyond... And possibly the extreme. But if you want to know our origins...
No, Adam was not a caveman.
We have no complete compilation of when the earth began
Science shience, you know, they could get an ape's skeletal structure confused with a human's. Forget about it.
As for the sever days... Think about it, it's as illogical as "eternal" matter actually causing an accident like that. Even if our omnipotent "God" didn't exist, the matter would still serve the purpose, however... life may only be bred by life, and that is the law of DNA. (Well, except for the sandwich I left in the fridge last year. Poor thing ran away... crying )
But these fragile words don't matter if you want to believe. You want to know something sad? Most people ask these questions, but stop at the present. You want to know why there is a God? Look at mankind searching throughout history for something bigger. I digress, even science has served this purpose. There is a God, whether we see Him or not.
*gets off soap box*