I Have A Question...

[trinity343]

mazuac

Here's what I say...

Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner biggrin

well..while that's all well and good you run into the problem of the fact that those who are non-believers...and believers alike who's current lifestyle is centered around that sin...for example homosexuality...then you risk the chance of offending the person in that sin b/c lifestyle is what they consider themselves. so if you say hate the sin..like hating the sin sin of homosexuality then you are also saying you hate the sinner b/c that person's self-identity is based completely around that sin...so that's something that you have to be very careful about...very very careful about. it's not our job to hate the sin anyway...except that which is in our own life, although that doesn't mean that we don't lovingly try and direct the person back to the right path. it is only God's rightful position to hate the sin b/c only he is holy and perfect...we as long as we are in this form are still trapped within our own sin  

[lordstar]

Quote:

meant to me more a generic 'you'...sorry i thought about it afterwards...like way afterwards when i wasn't anywhere near a computer...about how it was worded...but it's just an example of a thought that could occur...not necessarily one that has....or even is directly aimed at you personally

No worries
It fits rather nicely with all my sheep comments

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yeah but just b/c you consider it to be just a book and not proven to be true...by human means mind you...doesn't mean it isn't any less true. it just comes down to you choice to accept Christ as God or not, that's the beauty of the free will that God gave us. however...if we choose wrong there are always consequences to our decision/chooses/actions/and so on.

You have a point here
I will concede that such things might be true
however
I don't think either side can be proven entirely or disproved for that matter

there really is no telling what is right and what is wrong
I would say we may be able to make a good guess at it

what would be ironic is if, lets say its judgment day, and we both arrive at the gates only to find out we were both wrong. I would laugh...uncontrollably for what may seem an eternity. Wouldn't you, if lets say the truth was the exact opposite of what you held true. I could see Lucifer rolling with laughter wheezing out the word "suckers" with every new entry.

there really is no telling what is right and what isn't
there could be more than one right answer

imagine for a moment two appoints after a holy war both find themselves entering the gates moments after death
what do you think their first conversation would be?
I’m going to guess something to the effect of how pointless the holy war was.

on the flip side
lets say you are right and I am wrong
lets say I find out at the gates
without a doubt I wouldn't be too pleased about being wrong
but I don't think God would fault me for it
just doesn't seem like a Godly thing to do

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i agree...challenge the status quo...go against the flow. that's what the Bible is all about, going against the norm of society. pretty much everything in the Bible goes against the normal human instinct which is what makes it so unique to a lot of other beliefs and such. most everything else is almost completely self-centered...while true Christianity is God-centered...which means as well people-centered (since we are to become more like Jesus and since he was obviously people-centered...we should be as well). but at the same time we are taught to respect authority b/c they are their b/c God appointed them to be in that position...even those who we consider to be 'evil' 'bad' authorities...we just have to deal with what's there until God shows a way to make a change.

also i think this depends on what your definition of what a viewpoint is.

ya
I don't do so well with authorities
I remember my days as a non-thinking sheep
figures my job now is to be a pain in the a** lolz

I guess I’ve never had a good experience in any Christian place of worship
always seems to me someone wanted me to conform to what they thought to be true and discourage taking a good look for myself

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well in that case i shall pray for you. it's not a bad thing to keep your eyes open...i understand there are many ways in which Christianity can seem artificial...b/c of the way in which ppl talk about it...and their lack of faith or those not living it they way it's meant to be lived out (meaning they focus on their selves). God had told us (through Paul's teachings) that we are to test things to make sure they are of God...and sometimes...ok a lot of the times (especially in the States and other western countries) fake Christians are normality’s that it seems a lot of people tend to ignore.

saying that you'll pray for me, although im sure you have nothing but the best intentions, is like saying I’m broken
and being that’s not the case there really is no reason
and personally I would rather you direct your energy to another cause
lest go with...helping the disadvantaged...bit wide but hay its a start

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well I’ll take that as at least somewhat of a compliment. Thanks ^-^

i agree though yes...a lot of biblical points can only be believed/agree upon by those who believe the Bible in it's entirety. and the only way to be able to do that is by the Holy Spirit, b/c our human nature naturally resist and rejects the truths of the Bible, the Holy Spirit just allows us to see past our human nature

see
now I don't feel so bad about going on my rather long tangent

Quote:

ooo physics smile

i have a question for you though. I’m curious as to your age and to what area of this small world do you reside in

lim x
x --> 100%

I seem to use this bit a lot
Its good fun at least although It gets me into all sorts of trouble

I could tell you my age and where I live but I think it would be much more fun to give you a hint

try looking at some of my other posts to get an idea
you may want to start within the topic I created not too long ago
on this very forum no less  

[trinity343]

well that was easy enough..i'm going to say, from my searching the forum. that your in California in college...now as you to exact age...it'd have to be more likely that you are between 18 and 23...that's about as for down as i can narrow it so  

[mazuac]

trinity343

mazuac

Here's what I say...

Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner biggrin

well..while that's all well and good you run into the problem of the fact that those who are non-believers...and believers alike who's current lifestyle is centered around that sin...for example homosexuality...then you risk the chance of offending the person in that sin b/c lifestyle is what they consider themselves. so if you say hate the sin..like hating the sin sin of homosexuality then you are also saying you hate the sinner b/c that person's self-identity is based completely around that sin...so that's something that you have to be very careful about...very very careful about. it's not our job to hate the sin anyway...except that which is in our own life, although that doesn't mean that we don't lovingly try and direct the person back to the right path. it is only God's rightful position to hate the sin b/c only he is holy and perfect...we as long as we are in this form are still trapped within our own sin

True enough, but by hate the sin I didn't mean go up to the person saying "I love you, but I hate you because of you Gayness." What I meant was to kinda... like, I dunno. But I didn't intend for it to be like that. Sorry for the mix-up sweatdrop  

[trinity343]

mazuac

trinity343

mazuac

Here's what I say...

Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner biggrin

well..while that's all well and good you run into the problem of the fact that those who are non-believers...and believers alike who's current lifestyle is centered around that sin...for example homosexuality...then you risk the chance of offending the person in that sin b/c lifestyle is what they consider themselves. so if you say hate the sin..like hating the sin sin of homosexuality then you are also saying you hate the sinner b/c that person's self-identity is based completely around that sin...so that's something that you have to be very careful about...very very careful about. it's not our job to hate the sin anyway...except that which is in our own life, although that doesn't mean that we don't lovingly try and direct the person back to the right path. it is only God's rightful position to hate the sin b/c only he is holy and perfect...we as long as we are in this form are still trapped within our own sin

True enough, but by hate the sin I didn't mean go up to the person saying "I love you, but I hate you because of you Gayness." What I meant was to kinda... like, I dunno. But I didn't intend for it to be like that. Sorry for the mix-up sweatdrop

no, i understand where your coming from and what you intend behind the statement. i'm more pointing out the need to be careful about how you go about it. it can easily backfire  

[lordstar]

trinity343

well that was easy enough..i'm going to say, from my searching the forum. that your in California in college...now as you to exact age...it'd have to be more likely that you are between 18 and 23...that's about as for down as i can narrow it so

http://www.napavalley.edu  

[planet ice]

imagoodhugger

Okay I've read the bible and I love Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior but um...I was wondering if it was okay, to like guys if i am a guy. I've been wondering, and I've been bi since 8th grade and now in 9th and I just wanted to know if it was accepted by God and Jesus.

God loves you, but he doesnt always loove your choices  

[Sarcastic_Angel]

The bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin. I would find you verses but I'm too lazy too right now, and there are others posted before this one. But I do believe that God loves you and accepts you, though he gets disappointed because of sin, whatever sin it is.

So I agree with mazuac. love the person for who they are, and let them make their own choices.  

[PhaseBurn]

stv_drummer23

imagoodhugger

Okay I've read the bible and I love Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior but um...I was wondering if it was okay, to like guys if i am a guy. I've been wondering, and I've been bi since 8th grade and now in 9th and I just wanted to know if it was accepted by God and Jesus.

God loves you, but he doesnt always loove your choices

Not everybody believes it's a choice, though. Can you decide who you're going to fall in love with? Can you walk up to a girl and just decide to love her? I certainly can't. I doubt many people can, if any at all - so when somebody's heart falls in love with another person, same sex or otherwise, can they really *do* anything about it? It isn't like they consciously chose to fall in love with that person. Some reactions you just can't control: if you put your hand on a hot stove, you're going to instinctively remove it once it burns; if you lose your balance, you're going to instinctively roll into a position that will hurt less when you fall, cradling parts of your body that are more vulnerable. Similarly, if you see somebody your subconscious admires, feels compatible with, whatever the right combination of things is (I can't explain love), you're going to instinctively develop feelings for that person.

Is being gay or bi a choice? I don't think so. Acting on those feelings is a different story. Nowhere have I heard that it's a sin to feel that way. No bible verse or parable has stated clearly that FEELING that way is wrong. Only actions based on those feelings. And even those are open to interpretation.

imagoodhugger: be who you are. If you want to explore that side of yourself, do so. If you don't, then don't. It may be a phase you'll grow out of (a lot of teenagers go through this at your age, to be honest - my first crush was somebody of the opposite sex, but as I got older, I developed crushes on several guys, mixed in with girls), or you may not grow out of it - some people do, some don't. Either way, don't be ashamed or afraid of something you can't control like this. I'm a firm believer that if you are bi or gay, it isn't a choice you made, any more than being mentally handicapped is. All you can choose is if you wish to act on it or not. If you do, by all means - I don't believe there's a clear answer to it being a sin or not, and if you don't, that's your choice too. Ultimately, it's something you and you alone have to decide. One can only present arguments for or against it, nobody can tell you (with any legitimacy) it's 100% wrong or 100% alright.  

[IcarusDream]

trinity343

etchedspirit

the bible says it's wrong to be gay....God does accept you that way, but he loves you to much to leave you that way. pray a lot and ask God for guidence...

i agree...the bible is very clear on that subject. homosexuality (of any kind, including being bi) is called unnatural and a perversion of God's creation. he created us man and women, to marry and share in a deep relationship that reflects our relationship with God.

Both of you...prove it...

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here it says quite specifically that homosexual offenders (or..those who practice homosexuality) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Are you kidding? Homosexual offenders clearly refers to people who offend homosexuals.

One wonders why Paul would use the word arsenokoites to refer to practicing homosexuals when there are words for such persons that are much more clear in their reference, used time and time again in Greek works...whereas arsenokoites is used only thrice (as far as I can recall) in any known work.  

[IcarusDream]

Y i J u

Leviticus 20:13

"The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act and are guilty of a capital offense."

Deny that.


God loves you way to much for homosexuality to be acceptable.

I do deny that. The decision of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 releases we Gentiles from the Mosaic Law.  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

IcarusDream

Y i J u

Leviticus 20:13

"The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act and are guilty of a capital offense."

Deny that.


God loves you way to much for homosexuality to be acceptable.

I do deny that. The decision of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 releases we Gentiles from the Mosaic Law.

Actually, since Acts 15 does not release us from sexual immorality, you're going to have to prove that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 do not refer to gay sex in its entirety. I would recommend reading the following links;

http://epistle.us/hbarticles/leviticus4.html
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/zakhar1.html (Supplement to Leviticus4.html)
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/leviticus5.html
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/leviticus6.html

You could also quote Colossians 2:14-17, which carries the same message but with pesky less in-print restrictions, if you're lazy. ^-^

As for arsenokoites, it appears twice in the Bible (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:10), and is literally (by word parts) Man-lyer. However, this does not indicate its meaning any more than "chairman" means "man on chair". See http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html for more information.

Have fun researching!  

[IcarusDream]

Mein Kulturkampf

Actually, since Acts 15 does not release us from sexual immorality, you're going to have to prove that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 do not refer to gay sex in its entirety. I would recommend reading the following links;

Define πορνειας. From what I've seen, this word appears all the time in the NT, but is never defined...

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Have fun researching!

I've done my share ;]

I am also interested in DAing sometimes...Your sources often point to how we cannot think on the meaning of word simply from its parts, and use examples like "chairman" or "rainbow," which certainly would demonstrate the point from an English perspective, but what proof do you have that says this cannot be done from a Koine Greek perspective? Do you have compound words in Greek whose meanings cannot be distinguished from their respective parts? I have yet to see any examples.