Religion and scholarship

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

TeaDidikai

Sophist

I wonder, with a recon religion, how much change should one allow for if the religion was not revealed but compound? Hmm...

It's an interesting question. Perhaps by looking at some of the schisms between Orthodox and Liberal Judaism we might get a feel for what would have happened if the traditions had continued.

I personally find tracking Hinduism rather more useful in seeing how a polytheistic religion will change and fragment over time due to how it has more political clout, so discrimination against Hindus is less in play than with Jews.

Seeing how Japan integrated Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity is also a really interesting example of how religion can change in response to a society that is tighter knit and smaller geographically.

Not that the divisions between Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal Judaism can't give us information in meta-analysis, but I think you need to take into account the effects of over a thousand years of persecution there, too, which could drive a lot of the practices underground and into symbolism for the sake of safety.

You have a good point.
I suppose I relate to it well for obvious reasons. sweatdrop  

[Ainwyn]

Sophist

Ainwyn

I meant to ask my Ancient Religions professor about the menstruation thing today, as we've been talking about women who did various work in temples (we just read Women and Religion in Ancient Egypt by Barbara Lesko) and, vaguely, the purifying rituals needed before priests could enter certain rooms. But I was insanely exhausted and totally forgot stressed I'll bring it up on Friday if I remember.

Thanks. I also have my Egypt class tomorrow and I'll ask as well. I'm disappointed it doesn't say anything about it in the book you mentioned, it's on my shopping list. Still going to get it anyway.

What we read was only about 20 pages long, so I assume it wasn't the entire thing. So it might be in there in other parts smile I enjoyed it, a much easier read than Horung, as she didn't assume the reader had tons of previous knowledge and actually explained different views instead of just telling us to read other books. If it is a full book, I'll probably get it for my library too.  

[Bastemhet]

Ainwyn

I meant to ask my Ancient Religions professor about the menstruation thing today, as we've been talking about women who did various work in temples (we just read Women and Religion in Ancient Egypt by Barbara Lesko) and, vaguely, the purifying rituals needed before priests could enter certain rooms. But I was insanely exhausted and totally forgot stressed I'll bring it up on Friday if I remember.

Mind if I ask what kind of work? I asked my teacher and he says women were never priests. It might be a good reason why I haven't encountered any talk of blood taboo during ritual, since priests were the only ones who could tend to the maintenance of the statue.

Deo: Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any texts to recommend?  

[Maze]

Deoridhe

TeaDidikai

Sophist

I wonder, with a recon religion, how much change should one allow for if the religion was not revealed but compound? Hmm...

It's an interesting question. Perhaps by looking at some of the schisms between Orthodox and Liberal Judaism we might get a feel for what would have happened if the traditions had continued.

I personally find tracking Hinduism rather more useful in seeing how a polytheistic religion will change and fragment over time due to how it has more political clout, so discrimination against Hindus is less in play than with Jews.

Seeing how Japan integrated Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity is also a really interesting example of how religion can change in response to a society that is tighter knit and smaller geographically.

Not that the divisions between Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal Judaism can't give us information in meta-analysis, but I think you need to take into account the effects of over a thousand years of persecution there, too, which could drive a lot of the practices underground and into symbolism for the sake of safety.

That reminds me of Firefly/Serenity.

"Dear Buddha, I want a pony." (Not quite the quote, but that was the gist of it, if I remember right, equating Buddha (the statue Mal Reynolds was kneeling in front of and possibly ridiculing, just a little) to Santa.)  

[Bastemhet]

Sophist

Ainwyn

I meant to ask my Ancient Religions professor about the menstruation thing today, as we've been talking about women who did various work in temples (we just read Women and Religion in Ancient Egypt by Barbara Lesko) and, vaguely, the purifying rituals needed before priests could enter certain rooms. But I was insanely exhausted and totally forgot stressed I'll bring it up on Friday if I remember.

Mind if I ask what kind of work? I asked my teacher and he says women were never priests. It might be a good reason why I haven't encountered any talk of blood taboo during ritual, since priests were the only ones who could tend to the maintenance of the statue.

Deo: Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any texts to recommend?

Scratch that, did quick internet search and I found something on female priests with references. Guess I'll have to edumacate the prof on this one.  

[TeaDidikai]

Maze

That reminds me of Firefly/Serenity.

"Dear Buddha, I want a pony." (Not quite the quote, but that was the gist of it, if I remember right, equating Buddha (the statue Mal Reynolds was kneeling in front of and possibly ridiculing, just a little) to Santa.)

The theological interplay and commentary in that series was amazing. heart


The references in Serenity to Buddhism were masterful and I miss that thread in M&R where we were discussing it.  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

I personally find tracking Hinduism rather more useful in seeing how a polytheistic religion will change and fragment over time due to how it has more political clout, so discrimination against Hindus is less in play than with Jews.

Seeing how Japan integrated Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity is also a really interesting example of how religion can change in response to a society that is tighter knit and smaller geographically.

Not that the divisions between Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal Judaism can't give us information in meta-analysis, but I think you need to take into account the effects of over a thousand years of persecution there, too, which could drive a lot of the practices underground and into symbolism for the sake of safety.

You have a good point.
I suppose I relate to it well for obvious reasons. sweatdrop

Well, yes. heart In some ways, it is a blessing to be reconstructing; one can make positive and generative assumptions about development without having to take into account historical prejudice.

Sophist

Deo: Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any texts to recommend?

For once, I actually recommend secondary sources, not primary, because you're not looking for the texts itself but rather how people responded to them over time. You may even want to start at the tertiary level, which is where I am on 95% of my Hinduism knowledge. Focus on an area - I found the changing opinions around castes and the growth of the untouchables particularly horrifically interesting - and find several different articles on it over time. See how it changes. You can kind of see how people interplay with religion and then make some inferences.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Well, yes. heart In some ways, it is a blessing to be reconstructing; one can make positive and generative assumptions about development without having to take into account historical prejudice.

I guess I'm lucking in that most of my reconstruction is done 90% for me. I don't have to go through ancient source texts, I just have to listen to my Grandmother say "Back in the day we did X because of Y, now we do X because we've always done X..."  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

I guess I'm lucking in that most of my reconstruction is done 90% for me. I don't have to go through ancient source texts, I just have to listen to my Grandmother say "Back in the day we did X because of Y, now we do X because we've always done X..."

See, my problem, is that my family had that when they were little but never cared very much. Now, what's left in my family is "We do X because we've always done X" and I'm left to find out the "Y" on my own. *grumbles*  

[River_Moonwolf]

One of the problems I used to run into, and still do on occasion, is "We do X because so and so says we do X." If you try to ask intelligent questions, ie why, you get treated at best like you're a pathetic moron and at worst, a heretic who has a severe need of burning. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about primary sources here. I' talking about what are essentially poor-man's commentaries and basic 'how-to' books. (Silver Ravenwing or whatever her name is springs to mind, I never get it right....)

The other problem is what I call the "how do you know?" syndrome. Someone asks how I perform a certain ritual or observe a certain festival and WHAM! I'm wrong because I'm apparently doing X 'wrong'. If I'm following an error (example : Friday is Thor's holy day), fine, correct me. But for a personal working in an aspect of a personal tradition, (example : clothed as opposed to skyclad (yes that was a debate once)), don't treat me as an idiot.

Just my two cents, shutting up now  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

TeaDidikai

I guess I'm lucking in that most of my reconstruction is done 90% for me. I don't have to go through ancient source texts, I just have to listen to my Grandmother say "Back in the day we did X because of Y, now we do X because we've always done X..."

See, my problem, is that my family had that when they were little but never cared very much. Now, what's left in my family is "We do X because we've always done X" and I'm left to find out the "Y" on my own. *grumbles*

See, Grandma never really cared, but my aunts and uncles did.

There's this very strange cultural gap that was a result of my Grandma being raised in post WWII Isolationist USA.  

[Collowrath]

TeaDidikai

Collowrath

TeaDidikai

I guess I'm lucking in that most of my reconstruction is done 90% for me. I don't have to go through ancient source texts, I just have to listen to my Grandmother say "Back in the day we did X because of Y, now we do X because we've always done X..."

See, my problem, is that my family had that when they were little but never cared very much. Now, what's left in my family is "We do X because we've always done X" and I'm left to find out the "Y" on my own. *grumbles*

See, Grandma never really cared, but my aunts and uncles did.

There's this very strange cultural gap that was a result of my Grandma being raised in post WWII Isolationist USA.

The issue in my family is that among my mother's siblings especially, there was the attitude that we're Americans now, we need to act like it. I have an aunt now who is in the same boat and journey that I'm in. She's really regretting the self-loathing that she developed over her Slovak-ness, and she's finding it just as difficult as I am recovering the "why."  

[TeaDidikai]

Collowrath

The issue in my family is that among my mother's siblings especially, there was the attitude that we're Americans now, we need to act like it. I have an aunt now who is in the same boat and journey that I'm in. She's really regretting the self-loathing that she developed over her Slovak-ness, and she's finding it just as difficult as I am recovering the "why."

Most of my leg work was done for me by my father's generation while Baba was still alive. I count myself lucky.