On the Quality and Intention of Words

[kage no neko]

maenad nuri

The concept of privilege is that the situation is not fair to begin with. Let's move back to the college example. You say it should be entirely about grades.
Person A and B both get straight A's and max out their respective potential GPA, and get equal scores on college entrance exams.

Person A is from a high income, highly funded school district and has been able to take AP classes and get a 5.0 on a 4.0 scale. They also have well funded sports and arts programs, and has been able to take advantage of it.

Person B comes from a rural, poor area. There are no AP classes and very little in the way of arts, or sports beyond football. They've earned a 4.0.

It's not fair, it's not equal because of person A's privilege. Should person B get extra consideration in college admissions

Then shouldn't they both be admitted, instead of having to compete, and have others who didn't get as good of grades be rejected instead?

Quote:

Then they are doing it wrong. It's about leveling the playing field. Which only looks like the privileged are getting shafted, since it takes a little bit more work to get what was easy before.

I don't understand why it hasn't been like that all along, that more work equals more reward..  

[maenad nuri]

kage no neko

I suppose when I finally get around to going to college, I might take one of those Women's Studies courses, to maybe help me understand the situation better. Since right now I'm sitting here thinking how stupid the situation is, and I don't really understand the situation besides how I've gotten to view it through my life. I think that's why I view it how I do, because I don't know enough about it to be able to understand it.

This is the best start you can make, actually. My journey into privilege started with learning binary opposition in English 100, tripled after meeting Deo, got a crash course from a Philosophy of sex and values class and lots of reading.

Starting from a position of "I don't understand but I want to try" is good. We want that. It's easier to forgive ******** when you are sincerely trying.  

[maenad nuri]

kage no neko

maenad nuri

The concept of privilege is that the situation is not fair to begin with. Let's move back to the college example. You say it should be entirely about grades.
Person A and B both get straight A's and max out their respective potential GPA, and get equal scores on college entrance exams.

Person A is from a high income, highly funded school district and has been able to take AP classes and get a 5.0 on a 4.0 scale. They also have well funded sports and arts programs, and has been able to take advantage of it.

Person B comes from a rural, poor area. There are no AP classes and very little in the way of arts, or sports beyond football. They've earned a 4.0.

It's not fair, it's not equal because of person A's privilege. Should person B get extra consideration in college admissions

Then shouldn't they both be admitted, instead of having to compete, and have others who didn't get as good of grades be rejected instead?

Sorry, last two people to chose from, for one spot in a program. Only one can get in. Hypothetically speaking.

Quote:

Quote:

Then they are doing it wrong. It's about leveling the playing field. Which only looks like the privileged are getting shafted, since it takes a little bit more work to get what was easy before.

I don't understand why it hasn't been like that all along, that more work equals more reward..

Because kyriarchy doesn't relent. People in power want to stay in power and will do whatever they can to stay that way.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

kage no neko

Is someone supposed to be blamed for this though?

I never feel this is about blaming, but instead it is about being aware and making changes that allow for those who are at a disadvantage to be on equal footing.

kage no neko

I heard it from my counselor, about colleges I was looking at.

I wish that myth wouldn't be perpetuated. It's very damaging to others.

kage no neko

I know in some colleges they are. I'll go look for them later if you want me to. Unless something has changed?

It's possible it has changed, but the basis for Affirmative Action has been based on equally qualified applicants. It is possible also that the situation Maenad Nuri's example contributes to the misunderstanding.

kage no neko

I realize I'm part minority because I'm female. I don't understand why that should give me an unfair advantage compared to a male.

Except it isn't an unfair advantage. It's institutionalized fairness, because our society shows a preference for you and I to not get the jobs we are competing for against others.

My first job was at a book store. In my mother's day she would not have even been considered for the position because she was a woman, and it hasn't changed as much as we would like.

kage no neko

What is the truth then?

That Affirmative Action is based on equally qualified applicants. I feel it exists because our beliefs and attitudes towards people haven't changed as much as we would like. I have to continuously check in with myself to see if my attitudes are based on the privilege I do have, even when I am underprivileged in other areas.

Since it isn't a level playing field, Affirmative Action exists so that ingrained social privilege doesn't continue to use separation as a tool to hurt others by denying them the same chances that are given to different groups because of their privilege.

kage no neko

Ah. I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking more of racial things, like the black people saying that "my ancestors were slaves, you owe me money!"

I have never in my life heard anyone say that. I have heard people suggest that America needs to do things to ensure that our history doesn't put groups at a disadvantage, and that as a result, they support Affirmative Action.

The closest thing I have heard that is like what you have said was in relation to the United States Internment Camps from World World II, wherein the government seized the property of US Citizens who were of Asian and Native American ancestry.

kage no neko

I REALLY don't understand the issue with gay marriage, or gay anything. I don't understand why people insist on protesting things that have nothing to do with them, that won't ever affect them. I'm sorry about your ex. In that case, I'd probably tell the people who were mean against her to get the ******** over themselves and mind their own business.

If you understand that it is mean to treat her poorly because of who we love, and it's mean to treat you poorly because of your skin tone when you were living in your apartment complex, can you understand why it is mean to treat others poorly in general?

kage no neko

I just think the whole idea is silly. Why in the 21st century, in America, we still have this nonsense.. factual or imagined concept, I still don't understand it.

I feel it is still this way because people are comfortable with things the way they are.

kage no neko

neutral I just think it's extremely unfair, and that the Native Americans deserve something like that more..

I feel you're right.

I guess the next question is, what are you going to do to help that happen?

kage no neko

I suppose when I finally get around to going to college, I might take one of those Women's Studies courses, to maybe help me understand the situation better. Since right now I'm sitting here thinking how stupid the situation is, and I don't really understand the situation besides how I've gotten to view it through my life. I think that's why I view it how I do, because I don't know enough about it to be able to understand it.

I feel that's a fair understanding of the situation.

Maybe we could talk more here or in PMs and explore it together?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

maenad nuri

I do want to thank everyone (with the exception of Beorc and his flounce, which amused me greatly this morning) for having this conversation calmly. It helps!

Thank you for the encouragement and the resources. I haven't read the blog you posted before and I found it very interesting.  

[maenad nuri]

As long as everything stays civil, I would love you guys to continue in here. If you both feel comfortable.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Okay I've been lurking in this thread for a while and I don't have anything super substantial to add, but I want to thank everyone for having this discussion because communicating about these issues really restores my faith in humanity.

I agree with the general consensus that intent is the primary determinant of harmful language. Harmful words can be reclaimed to some extent with positive intent, but negative intent (or even ignorance, which is indicative of a larger problem than just one bigoted individual) can turn any statement into one that's hurtful.

A personal example:
I remember being told by my father, when I was starting grade school, that at some points in my life people were going to treat me unfairly because of who I am. My parents are of different races, and I am lucky (or unlucky) enough to have an ambiguous appearance to the point where I'm often mistaken for being of a race that has no part of my genetic background.

I have not yet been subject to any overtly harmful language. And perhaps, by my father's standards, that's a measure of progress in American race relations. The problem I face is more insidious, though. Whereever I have interactions with the public, mostly at work, but also getting my hair cut, at the grocery store, among friends-of-friends, I have occasionally been asked The Question:
"What are you?"
There's nothing inherent in any of those words that makes them harmful, but the intent comes from racial privilege that renders multiracial people invisible, and every time I hear that What a little part of me feels Othered, dehumanized and dead.
I'm also fond of the totally loaded question "Where are you from?" to which I invariably respond, "here."

There are perfectly acceptable, polite, not harmful ways to inquire about someone's genetic background. But it always seems to be strangers asking me these questions, and their intent is to label me as the exotic Other, simply because they are ignorant of the existence of the multiracial identity.

Unfortunately on these occasions what I should do is educate these people on how to ask these questions and the fact that you do not come up to a stranger and ask these questions at the ******** public library, but I am usually too angry, embarassed, and ashamed to give them a coherent lecture, and instead deflect them. But! Threads like this one give me hope that if I do get up the courage to talk to nosy people intelligently and correctly about race, they might just be willing to listen.  

[kage no neko]

maenad nuri

This is the best start you can make, actually. My journey into privilege started with learning binary opposition in English 100, tripled after meeting Deo, got a crash course from a Philosophy of sex and values class and lots of reading.

Starting from a position of "I don't understand but I want to try" is good. We want that. It's easier to forgive ******** when you are sincerely trying.

Not knowing and not understanding is very frustrating to me. Learning is extremely enjoyable and makes me feel better about myself.

maenad nuri

Sorry, last two people to chose from, for one spot in a program. Only one can get in. Hypothetically speaking.

Then they should both be denied.. I guess. I think that'd be more fair.

maenad nuri

Because kyriarchy doesn't relent. People in power want to stay in power and will do whatever they can to stay that way.

I just fail to see how anyone has power right now, besides the upper class. And that power is completely based on money.

Brass Bell Doll

It's possible it has changed, but the basis for Affirmative Action has been based on equally qualified applicants. It is possible also that the situation Maenad Nuri's example contributes to the misunderstanding.

That'd make sense.

Brass Bell Doll

Except it isn't an unfair advantage. It's institutionalized fairness, because our society shows a preference for you and I to not get the jobs we are competing for against others.

My first job was at a book store. In my mother's day she would not have even been considered for the position because she was a woman, and it hasn't changed as much as we would like.

Yes, my neighbor (who is almost 90) was telling me how once she got pregnant, she had to become a stay-at-home mom, because that's what was expected of her. Screwy. I would like to think it's changed since then. Especially since I've personally seen more women working at a book store than men. But that might also vary by your location.

Brass Bell Doll

That Affirmative Action is based on equally qualified applicants. I feel it exists because our beliefs and attitudes towards people haven't changed as much as we would like. I have to continuously check in with myself to see if my attitudes are based on the privilege I do have, even when I am underprivileged in other areas.

Since it isn't a level playing field, Affirmative Action exists so that ingrained social privilege doesn't continue to use separation as a tool to hurt others by denying them the same chances that are given to different groups because of their privilege.

I don't usually ever check to see something like that. I try to treat everyone equally, I don't see why people deserve ranks.

Brass Bell Doll

I have never in my life heard anyone say that. I have heard people suggest that America needs to do things to ensure that our history doesn't put groups at a disadvantage, and that as a result, they support Affirmative Action.

The closest thing I have heard that is like what you have said was in relation to the United States Internment Camps from World World II, wherein the government seized the property of US Citizens who were of Asian and Native American ancestry.

I have. I think it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, that people owe them for what their ancestors MAY have done. I've known black people who hate white people for the whole slavery situation, whether those people had ancestors who were slave owners or not.

Brass Bell Doll

If you understand that it is mean to treat her poorly because of who we love, and it's mean to treat you poorly because of your skin tone when you were living in your apartment complex, can you understand why it is mean to treat others poorly in general?

Of course. I see it as give and return (probably the worst way to phrase it, but I'll explain!). I treat someone nicely, I expect to have it returned. Why would I expect something from someone that I wouldn't be willing to do/give myself? Though I can't EXPECT it back, but it's nice when it's returned. And that just makes it all the more worth it.

Brass Bell Doll

I feel it is still this way because people are comfortable with things the way they are.

Obviously people aren't, or else there wouldn't be such a fuss over it all.

Brass Bell Doll

I feel you're right.

I guess the next question is, what are you going to do to help that happen?

I can't do anything for anyone right now. I have to fix my own problems before I can help anyone else. But once I'm able to, I suppose I'll look into WHAT I can do to change/improve the situation.

Brass Bell Doll

I feel that's a fair understanding of the situation.

Maybe we could talk more here or in PMs and explore it together?

PM's are always welcome with me. smile Besides that I have to go in a few and would still like to continue this.

maenad nuri

As long as everything stays civil, I would love you guys to continue in here. If you both feel comfortable.

That's also fine with me. But I apologize in advanced if I insult anyone at all. I really don't mean to, and I know I have a bad tendency to word things wrong.


-Edited-  

[kage no neko]

AvalonAuggie

Okay I've been lurking in this thread for a while and I don't have anything super substantial to add, but I want to thank everyone for having this discussion because communicating about these issues really restores my faith in humanity.

I agree with the general consensus that intent is the primary determinant of harmful language. Harmful words can be reclaimed to some extent with positive intent, but negative intent (or even ignorance, which is indicative of a larger problem than just one bigoted individual) can turn any statement into one that's hurtful.

A personal example:
I remember being told by my father, when I was starting grade school, that at some points in my life people were going to treat me unfairly because of who I am. My parents are of different races, and I am lucky (or unlucky) enough to have an ambiguous appearance to the point where I'm often mistaken for being of a race that has no part of my genetic background.

I have not yet been subject to any overtly harmful language. And perhaps, by my father's standards, that's a measure of progress in American race relations. The problem I face is more insidious, though. Whereever I have interactions with the public, mostly at work, but also getting my hair cut, at the grocery store, among friends-of-friends, I have occasionally been asked The Question:
"What are you?"
There's nothing inherent in any of those words that makes them harmful, but the intent comes from racial privilege that renders multiracial people invisible, and every time I hear that What a little part of me feels Othered, dehumanized and dead.
I'm also fond of the totally loaded question "Where are you from?" to which I invariably respond, "here."

There are perfectly acceptable, polite, not harmful ways to inquire about someone's genetic background. But it always seems to be strangers asking me these questions, and their intent is to label me as the exotic Other, simply because they are ignorant of the existence of the multiracial identity.

Unfortunately on these occasions what I should do is educate these people on how to ask these questions and the fact that you do not come up to a stranger and ask these questions at the ******** public library, but I am usually too angry, embarassed, and ashamed to give them a coherent lecture, and instead deflect them. But! Threads like this one give me hope that if I do get up the courage to talk to nosy people intelligently and correctly about race, they might just be willing to listen.

I've been curious myself about some people, but unless I actually know them, like.. as a friend or at least decent acquaintance, I think it's rude. It's about as rude, if not more so, than pointing at someone and talking loudly about them.

But if you don't mind me asking.. How would you rather someone word that, so that it doesn't insult you?  

[AvalonAuggie]

kage no neko

I've been curious myself about some people, but unless I actually know them, like.. as a friend or at least decent acquaintance, I think it's rude. It's about as rude, if not more so, than pointing at someone and talking loudly about them.

But if you don't mind me asking.. How would you rather someone word that, so that it doesn't insult you?

the exact phrase "If you don't mind me asking" is a great way to start, since that confirms that you're talking to another person who you respect as a human being. It seriously warms the cockles of my heart when I hear that. biggrin

Beyond that the safest choice is to ask your acquaintance if they're multiracial or multi-ethnic or identify as such. This language is inclusive of the fact that people of all sorts of backgrounds exist. Many Americans who identify as multiracial have African-American and Caucasian heritage (I'm one of them) but their self-labeling is shaped by vastly different cultural circumstances than someone who has, say, Asian and Latin@ heritage. Or Dutch and Jamaican heritage. And there can be an assumption that when someone is "mixed" that they're the classic black/white mix. (Much like someone who has limited knowledge of paganism assuming a Pagan they meet is Wiccan).

Basically what I'm trying to say, in a horribly rambly way, is that reactions to any question about race are going to vary from individual to individual, which is why it's both polite and smart to get to know someone a bit before you have these conversations. And inclusive language is good.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Brass Bell Doll

Ishtar Shakti

Or you could argue that you should break the negative mental associations that people adhere to certain words.

My ex went to therapy for years and still hasn't overcome her panic disorder. She has gotten a lot better, but it is a process. I don't feel that your desire to use a word should be placed over the very real effects it has on her, despite your intention towards her or her intention to overcome the harmful effects of other's actions.

I know that its a process, and that the process takes time. I know that I am impatient and it may sound as if I am screaming Do All This NOW! But in truth I more would like people to just get used to the concept.

If people can't even think of letting go of the meaning of a word... if they believe Soo strongly in this doctrine then latter in life their may be issues.

Habituation is a Powerful thing. I argue a concept, I don't use racist terminology much for the reasons I stated earlier about teaching children within a proper context. I try to only cuss in casual settings etc. where people are used to my manerism's.

Its much like when you know a persons afraid of spiders you don't scream the word spider in their presence. But at the same time... you have to work at Not Reinforcing the Fear aspect.

Their are secondary and tertiary reinforcers which come into play with learned behaviors. I think it would be a better conversation more why the words continue to have the meaning they do rather then what the words mean and what affects it has on some people. I also think that you shouldn't Pan classifications... you should break it down into who is affected and Why. Once you realize why people are affected in the way they are its much easier to understand why they are supporting an existing system.

Like your self, you in a way are generalizing your love of your ex and the visible affects that words had on her and bringing them into the conversation. It is valid support for the affect of words but at the same time think more why it affected her the way it did. What beliefs she had that were deeply instilled and why they were their. What was supporting their continued existence and the efforts that doctors and therapists were making to break the hold that her fear had on her.

Think about words as a sort of epidemic... deeply instilled beliefs in the meaning of things which spreads between individuals. Hatred is seen, people personalize negative beliefs bringing them into their own spectrum of belief. Rationalizing hatred personalizing it.
Its not the word its the person... People Use words to Symbolize their personal feelings which they were Taught.

They were taught this meaning, instilled in the teaching in the sharing of knowledge is the hate. Its a hard thing to break... You should know that

Thus I try to not deal with people who have years and years of conditioned responses and beliefs and focus more on children with whom only have a much shorter span of time and still have the mental plasticity needed to change those instilled beliefs! <3 children, Whats even More depressing is when children start developing a phobia and people just keep Fostering it. Allowing it to take root and meaning in a persons psyche and to even support the fear response by helping them rationalize it etc. But thats a different topic. Panic Disorders are interesting things though... they tend to reaffirm themselves  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Quote:

I feel you are correct, but I also feel that the effects of that energy do not begin and end with the syllables.

If a person uses the same intent as the slur, they are at least not compounding the use with the framework that is part of the implicate meaning of the word.

Agreed

Quote:

I feel I am paying attention to the energy of linguistics.
But I am paying attention to the far reaching energy, and not that single instance.

In your example, a person can say African American with the same hatred they can impart with slurs, but will that carry with it the fear and pain and suffering of the energetic signature present in the slur itself?

It depends on the internal associations of the person. In some instances it may depending on the person. If I pay attention to the far reaching energy (meaning the energy of the people it hits and the cascading affect) you can find a myriad of reactions depending on those who are listening and the audience at hand. Some people may be oblivious to the fact that the person is feeling derogatory.... I have found that in some of my classes where there have been racist teachers the students tend to be oblivious and may miss the nuance of the pronunciation. Sometimes certain words have a deeper depth so even if the word touched on the concept of slavery it would be the person Speaking it view on slavery which might have a myriad of deeper hidden contexts. I mean a person speaks one word and you can sometimes Tell Alot about their beliefs but for the most part its singular.

It also depends on what energy your paying attention to so we might want to be more specific?

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Ishtar Shakti

The repetition of the word can build up in effect... but the effect is dependent on the energy that the people are using not on the actual word. The word has more of a psychological association affect then an actual energetic one.

I am afraid I disagree.

I feel that the word carries with it the energetic signature of the history of the word. My ex-girlfriend had a panic disorder that was brought on by certain words regarding our sexuality. Even when I used the word in an affectionate way, it triggered an attack because of the conditioning surrounding the word.

We were at a bar one night and one of those guys who think that our sexuality is just a phase approached us, and told her to ditch me, once she was with him, she wouldn't be a lesbian for long. His voice was filled with disgust. Yes, his words hurt. But they did not carry the hatred that is associated with other words. She calmly called the bouncer over and informed him we were being harassed.

I understand you feel that the intonation and intention behind a word exists as it is said. I cannot agree because I have seen and felt first hand that this isn't the case.

This is the Psychological affect I was mentioning. Its psychological conditioning... and the psychological conditioning means that people Do Not Perceive... might not even be Capable of perceiving the energetic meaning. Its why people have difficulties perceiving energy which goes against personal Bias and Beliefs. Its a messy subject... but its one of the reasons why a common teaching concerning being able to read energy has a person loose their ego. Bias' destroys accurate perception... it blots out information because our beliefs control our immediate surroundings.
Another example that exemplifies this... pay close attention to what a person who is extremely biased resonates when you start talking about what they are biased about. Religion is a great example. Say the word God to a christian. Read the energy that they resonate. What they hear is what they want to hear. What they are Conditioned to hear... mental conditioning is very difficult to deal with. It becomes Their definition of god. Then if you say something about being not christian and you say the word god... it becomes The Heathen god... its interesting to say the least.
Most people aren't willing to let go... I just try to say that their is something greater then that. You know... that that is just a part of perception etc. etc.

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

Aka. They are a blank slate. Due to habituation and contextualization people have inherent inner meanings which they adhere to when they hear certain words.

I feel this is true, but I also feel it isn't as individualistic as your words imply because we do not exist independently of our society.

This was just a summary. We choose to exist within our society and follow the laws and mandates of communal living and communication which we have chosen as the foundation of our existence.

AKA being a part of society is a matter of choose. At its root its still individualistic we chose the society we keep... or we try to escape it and keep running into people. Either way... we are forced in a way to chose.
You are still you right? You haven't given up your free will. We adhere to certain meanings because it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense... shouldn't we stop believing those beliefs? But we are soo habituated and its Soo ingrained at that point and we have deep seated issues that have been instilled in us because of all the inconsistencies that are inherent in existence we simplify everything with labels and definitions so we don't Have to question any more. We don't have to re-evaluate or redefine our beliefs.

We choose our definitions and then we refuse to redefine our beliefs. We agree on definitions due to peer pressure to make life easier. They are not perfect, they have flaws, they have deeper subcontexts which are highly myriad and confusing because we have been building them over how many years now?

Thus Children Are Way easier to talk about. Free of all that BS and As adults we can try to pick the best and the easiest and the definitions which we like the best to try to impart on them though we imply much more then we actually say ^_^

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Ishtar Shakti

Depending on context etc. words develop different meanings. I.E. the word Niger has a different meaning when a white person says it then when a black person says it. It has different meanings due to context etc. implied meanings etc. or what we imagine is implied in the meaning.

I cannot agree.
The example you give only reflects the person speaking the word, and it doesn't reflect the person hearing it and the harm it can cause them.

I was talking about the meaning of the word on Both parts. If I am someones friend and they call me their Niger. This has happened btw. I would not be harmed or offended because I understand the context of their words.

This doesn't affect the word I says energy. Because people aren't Receptive to energy... this doesn't Matter much. Of course the person hearing it won't perceive it the way its intended. Thats almost impossible unless you have two psychics who are extremely in tune. I was just mentioning the fact that words have multiple meanings and that the Word Niger can mean both friend and be derogatory.

Quote:

I feel part of your intent would be such, but not the whole of your intent, since it would still be placing your desire to use a word over the harm it is inflicting upon others.

Do you assume someone would be Hearing the word?

Quote:

I feel that we can provide deeper context personally, but that it doesn't negate the larger context created by our society.

I also feel that to argue for that is dehumanizing to others since it supports the intent of harming others in favor of taking small actions to be considerate of our right to feel safe.

Our Society is the Society we keep. The people we are around... the people they are around etc.
You imply harm when there is none. Haven't you ever engaged in playful derogatory banter?

I have certain friends that this is a fine act. On a daily basis one of my friends calls everyone a hooker. There is a game where people try to think of the foulest thing that they can say... and people are laughing.
One person calls someone something and then they just get fouler until no one can say anything and they can get really absurd.

Harm implies someone is harmed. for someone to be harmed there has to be some sort of psychological association with the word being meant to harm. If people aren't using it in that context then it has no harm. I've been called a b***h plenty of times and I shot right back with calling the person a whore. Words don't usually bother me especially if said in a non-negative context and by people who I don't really care for. If a stranger called me a whore I wouldn't care... *shrug* thats just me of course.

Everyones different... but just because a word Can have a meaning Doesn't mean it DOES and it doesn't mean it will have even a blip of an energetic reaction.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

... my posts a bit long I can summarize. If the guild manager wants to white all that out go right ahead.

I was talking about the energy of the word. Meaning when I speak the energy of that. Not the energy produced when other people hear it.

Instilled energy vs. perceived energy

Also that the energy wasn't inherent. AKA the word itself has no meaning but that which we Associate with the word. Your ex's associations induce panic.

Our learned meanings can be hard to overcome. They are deeply rooted over years in our psyche's. Reinforced.

We become Habituated. We may not even have accurate definitions (like thinking black people are lazy or bad) which are hard to relearn. We instill these in the words when we speak them or hear them but the word is still just sound. Internally we Can change the meanings we use when we speak.

Even when using different words in place of an old one. (African American Instead of Niger) our old definitions still energetically resonate.
Thankfully most people Can't Read Energy. Soo All of this is meaningless. It is just useful to know if you are curious as to what people think and can read energy.  

[maenad nuri]

I'm actually going to disagree and say that intent isn't primary. While it has it's place, if what is said does cause harm or distress (and not needfully to the person that it is being conveyed too), that is more important to me.

The reaction is primary. If we say the intent is primary, then anyone can hide behind "BUT I DIDN'T MEAN IT"  

[kage no neko]

AvalonAuggie

kage no neko

I've been curious myself about some people, but unless I actually know them, like.. as a friend or at least decent acquaintance, I think it's rude. It's about as rude, if not more so, than pointing at someone and talking loudly about them.

But if you don't mind me asking.. How would you rather someone word that, so that it doesn't insult you?

the exact phrase "If you don't mind me asking" is a great way to start, since that confirms that you're talking to another person who you respect as a human being. It seriously warms the cockles of my heart when I hear that. biggrin

Beyond that the safest choice is to ask your acquaintance if they're multiracial or multi-ethnic or identify as such. This language is inclusive of the fact that people of all sorts of backgrounds exist. Many Americans who identify as multiracial have African-American and Caucasian heritage (I'm one of them) but their self-labeling is shaped by vastly different cultural circumstances than someone who has, say, Asian and Latin@ heritage. Or Dutch and Jamaican heritage. And there can be an assumption that when someone is "mixed" that they're the classic black/white mix. (Much like someone who has limited knowledge of paganism assuming a Pagan they meet is Wiccan).

Basically what I'm trying to say, in a horribly rambly way, is that reactions to any question about race are going to vary from individual to individual, which is why it's both polite and smart to get to know someone a bit before you have these conversations. And inclusive language is good.

Before I ask a question, even if it's to my friends, I usually say either "if you don't mind me asking" or "may I ask a question". Silly habit I guess, but I'm always afraid I'll offend someone (since I tend to often with my bad wording).