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 Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:56 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Merc Pip Bernadotte Why do people always say the we homosexuals choose to be this way? Did you all choose to be straight then? Well, I've heard murders say they were just born more violent. Child molesters saying they were born that way. It's not that you're born that way, it's that your world has turned over and you found a good feeling in that sin. You can make it okay, you can manipulate text, you can swear up and down. But you were not born that way. People are born with hair color, body color...physical things. Or mentel retardness. And unless you are going to blame being gay or a mentel cond. you were not born with it. Sorry but it's untrue. So to sum it up, it's just a way people try to make it okay, make it seem like it's not their fault...
It's still a choice as to whether or not to act on those tendencies, but I do believe that it's possible to be born with certain traits that give you a natural tendency towards things.
The same could be said of really anything. Why are some people better at music, or drawing, or dancing, or writing, or maths, or science, or public speaking?
We always choose whether or not to indulge in things, but that doesn't mean that we weren't born with the natural aptitude. |
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:15 pm
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SinfulGuillotine It's totally possible that people are born with violent tendencies. It's still a choice as to whether or not to act on those tendencies, but I do believe that it's possible to be born with certain traits that give you a natural tendency towards things. The same could be said of really anything. Why are some people better at music, or drawing, or dancing, or writing, or maths, or science, or public speaking? We always choose whether or not to indulge in things, but that doesn't mean that we weren't born with the natural aptitude.
Hmm that's fair. I have to agree with that. Some people do pick up talents better than others, different cultures, hormones... makes different people.
But you can deside to let your creativity out in different ways. You don't have to get married, have sex, or be bi or gay.
If you choose to engage yourself in a sinful relationship, such as sex before marriage, bi, or gay, I don't have a problem. I sin too! Infact I done the sex-before marriage thing. We slipped up. sad
To me I can't be angery at them, I only get angry when they try to make it 'okay', and try to convince people that it's alright. |
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:29 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Hmm that's fair. I have to agree with that. Some people do pick up talents better than others, different cultures, hormones... makes different people.
Quote: But you can deside to let your creativity out in different ways. You don't have to get married, have sex, or be bi or gay.
You see, having sex or being in a relationship is a choice. Who you're attracted to isn't.
I'll use a less controvercial example. Let's say you're an amazingly talented pianist. Like, practically a prodigy. Playing the piano is something that comes totally naturally to you. Playing Chopin is as easy as breathing, and feels just as good.
You can walk away from that. You can put your nose to the grindstone and become a lawyer instead. You're not as good at it, and you always itch to go back to that piano, but for whatever reason, you force yourself to dress in a suit every day, sit at a desk, and write up wills for complete strangers. You may not be happy, but it pays the bills, and it was the practical choice to make.
However, that doesn't change the fact that were you to sit down at a piano again, you would still be able to play beautifully, and it would still feel completely and totally right. You never stop being a talented musician, even if you chose to ignore that talent and do something else. The talent, be it genetic, God-given, luck-of-the-draw, etc. is not something you chose. That's something that you're born with and that is engrained into who you are. However, what you do or don't do with that talent is your choice.
It's the same with sexuality. A homosexual can force themselves to be in a heterosexual relationship. Many do, in fact. But the fact that they're in a heterosexual relationship does not mean that they're magically heterosexual, much the same way the piano prodigy working as a lawyer didn't stop being a piano prodigy.
Quote: If you choose to engage yourself in a sinful relationship, such as sex before marriage, bi, or gay, I don't have a problem. I sin too! Infact I done the sex-before marriage thing. We slipped up. sad To me I can't be angery at them, I only get angry when they try to make it 'okay', and try to convince people that it's alright.
That, I think, is something that's almost impossible for heterosexuals to grasp. And I don't mean that offensively. It's like you don't know what it's like to climb Mt. Everest until you actually do it. Some things can only be fully understood through first-hand experience.
Being so totally in love with someone that you can get called names, have rocks thrown at you, get beaten so badly that you're in the hospital for a month simply because you love them, and then after all that, being able to look at that person and still think that it's worth it all just to be with them....that's pretty powerful stuff. And I'm inclined to say that that kind of love most certainly is "okay." |
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:45 pm
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:28 am
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Quote: Gods you made me laugh with that. Why do I have so many sources that completely disagree with you?
Simple, there are a lot of gay people trying to make an excuse for their behavier, and a lot of straight people hoping there is an excuse to ease the pain and suffering they endure when a loved one openly brings 'shame' onto their family, sorry if that sounds harsh.
But I don't run into the streets, "Hey Mom I've come out from underneath my dext, I watch porn!!! Lots of, weee, porn!!! I wish I wasn't watching it, but it makes me feel good. I was born to watch this stuff, I'm happy..."
Ohhhh you get the point....
It's 4am, I'm tired and getting ready for work but here is a start... I am looking into your links and taking them as seriuosly as I can. I do see that there is something different, but I havent found proof yet that the 'difference' comes before making the choice to be gay, or after.
And when I say choice I don't mean, "Hmm today, I'm going to change my life forever and have male-male sex"
Like I said before, it's porn...you swear it's nasty...then you look at it... you are hooked...you love it, you change, your sex-drive goes up, you want more and more...gahh I still struggle with it.
Trust me, it's a choice though I have to choose to please my flesh or the Lord. You can love anyone male or female. But you make a chose to stay with them forever, and your sexual desires are your choice.
Why do gay people hide behind things like "it's not my fault"
"I don't want to be this way!"
"I was born this way"
And other odd excuses. No, it's simple, you tried it, you liked it, you kept it. You've ruined yourself, you will always campare what is pure and holy to what is, exciting and fun.
My best friend was bi, she loved other women gonk ... But even she was able to admit she wasn't 'born that way' she just, tried it, loved it, kept it...
It felt good, she didnt care what others thought... She was pleasing her flesh. Infact, every gay person I have ever met in real life (not over the net) openly admits that they grew into that lifestyle, and don't care what people think.
One guy told me, "I got very close to a boy when I was little who was gay, since then I just felt better with men than woman. I know it's wrong, it's just hard because I tried to date a woman and I don't feel the same way. I'm not attracted. I wish I was a girl, because I like men." <---- HONESTY
He may never change, infact that was years ago he never has changed...
But atleast he was honest.
Not "Born that way"
Born or Bred? |
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:57 am
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Tezzy Shadenhand Quote: Gods you made me laugh with that. Why do I have so many sources that completely disagree with you? Simple, there are a lot of gay people trying to make an excuse for their behavier, and a lot of straight people hoping there is an excuse to ease the pain and suffering they endure when a loved one openly brings 'shame' onto their family, sorry if that sounds harsh. But I don't run into the streets, "Hey Mom I've come out from underneath my dext, I watch porn!!! Lots of, weee, porn!!! I wish I wasn't watching it, but it makes me feel good. I was born to watch this stuff, I'm happy..." Ohhhh you get the point.... It's 4am, I'm tired and getting ready for work but here is a start... I am looking into your links and taking them as seriuosly as I can. I do see that there is something different, but I havent found proof yet that the 'difference' comes before making the choice to be gay, or after. And when I say choice I don't mean, "Hmm today, I'm going to change my life forever and have male-male sex" Like I said before, it's porn...you swear it's nasty...then you look at it... you are hooked...you love it, you change, your sex-drive goes up, you want more and more...gahh I still struggle with it. Trust me, it's a choice though I have to choose to please my flesh or the Lord. You can love anyone male or female. But you make a chose to stay with them forever, and your sexual desires are your choice. Why do gay people hide behind things like "it's not my fault" "I don't want to be this way!" "I was born this way" And other odd excuses. No, it's simple, you tried it, you liked it, you kept it. You've ruined yourself, you will always campare what is pure and holy to what is, exciting and fun. My best friend was bi, she loved other women gonk ... But even she was able to admit she wasn't 'born that way' she just, tried it, loved it, kept it... It felt good, she didnt care what others thought... She was pleasing her flesh. Infact, every gay person I have ever met in real life (not over the net) openly admits that they grew into that lifestyle, and don't care what people think. One guy told me, "I got very close to a boy when I was little who was gay, since then I just felt better with men than woman. I know it's wrong, it's just hard because I tried to date a woman and I don't feel the same way. I'm not attracted. I wish I was a girl, because I like men." <---- HONESTY He may never change, infact that was years ago he never has changed... But atleast he was honest. Not "Born that way"Born or Bred? |
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:21 pm
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Quote: What in the world are you talking about? I've wished that I was a girl sometimes too, so what? He feels better with men, explain how then.
I am talking about honesty, I am tired of gays saying "I was born this way"
"It's not my fault", "I wish I wasn't gay, but I am" and the one that gets to me the most is, "God made me gay".
Stop the blame game, you found pleasure in something forbidden, Plain and simple. That's how I view it. No where in the bible does it speak of homosexual relationships to be blessed. And when it does I'll reconsider my views.
But until then it's a personal issue you between you and God. allow him to work in your life and convict you when it's needed.
I know I can't change the world, but I wish people would stop making this so 'okay'.
Please don't take what I have to say personally although I know it sounds like an 'attact' I don't mind that you find your own sex to be more attractive that the other. My issue is just with people trying to find an excuse to make it alright.
Gay relations, porn, murder, adultry, incest, and so many more... they are personal struggles, no more.
I am scared to allow my children to grow up into a world where it's okay to look at the same sex for a partner. Children need a mother and a father, not two moms, or two dads. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:33 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Quote: What in the world are you talking about? I've wished that I was a girl sometimes too, so what? He feels better with men, explain how then. I am talking about honesty, I am tired of gays saying "I was born this way" "It's not my fault", "I wish I wasn't gay, but I am" and the one that gets to me the most is, "God made me gay". Stop the blame game, you found pleasure in something forbidden, Plain and simple. That's how I view it. No where in the bible does it speak of homosexual relationships to be blessed. And when it does I'll reconsider my views. But until then it's a personal issue you between you and God. allow him to work in your life and convict you when it's needed. I know I can't change the world, but I wish people would stop making this so 'okay'. Please don't take what I have to say personally although I know it sounds like an 'attact' I don't mind that you find your own sex to be more attractive that the other. My issue is just with people trying to find an excuse to make it alright. Gay relations, porn, murder, adultry, incest, and so many more... they are personal struggles, no more. I am scared to allow my children to grow up into a world where it's okay to look at the same sex for a partner. Children need a mother and a father, not two moms, or two dads. |
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:27 pm
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Simple, because I believe in God's word, and what he says hold truth. I will not re-write his text, and change it for the happieness of my own or those around me.
I do have faith in God, he will protect my childrens hearts. But I also have common sense, that my children will still be human and make mistakes.
And a young boy needs a mother to teach him how to love a woman, and a father to learn how to be a man. ViceVersa with a daughter! Same sex parents are not the ideal parents for a child being raised in a good Christian home, with Christian morals.
Why isn't this plain enough for you? I don't undersatand why your argue your point I havent seen you actually give me any biblical proof that I am wrong.
God loves homosexuals. God does not, however, love homosexuality. For instance, God says,
Quote: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22)
Quote: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).
God views homosexuality as "detestable" or, as in the King James version of the Bible, "an abomination". Notice also that in the Old Testament, the Mosaic law required that people who committed homosexual acts were to be put to death. Of course, no true Christian today would expect a homosexual to be put to death. Christ came to free us from our bondage under the law. However, anyone who tries to assert that homosexuality is not opposed to God's will, or that homosexuality is okay with God, must go through some severe scriptural contortions to try to prove their point.
Quote: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27)
Why isn't that simple enough to understand? I seen your post on reasons why you say being gay is natural, but you havent yet prooved it's okay in Gods eyes...
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:17 pm
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I love how my lovely, long post was completely ignored. Seriously. stare
Quote: And a young boy needs a mother to teach him how to love a woman, and a father to learn how to be a man. ViceVersa with a daughter! Same sex parents are not the ideal parents for a child being raised in a good Christian home, with Christian morals.
And what, by the way, is the definition of a "man"? Someone who drinks beer out of a can and sits around the house in a baseball cap? Someone who screws women? I have a p***s, and I indentify as being male. As far as I'm concerned, my father did just fine raising me to be a "man." The fact that I'm sexually attracted to other men and would rather read poetry than play rugby doesn't somehow make me less of a man.
Quote: I do have faith in God, he will protect my childrens hearts.
Quote: But I also have common sense, that my children will still be human and make mistakes.
As for the scripture - I suggest reading the Thesis on homosexuality in the Bible, the link for which is on the first page of this thread. Also, I have a website that points out some possible flaws in the texts, which I'll be happy to dig up if you promise to actually take a look at them. I'm not saying that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, but I'm not saying that it does either, and I think that as Christians, it's best to be as educated as possible about the original intent of God's word. I'm not a Biblical scholar, and therefore I really have no grounds to say what the Bible does or doesn't say about anything that's controversial, but it's possible that certain passages were mistranslated, or that the orginal meaning was lost somewhere along the way.
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:35 am
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Sure go ahead and dig-up what you had. And I did state before, I will do my best to follow what HE was writen, and if I do find that the what, how many verses he mentions it to be worng, incorrect, I will change my views based upon HIS word. Thank you by the way for taking my thoughts and bashing them, I did not say children need a male and female father to make them 'not be gay' they need them to nurture them proparly.
SinfulGuillotine I'm not a Biblical scholar, and therefore I really have no grounds to say what the Bible does or doesn't say about anything that's controversial, but it's possible that certain passages were mistranslated, or that the orginal meaning was lost somewhere along the way.
So do you plan to live your life based on the hope that GODs word is wrong? Do we now choose what we would like to be okay in God's eyes? And anything else we try to find a random website they will help us with our hope and search to make the sin not so sinnful. You know there are many verses that show us that God frowns upon it, and yet you hope they are all wrong? I need to leave for work in 5min but this afternoon when i get home I'll see how many I can actually dig up. Then go ahead, take them and tell me what he really meant to say.
When he said he don't want
Correct meaning --> You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Incorrect--> You shall lie with a man as with a woman; it shall be blessed across the nation.
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:17 am
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Tezzy Shadenhand Simple, because I believe in God's word, and what he says hold truth. I will not re-write his text, and change it for the happieness of my own or those around me. I do have faith in God, he will protect my childrens hearts. But I also have common sense, that my children will still be human and make mistakes. And a young boy needs a mother to teach him how to love a woman, and a father to learn how to be a man. ViceVersa with a daughter! Same sex parents are not the ideal parents for a child being raised in a good Christian home, with Christian morals. Why isn't this plain enough for you? I don't undersatand why your argue your point I havent seen you actually give me any biblical proof that I am wrong. God loves homosexuals. God does not, however, love homosexuality. For instance, God says, Quote: Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22) Quote: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13). God views homosexuality as "detestable" or, as in the King James version of the Bible, "an abomination". Notice also that in the Old Testament, the Mosaic law required that people who committed homosexual acts were to be put to death. Of course, no true Christian today would expect a homosexual to be put to death. Christ came to free us from our bondage under the law. However, anyone who tries to assert that homosexuality is not opposed to God's will, or that homosexuality is okay with God, must go through some severe scriptural contortions to try to prove their point. Quote: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27) Why isn't that simple enough to understand? I seen your post on reasons why you say being gay is natural, but you havent yet prooved it's okay in Gods eyes... |
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:28 pm
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:50 pm
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Tezzy Shadenhand Quote: IF big IF there. A Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. Please prove otherwise then. That made no sense, what are you asking me to do? And what do I have to proove, I quoted Gods word, and he made it clear that he frowns on the sin of homosexuality. I keep getting bashed by those who practise gay relationships, and I am told I am wrong. But what am I wrong of? Just because you feel like it should be okay, that doesn't make it okay. Quote: Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. God made you gay? |
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:06 pm
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Merc Pip Bernadotte Tezzy Shadenhand Quote: IF big IF there. A Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. Please prove otherwise then. That made no sense, what are you asking me to do? And what do I have to proove, I quoted Gods word, and he made it clear that he frowns on the sin of homosexuality. I keep getting bashed by those who practise gay relationships, and I am told I am wrong. But what am I wrong of? Just because you feel like it should be okay, that doesn't make it okay. Quote: Judeo-Christian God did make us, and it is natural, he made us that way. God made you gay?
No you did! stressed You allowed yourself to get mixed up into this mess. And only your willingness, with the help of your LORD whom LOVES you can help you out.
GOD does not make you sin. |
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