transcendentalism

[ioioouiouiouio]

divineseraph

he did at first believe that he was speaking to a demon. he was very shaken. and i honestly don't believe that jesus IS God, i think he is highly connected, but not the same guy. sort of like God's vice president, of sorts.

And what, pray tell, led you to that conclusion?  

[divineseraph]

a few subtle hints. like how Jesus prays. if Jesus is God, who is he praying to? himself?

Does he ever actually say the words "I am God"? i have never seen the words put that way. i see him say "i am the way to salvation" and things of the like, but perhaps that means the message he conveys, not the person of Jesus himself  

[fantrl]

divineseraph

a few subtle hints. like how Jesus prays. if Jesus is God, who is he praying to? himself?

This is why you need to understand Trinity.

There is one God.

In this one God, there are three persons.

There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.

The Father is not the Son, or the Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

But they are all one.  

[divineseraph]

yeah, and that sounds about as feasible as much of scientology. i prefer the idea that all three religions are connected by the One God. they have all the similarities, so why is it not possible? even muslims agree that Jesus was a very holy man. just not to the level of God Himself.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

divineseraph

a few subtle hints. like how Jesus prays. if Jesus is God, who is he praying to? himself?

Does he ever actually say the words "I am God"? i have never seen the words put that way. i see him say "i am the way to salvation" and things of the like, but perhaps that means the message he conveys, not the person of Jesus himself

Jesus said He was the Messiah, and the Messiah has to be fully God and fully human. Secondly, Jesus is an aspect of God. That is to say that, though He is fully God, there are two other 'parts' of God that are their own 'seperate' person (so to speak). The Father knows things that the Son doesn't, the Son does what the Father won't, the Spirit appears where the Son can't.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

divineseraph

yeah, and that sounds about as feasible as much of scientology. i prefer the idea that all three religions are connected by the One God. they have all the similarities, so why is it not possible? even muslims agree that Jesus was a very holy man. just not to the level of God Himself.

Because all three religions contradict the other two. Judeism says that the Messiah has not come, and that God's people are to follow the Old Laws (for example, the laws of Kosher, or of no travel on the Sabbath). Christianity teaches that Jesus was the Messiah and that the Old Laws no longer apply. While Islam teaches that the first two are the religions of infidels who must be put to the sword.

The three are not compatible, and nmixing of them creates a b*****d ideology.  

[divineseraph]

i don't even see them that way. i see it more as a blossoming flower- judaism are the roots. they started the plant. christianity is the stalk, Jesus came to remind of us God and His will. the flower on top is Islam, as it is the most recent major act of God. and it continues growing to one final point. they all mesh together in the name of YHWH, none perfect, none completely off. three seperate streams leading to the same ocean that is the One God.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

So, if you only believe part of each religion anyways, ho do you decide which part is right? I mean, Jesus lied about being the Messiah, so why trust that we shouldn't murder?  

[divineseraph]

that's not what i'm saying. they all worship YHWH, in any and every direction. they choose different ways to do it, but so what? so long as they aren't, ya know, brash and evil. all three have the same basic ideas of not killing, not stealing and respect. i'm pretty sure that if they follow those guidelines, no matter what they call God, they've got a good shot of being on God's good side. basically, i don't see the religion as important as the message, how the people live their daily lives. if they respect jesus as messiah but are still darshwads, why the hell should they have a better chance than a completely devote muslim who REALLY CARES and tries to please god the way he was TAUGHT to? it cannot be possible for God to pick soley on which of the three of the russian roulette chambers someone got.  

[fantrl]

Cometh The Inquisitor

So, if you only believe part of each religion anyways, ho do you decide which part is right? I mean, Jesus lied about being the Messiah, so why trust that we shouldn't murder?

THANK YOU.

This is why "Cafeteria Christianity" is a bunch of crap.  

[divineseraph]

i'm not really christian, nor muslim, nor jew. i just believe in YHWH and try to generally avoid things which are obviously bad. i'm pretty sure that's all you need, and if God truly wants to play favorites like that, then i don't really want a part of that.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

divineseraph

i'm not really christian, nor muslim, nor jew. i just believe in YHWH and try to generally avoid things which are obviously bad. i'm pretty sure that's all you need, and if God truly wants to play favorites like that, then i don't really want a part of that.

You know, I was originally going to end the discussion here, as I saw little point to debate something you yourself put together as a morality, but then I decided not to. Blame boredom.

Ok then, I'l bite. And just how do you define what is 'obviously' bad? I mean, sure, murder I can agree is pretty obviously bad. But what about lying or adultry? I know of a few ideological paths that would tell you that neither is bad. How do you know what is 'obviously' bad and how do you even know if it is bad, considering that you're the only measuring stick for morality?  

[Seority]

divineseraph

i'm not really christian, nor muslim, nor jew. i just believe in YHWH and try to generally avoid things which are obviously bad. i'm pretty sure that's all you need, and if God truly wants to play favorites like that, then i don't really want a part of that.

Same God, different rules.
I just think Christianity makes WAY more sence then the other ones.
Many people believe that there is some kind of god, but don't really follow the god within rules, standardes and such. They are like, "Hey! There is a god! But he's just a spiritual being. No biggie." At least, that is all I get from them.

Kitty teh bread.

 

[Jocken]

Cometh The Inquisitor

divineseraph

yeah, and that sounds about as feasible as much of scientology. i prefer the idea that all three religions are connected by the One God. they have all the similarities, so why is it not possible? even muslims agree that Jesus was a very holy man. just not to the level of God Himself.

Because all three religions contradict the other two. Judeism says that the Messiah has not come, and that God's people are to follow the Old Laws (for example, the laws of Kosher, or of no travel on the Sabbath). Christianity teaches that Jesus was the Messiah and that the Old Laws no longer apply. While Islam teaches that the first two are the religions of infidels who must be put to the sword.

The three are not compatible, and nmixing of them creates a b*****d ideology.

Come on Seraph, now you're just hurting my feelings. Scientology? No, the Trinity is a very complex, but feasable concept. Scientology was created with a bunch of crap religious doctarine someone threw togeather and designed to draw as much money out of its "believers" as possible (5 figures at a time sometimes). While the trinity is difficult to understand, it is not any reason to doubt God. It is perfectly explainable.
Also, while they all do follow the same God, their doctarine is still far different, as Mr. Inquisitor pointed out. And yes, they are unmixable. They do, however, share many beliefs on morality and creation.
As far as "obviously" bad goes, it is often obvious to the doer. When it is not, one must seek out God's guidance and talk with people. By the way, Seraph, do you belive in Jesus as the Savior?  

[divineseraph]

there are certain similarities- murder, theft, rape, being cruel to anyone else. all of those are stressed in every religious text.

other than that, in the words of napoleon dynamite- just listen to your heart. that's what i do.

also, answer this- how is it right, how is it just, that a muslim can be just as devote, in fact much more so (praying 5 times a day, fasting for a month or so, following every commandment) than a christian, but still not be saved? just for calling God a different name?