Is God.....

[ioioouiouiouio]

Theopneustos

You have used apologetics, correct, Cometh? I can support this with Scripture, where Peter says, "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." The Greek word for "defense" (not found in this verse, but uses the word "reason") is apologia. Apologia brings forth apologetics. I've already given the definition of what apologetics is. I am positive that just about every Christian who has defended his or her faith has used apologetics, which again, is a branch of theology.

By using this, I would see that you do believe that theology is important. I am not asking you to get into a class on theology. I haven't. But let's say someone gets into a deep discussion, such as Eteponge pr Ananel, who are actual members here at Gaia. Or, you get into a discussion with Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses. I have seen several of these groups of people distort the church history in favor for their belief system.

Did you know, for example, that Jehovah's Witnesses use the same theology as that of Arius, the one who claimed that Christ was the highest being of all creation, but not equal to God? They believe that the Father is only God, they believe that the Son is a god (see the New World Translation John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"), and the Holy Spirit is merely an impersonal force. I would go further to call them Neo-Arianists.

What if you were to go up against someone else's beliefs, and they used the Bible for support, as well as the early church fathers? What would you do? Hope for the best that you have all the right answers? Even the one you're debating with can use the Bible. Theology is overall important for the Christian. You can learn much, especially interpretations on Scripture. Of course, your studying of the Bible would be considered hermeneutics. Just make sure that you're studying it correctly, as there is truly only one interpretation, though many others could be brought up.

It's just advice I am giving you, Cometh. You don't have to agree, though I have seen that you are choosing not to. I just believe it would be of great use.

I understand where you are coming from and I, to an extent, agree with you. learning theology is rather helpful in a scriptural discussion, however, that does not mean that those who have learned theology (speciffically) are superior in a discussion then one who has not.

To me, it sounded like you were being condescending and telling me to go 'learn some theology' before I came to debate with you. if this was not your intent, then I misinterpreted you and am sorry.  

[Theopneustos]

Cometh The Inquisitor

To me, it sounded like you were being condescending and telling me to go 'learn some theology' before I came to debate with you. if this was not your intent, then I misinterpreted you and am sorry.

It's no problem.  

[Gilwen]

Cometh The Inquisitor

The only study of theology 'needed' to discuss God and His attributes is the study of the Bible.

Exactly. What I'm saying is, Theo's arguments are better supported by the Bible than . . .whoever it was who was arguing with him. The Bible what Christian Theology should be based on. I think we're agreeing and just misunderstanding each other. smile  

[Curium]

Gilwen

Cometh The Inquisitor

The only study of theology 'needed' to discuss God and His attributes is the study of the Bible.

Exactly. What I'm saying is, Theo's arguments are better supported by the Bible than . . .whoever it was who was arguing with him. The Bible what Christian Theology should be based on. I think we're agreeing and just misunderstanding each other. smile

I suppose it was there was a little bit of misunderstanding involved...  

[Woodlock]

Noctis_Crucis

Omgoodness, why would you think such a thing! God made Heaven, and he is in heaven. I guess I just don't see how you could think that God is truly in Hell. God places people in Hell because they do not believe in Jesus Christ or Him, and if he created Jesus Christ obviously he knows him. My goodness, of course God isn't in Hell! What do you think, the Bible is lying?

Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Lamb=Jesus
Jesus=God

So yes, God is there. He oversees the torments of Hell.  

[Seority]

we dont really know whats in hell right now (or at least i dont)
not even satan is in hell, hes on the earth tempting ppl 2 sin  

[chickenlipsRfun2eat]

God is Omnipresent.
So yeah he is in Hell, he created it.

But Hes not suffering in there.

Its like this, I paint a picture. When the
picture gets destroyed, do I get destroyed?
No.

so yeah, there ya go (:

*edit*

windswept_fury

Well, here's what I've found, an exerpt by Eric Landstrom.


"Thomas Oden noted in his systematic theology that the infinite is that which has no end, no limit, and no finite boundary, thus that which is infinite cannot be measured or timed by any finite standard. Infinity, rightly conceived, can belong only to God alone. By definition that which is infinite cannot be applied to any finite creature, even though the creatures themselves may participate in the infinity of God. Thus notions of infinite time and infinite space tend to be self contradictory and confusing because space and time, being finite, cannot be extended infinitely. It is only when infinity is attributed to God alone that the concept has precise, plausible, and a consistent meaning.

Space and time are transcended by the infinite God, making terms like beyond and trascended inexact and usable only in a metaphorical sense. God is both infinitely near and infinitely far, yet speaking in this way we do not imply that God is finitely localized in one place, be it here on this earth, heaven, or hell (Oden, The Living God).

Omnipresence is God's method of being present to all ranges of both time and space. Although God is present in all time and space, God is not locally limited to any time or space. God is everywhere and in every now. No molecule or atomic particle is so small that God is not fully present to it, and no galaxy so vast that God does not circumscribe it. But if we were to remove creation, God would still know of it, for He knows all possibilities, whether they are actual or not.

But some disagree saying that God is not aware or present with those who are in hell and that he is also unaware of the transpirings within hell's boundaries. To this idea, we say no, for God is everywhere present and knows all things, even those who are removed from his blessings an dwell in the confines of hell. Thus because God is everywhere present, we argue, he is definitely aware of hell and its contents and for this very reason has broken off all fellowship with it's occupants, His blessing are departed, His wrath is ushered in. Yet, God in His infinite mercy, allows the occupants to continue to exist rather than to snuff them out because of their intrinsic value: for something is greater than nothing, having life, no matter the condition, is better than having no life. Thus God's presence in hell works both to sustain the occupants and through the anguish of personal sin, those before his holy presence are punished.

Thus, we affirm that lake of fire is before God, that God is present within it and present within it's occupants. Nevertheless, we deny the idea of process theology, or that of eminence, the idea that creation emanates from the being of God because it doesn't differentiate clearly enough that the creation is not God. Hence, hell is a state that is in the presence of God, but not in a state of a blessed presence.

The lexical definition of the word commonly translated presence from Rev. 14:10:

enopion, in the face of (literally or figuratively):-before, in the presence (sight) of, to."

 

[Rouwenne]

I'm pretty late to this thread. sweatdrop
Reading this discussion has been very interesting. I've always believed God was everywhere but I've never thought how that meant Hell to. From what I read it seems very logical, but for some reason I want to think He's not there.  

[chickenlipsRfun2eat]

Simple Blue Sunshine

I'm pretty late to this thread. sweatdrop
Reading this discussion has been very interesting. I've always believed God was everywhere but I've never thought how that meant Hell to. From what I read it seems very logical, but for some reason I want to think He's not there.

Yeah its a normal human thing.

You imagine that the big guy is
in a place of suffering, so you'd
want to imagine that he's not thurr.
smile

I hope you understood what I said
._.
 

[Pandamaru]

That's an interesting question and I guess it depends on what you mean "if He's there." Technically, God is everywhere, but He created Hell for Satan and his angels. Also, that's where people go if they don't want to be with God. God is holy and like some people said, he can't stand sin, so why would God want to visit Hell. If God was in Hell, then there's no point of going to Heaven either. We got to Heaven to see and be with God. But that's just my opinion on this all.  

[Bolt]

It's similar to the question of Augustine: if God is everywhere, how can he find a time to enter into my heart? What's the difference between being in my heart after being a Christian, and being in my heart before, in your omnipresence?

It's a different kind of "being in".

In the same way, since God is truly everywhere, even "to the depths of sheol", he is in Hell the same as he is in Heaven.

Yet it isn't the same kind of presence.

He's removed himself from those in Hell, as punishment for sin. And in Heaven, the regenerate are fully in his presence. What does this mean, then? God must reveal himself to people in different ways. He has hidden his face from those in Hell, yet those in Heaven can fully gaze on his face.  

[Gods Jester]

Noctis_Crucis

Omgoodness, why would you think such a thing! God made Heaven, and he is in heaven. I guess I just don't see how you could think that God is truly in Hell. God places people in Hell because they do not believe in Jesus Christ or Him, and if he created Jesus Christ obviously he knows him. My goodness, of course God isn't in Hell! What do you think, the Bible is lying?

Oh, It's easy. I don't see how a real Christian would read watch or play Harry Potter, let alone join a Potter guild.  

[Gods Jester]

Sorry, that was a little too viscious, and I apologize.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

kajun_chicken

Sorry, that was a little too viscious, and I apologize.

yeah, not to mention completely off-topic.

/shrug  

[rockmanx]

Theopneustos

Well, let's see what the Bible has to say.

Psalm 139:8 "If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths*, you are there."

2 Thessalonians 1:9 "They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power."

Contradiction? I'll let you decide.

*KJV, if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.

Not really.

"Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

The world hell is Sheol which means the same as the greek word Hades. It means grave/hell and if you read in Revelation 20:14 that hell is distroyed.

"Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

The world "hell" in that verse is hades. Another translation for both verse can be

Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in grave, behold, thou art there.

Revelation 20:14 And death and grave were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

For better understanding of things, it is usally best to go back to the original.