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 Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:26 pm
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:57 am
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thestarthatshines stopthebanningplease trinity343 stopthebanningplease Again, please read the links I gave you. ^-^ I'm a gay Christian, and they've helped me immensely. yeah...i looked at them...the one with the banners on the page...those are twisted scripture...they say jesus affirmed a gay couple and that the church accepted a gay man....those are way twisted to try and fit a meaning that they want them to mean... the centurion wished for his servant to be healed....not his partner. a servant is completely different.. Did you read the reasoning behind them? Please show me exactly where that reasoning went wrong. I believe that the reasoning is considered irrelevant if the verses are twisted. After all, the point of the reasoning is to biblically prove that being homosexual is ok - but if the verses are twisted, what's the point of the reasoning?
If the reasoning is sound, the verses are not twisted. Please prove that the verses are twisted, acknowledging and refuting all evidence given.
That's what I did; highly recommended. ^-^ |
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:15 pm
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Y i J u thestarthatshines The bible disapproves of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean he hates you. He loves you as much as he loves a goody-two shoes Christian. Hate the act, love the person. Just pray about it. =3 I'm not condeming you or anything but what if instead of hating ANYTHING (( even the act )) what if we just loved them like Christ loves us? It was never our job to hate the sin/act. It is only our job to let the love of God shine through us. I think that would help more people understand the love of God more than anything else. Our frowns on their acts make alot of people dislike 'those goody-two shoes Christians'. Remember how you were without Christ? I don't know about you but I was lost, confused, hurting, and I always felt like I was stuggling to get somewhere and never quite making it. So I was led to believe that other things would give me fufillment when they actually wouldn't fill that big empty void inside me... That just so happens to be God-shaped.
ah, I'm sorry - I didn't mean it the way it sounded, and you're completely right. I have a bad habit of using the wrong words when trying to say something. u_u |
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:21 pm
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Bible verses can be twisted into ways we want them to be. How do you think Cult leaders catch there members attention? An example, David Keresh (the branched devidends), he told his members about how they will get into a conferation with the FBI and American Government, and to sound stupid, de de de! They had illegaly weapons, Ak-47s, AR-15s, so on so forth. That wasn't off topic, I was saying these people may pull out bible verses to tell you, YA! It's wrong! Your going to hell!
But, as for being Bi, your loyal to your Lord God, you go to church, you pray, so on so forth. Your a Christian and your Bi because that's what attracts to yourself, if that's how God wants you, that's how you shalt be.
and for all these other people.
"Judge ye not, for ye shalt be judge"
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:22 pm
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For those who gather their own masters to listen what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
For those who twist the Scriptures onto their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
For those who follow the teachings of men who say that homosexuality and other sins are not truly sins, and who say that God will not punish those who engage this practice, this is what the Word of the three times holy God says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says: You will have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.'" (Jeremiah 23:16-17)
If you are speaking only about attraction, you probably have no control over them. However, you can reject acting based upon those attractions. I, for example, face attraction both to girls and to guys, but with the help of God I decide not to give into temptation and hold any kind of homosexual relationship, knowing that it is wrong before God's eyes.
The homosexual/bisexual attraction per se is not sinful, whereas the consumation of actions based on said attraction is.
Furthermore, God made sex to be done within marriage. God made marriage to be between man and woman. Sex outside marriage is wrong before God's eyes. Homosexual relations, as well, fall under this category of fornication and rejection of God's estabilished patterns.
"He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:9).
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:37 pm
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dirtdevilgrunt13 Bible verses can be twisted into ways we want them to be. How do you think Cult leaders catch there members attention? An example, David Keresh (the branched devidends), he told his members about how they will get into a conferation with the FBI and American Government, and to sound stupid, de de de! They had illegaly weapons, Ak-47s, AR-15s, so on so forth. That wasn't off topic, I was saying these people may pull out bible verses to tell you, YA! It's wrong! Your going to hell! But, as for being Bi, your loyal to your Lord God, you go to church, you pray, so on so forth. Your a Christian and your Bi because that's what attracts to yourself, if that's how God wants you, that's how you shalt be. and for all these other people. "Judge ye not, for ye shalt be judge"
why would God want us to live in sin?...Jesus specifically tells ppl to go and sin no more, that applies to us as well...
Romans1:24-27 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
God calls us to live a strict life-style, not one where we go and indulge in our sinful desires, and when we refuse to live the way God lives, he hands us over to our sinful nature, in the NLT wording, he abandons us to do whatever shameful thing our heart desires, he leaves us to live with our own sin, forgiven...and don't try and blame this on a one time occurrence b/c of surrounding circumstances about pagan practices...this is an all the time thing that we as a church today have allowed to happen. we've allowed sin ti enter in to the body unchallenged and that is why the american church is so corrupt as a whole.
also in response to "...i was saying these ppl may pull out bible verse to tell you, Ya! it's wrong! your going to hell!"
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
that is what scripture is for, while no...that approach might not be the right way to go at it, we are still told what is right and what is wrong through God's word. the meaning behind it does not change from culture to culture or from one point in time to another. it is never changing and always present. one's sin bring a person to hell..it separates the person from God for all eternity
and about the judging thing, we are not to judge a person eternity status...but as Christian we are allowed to correct fellow Christians who are not on the right path. it is our responsibility to help the other grow towards righteousness..and if we don't carry out that responsibility then we are no better then the person who is going down the wrong path |
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:40 pm
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-Nexius I- For those who gather their own masters to listen what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
For those who twist the Scriptures onto their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
For those who follow the teachings of men who say that homosexuality and other sins are not truly sins, and who say that God will not punish those who engage this practice, this is what the Word of the three times holy God says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says: You will have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.'" (Jeremiah 23:16-17)
If you are speaking only about attraction, you probably have no control over them. However, you can reject acting based upon those attractions. I, for example, face attraction both to girls and to guys, but with the help of God I decide not to give into temptation and hold any kind of homosexual relationship, knowing that it is wrong before God's eyes.
The homosexual/bisexual attraction per se is not sinful, whereas the consumation of actions based on said attraction is.
Furthermore, God made sex to be done within marriage. God made marriage to be between man and woman. Sex outside marriage is wrong before God's eyes. Homosexual relations, as well, fall under this category of fornication and rejection of God's estabilished patterns.
"He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:9).
hmm...agreed. i think part of the reason we could have attractions to both sexes is b/c God's creation is a wonderful, beautiful thing and that is a natural reaction for us...but i think we need to keep in mind why we might be reacting that way and not act inappropriately b/c of our 'feelings/attractions' :edit: but also i think another part of it is our sinful nature as well |
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:11 pm
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-Nexius I- For those who gather their own masters to listen what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
For those who twist the Scriptures onto their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
For those who follow the teachings of men who say that homosexuality and other sins are not truly sins, and who say that God will not punish those who engage this practice, this is what the Word of the three times holy God says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says: You will have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.'" (Jeremiah 23:16-17)
If you are speaking only about attraction, you probably have no control over them. However, you can reject acting based upon those attractions. I, for example, face attraction both to girls and to guys, but with the help of God I decide not to give into temptation and hold any kind of homosexual relationship, knowing that it is wrong before God's eyes.
The homosexual/bisexual attraction per se is not sinful, whereas the consumation of actions based on said attraction is.
Furthermore, God made sex to be done within marriage. God made marriage to be between man and woman. Sex outside marriage is wrong before God's eyes. Homosexual relations, as well, fall under this category of fornication and rejection of God's estabilished patterns.
"He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:9).
Exactly.
Your sword is good.. |
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:15 pm
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thestarthatshines Y i J u thestarthatshines The bible disapproves of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean he hates you. He loves you as much as he loves a goody-two shoes Christian. Hate the act, love the person. Just pray about it. =3 I'm not condeming you or anything but what if instead of hating ANYTHING (( even the act )) what if we just loved them like Christ loves us? It was never our job to hate the sin/act. It is only our job to let the love of God shine through us. I think that would help more people understand the love of God more than anything else. Our frowns on their acts make alot of people dislike 'those goody-two shoes Christians'. Remember how you were without Christ? I don't know about you but I was lost, confused, hurting, and I always felt like I was stuggling to get somewhere and never quite making it. So I was led to believe that other things would give me fufillment when they actually wouldn't fill that big empty void inside me... That just so happens to be God-shaped. ah, I'm sorry - I didn't mean it the way it sounded, and you're completely right. I have a bad habit of using the wrong words when trying to say something. u_u
Its ok.
I would try praying to God about better word usage.
That's why it took me a whole day to reply to this topic after reading it.
I wanted the right words to use. ^^ |
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:57 am
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Everyone here seems to have confused "Show me how I have twisted this verse" with "Show me that verses can be twisted".
I already KNOW that verses can be twisted. What I posit is that YOU have twisted verses to condemn something they did not originally mention. Now, I have shown you my evidence. In order to prove me WRONG, you have to refute ALL of that evidence.
When you refute evidence, you must:
1. Read the evidence I give you
2. Understand that evidence.
3. Find evidence that not only contradicts the evidence given, but also supersedes it.
4. Show me that evidence, in a readable manner, without using any logical fallacies.
Does everyone understand? I'm going to refute the posts above to give some examples.
dirtdevilgrunt13 Bible verses can be twisted into ways we want them to be.
I do not deny this. The key, then, is to be able to discern, by looking at all the components of a passage, what the true interpretation is. Normal biblical interpretations don't do that. When you read the Bible, you're only getting the word-for-word translation. You are not given the context, the culture it was written to, the nuances of a particular word, or the history of what that verse has been used for.
dirtdevilgrunt13 How do you think Cult leaders catch there members attention? An example, David Keresh (the branched devidends), he told his members about how they will get into a conferation with the FBI and American Government, and to sound stupid, de de de! They had illegaly weapons, Ak-47s, AR-15s, so on so forth. That wasn't off topic, I was saying these people may pull out bible verses to tell you, YA! It's wrong! Your going to hell! But, as for being Bi, your loyal to your Lord God, you go to church, you pray, so on so forth. Your a Christian and your Bi because that's what attracts to yourself, if that's how God wants you, that's how you shalt be. and for all these other people. "Judge ye not, for ye shalt be judge"
All true. ^-^
-Nexius I- For those who gather their own masters to listen what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4). For those who twist the Scriptures onto their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). For those who follow the teachings of men who say that homosexuality and other sins are not truly sins, and who say that God will not punish those who engage this practice,
This is the logical fallacy of Begging the Question. It assumes that homosexuality is a sin, without first having shown that it is a sin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
"Have you ever talked to rabbits and other fish?" Same logical structure, same fallacy.
-Nexius I- this is what the Word of the three times holy God says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, 'The Lord says: You will have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, 'No harm will come to you.'" (Jeremiah 23:16-17)
Logical fallacy of the Red Herring; this is a statement that on the surface looks relevant, but upon closer inspection actually refers to something entirely different.
"25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces? (Jeremiah 23:25-29)"
This passage is talking about people who have completely ignored the Bible in favour of themselves. They do not read the Bible; they do not know what the Bible says. They do not use the Bible to guide their actions.
On the other hand, my claims are based at their very roots on the Bible. I research the Bible, I use the Bible to guide my life. And I tell you, this is what the Bible says: Homosexuality is NOT a sin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
-Nexius I- If you are speaking only about attraction, you probably have no control over them. However, you can reject acting based upon those attractions. I, for example, face attraction both to girls and to guys, but with the help of God I decide not to give into temptation and hold any kind of homosexual relationship, knowing that it is wrong before God's eyes. The homosexual/bisexual attraction per se is not sinful, whereas the consumation of actions based on said attraction is.
Please give evidence to support this.
-Nexius I- Furthermore, God made sex to be done within marriage. God made marriage to be between man and woman.
Give proof.
Quote: Sex outside marriage is wrong before God's eyes.[ Homosexual relations, as well, fall under this category of fornication and rejection of God's estabilished pattern. "He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:9).
Please prove that homosexual acts are ALWAYS fornication.
trinity343 Dirtdevilgrunt13 Bible verses can be twisted into ways we want them to be. How do you think Cult leaders catch there members attention? An example, David Keresh (the branched devidends), he told his members about how they will get into a conferation with the FBI and American Government, and to sound stupid, de de de! They had illegaly weapons, Ak-47s, AR-15s, so on so forth. That wasn't off topic, I was saying these people may pull out bible verses to tell you, YA! It's wrong! Your going to hell! But, as for being Bi, your loyal to your Lord God, you go to church, you pray, so on so forth. Your a Christian and your Bi because that's what attracts to yourself, if that's how God wants you, that's how you shalt be. and for all these other people. "Judge ye not, for ye shalt be judge" why would God want us to live in sin?...Jesus specifically tells ppl to go and sin no more, that applies to us as well...
Please do not assume being homosexual is living in sin, ESPECIALLY seeing as nobody has yet tried to even LOOK at the evidence I have presented.
trinity343 Romans1:24-27 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. God calls us to live a strict life-style, not one where we go and indulge in our sinful desires, and when we refuse to live the way God lives, he hands us over to our sinful nature, in the NLT wording, he abandons us to do whatever shameful thing our heart desires, he leaves us to live with our own sin,
First, NOBODY lives how God lives. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This does NOT mean that he abandons us! God abandons us when we abandon him entirely. The passage you cite refers to people giving up God entirely, and turning to idolatry. These people become so focused on worldly things that they end up hedonists, always looking for some new physical pleasure. Even though they are naturally straight and they are in wedlock, they abandon their spouses to go searching for sex from anyone they find, the stranger the sex the better.
This passage does not refer to people who are naturally gay, who wait until marriage to have sex, and who stick with their partner for life.
Quote: forgiven...and don't try and blame this on a one time occurrence b/c of surrounding circumstances about pagan practices...this is an all the time thing that we as a church today have allowed to happen. we've allowed sin ti enter in to the body unchallenged and that is why the american church is so corrupt as a whole.
There is no American church. The church is not defined by nationality; it is defined by belief. To claim that a church is defined by nationality induces pride and value of worldly matters. As Christians, we are called to rise above "nation" and look instead for "people".
trinity343 also in response to "...i was saying these ppl may pull out bible verse to tell you, Ya! it's wrong! your going to hell!" 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. that is what scripture is for, while no...that approach might not be the right way to go at it, we are still told what is right and what is wrong through God's word. the meaning behind it does not change from culture to culture or from one point in time to another. it is never changing and always present.
Quote: Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
Given that scripture never changes and should always be taken at face value, please show me that it is morally wrong to own another human being.
trinity343 (NIV)one's sin bring a person to hell..it separates the person from God for all eternity and about the judging thing, we are not to judge a person eternity status...but as Christian we are allowed to correct fellow Christians who are not on the right path. it is our responsibility to help the other grow towards righteousness..and if we don't carry out that responsibility then we are no better then the person who is going down the wrong path
Again, true.
trinity343 hmm...agreed. i think part of the reason we could have attractions to both sexes is b/c God's creation is a wonderful, beautiful thing and that is a natural reaction for us...but i think we need to keep in mind why we might be reacting that way and not act inappropriately b/c of our 'feelings/attractions' :edit: but also i think another part of it is our sinful nature as well
While it may be normal to think of both sexes as beautiful, it is not normal to be sexually attracted to both sexes. This is in the same way that while I may think Van Gogh's empty room is beautiful, I'm not likely to get an erection looking at it.
However, if we DO have attractions to both sexes, then that IS natural; God made us that way, and he wanted us that way.
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:06 am
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trinity343 dirtdevilgrunt13 Bible verses can be twisted into ways we want them to be. How do you think Cult leaders catch there members attention? An example, David Keresh (the branched devidends), he told his members about how they will get into a conferation with the FBI and American Government, and to sound stupid, de de de! They had illegaly weapons, Ak-47s, AR-15s, so on so forth. That wasn't off topic, I was saying these people may pull out bible verses to tell you, YA! It's wrong! Your going to hell! But, as for being Bi, your loyal to your Lord God, you go to church, you pray, so on so forth. Your a Christian and your Bi because that's what attracts to yourself, if that's how God wants you, that's how you shalt be. and for all these other people. "Judge ye not, for ye shalt be judge" why would God want us to live in sin?...Jesus specifically tells ppl to go and sin no more, that applies to us as well... I am not saying to live in sin, God created us all in a way of his choosings. If you also believe he creates our destinys with certain tests and tasks that we must beat and over come. Does this mean he expect us to sin? YES! Were human! I am not saying I don't believe in the bible, I understands it's lessons and what it has to offer to us. I just don't like the fact that I can take a single verse and turn into a world movement like Nazism. As for you question, refere to Adam and Eve. Than to when Noah built his ship, when God flooded the Earth. We sin because were human, and were meant to sin and learn. |
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:03 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:52 pm
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:50 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:59 pm
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