Exotic Weapons

[Little Green Soldier]

Alright, I've had it with misinformation about these things.

First up, the Dire Flail. I've heard more complaints than I care to count about the physics of this weapon, mostly from people who never took a physics class in their lives.

The Dire Flail is a two handed bludgeoning weapon. It comes in two flavours, one, a three sectioned staff, two, a short pole with a ball and chain at each end.

First, let's establish that this is an existing weapon. It was not created for hahas by Gary Gygax, it does actually exist. I have seen them used. The first incarnation can be seen in the hands of Jet Li in many movies. The second incarnation is rarer, but still usable.

Most dissenters complain that the impact of the first ball would stop the momentum of the rest of the weapon, causing it to injure the wielder. Not true. Remember that this is technically a chain weapon, effectively putting the bludgeoning ends in completely different frames of reference. Since you would be continually spinning the weapon in a figure-eight motion to begin with, the impact of the first ball is used to angle the direction of the follow-through, devastating the target with the second ball. The wielder would then use the few moments of stunned opponent to get the weapon spinning again, preparing for the next strike.

Next: The Dwarven Urgosh. This has been a real weapon for centuries. It's called a pole-axe. 'Nuff said.  

[Iomma Sensei]

Agreed, I use a three section staff all the time and let me tell you...it hurts to get hit in the back on the head by one of those things. It really depends on your skill with the weapon, see, most nerds/geeks go out there and make one (out of PVC pipes and styrofoam padding), and when they go to use it, and being not properly trained in the use of the weapon, they just don't get the feel for how the weapon is supposed to flow. I can use a quarterstaff to break someone's knees, but I coulnd't use a flail to save my life  

[DJ Ducki]

Flails in general are mostly used for like overhead crushing blows, as the base of the swing is amplified with the chain, as you can jump start the swing of it into an even more devestating blow with the spiked ball. I could also see the Dire Flail used like a pole weapon too though, spinning it around your body at the waist in a horizontal hit, then coming into a couple flurries of uppercut like hits with it, or even coming down in the same fashion.  

[Iomma Sensei]

DJ Ducki

Flails in general are mostly used for like overhead crushing blows, as the base of the swing is amplified with the chain, as you can jump start the swing of it into an even more devestating blow with the spiked ball. I could also see the Dire Flail used like a pole weapon too though, spinning it around your body at the waist in a horizontal hit, then coming into a couple flurries of uppercut like hits with it, or even coming down in the same fashion.

I'm gonna stick to quarterstaffs, they're not so shifty on me.  

[Norebo]

I much prefer a chan myself in game and in my actually life you just need to watch the direction you swing it, it's actually quite useful for keepen people about 4 or 5 feet away from you.  

[blakat1313]

There is one major problem, however. Recoil. Since the dire flail and three section staff(they're seperate weapons despite what the srd says) are connected by chains, the recoil can't be absorbed like it normally would. Without proper training, you're going to take a lot of hits from your own weapon.  

[Little Green Soldier]

blakat1313

There is one major problem, however. Recoil. Since the dire flail and three section staff(they're seperate weapons despite what the srd says) are connected by chains, the recoil can't be absorbed like it normally would. Without proper training, you're going to take a lot of hits from your own weapon.

See that bolded part? That's my point. These kids who think they can buy a dire flail from a webstore, and wield it like Jet Li after watching a 15 minute action sequence from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

It is a difficult weapon to wield, that's why using it takes a feat. The feat pretty much says 'I practiced with this'.

I've used both weapons, in real life, with my own two hands (I worked at a renaissance fair). It's tricky, but it works, you just need to understand that you can't swing it like a regular mace.  

[blakat1313]

Little Green Soldier

blakat1313

There is one major problem, however. Recoil. Since the dire flail and three section staff(they're seperate weapons despite what the srd says) are connected by chains, the recoil can't be absorbed like it normally would. Without proper training, you're going to take a lot of hits from your own weapon.

See that bolded part? That's my point. These kids who think they can buy a dire flail from a webstore, and wield it like Jet Li after watching a 15 minute action sequence from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

It is a difficult weapon to wield, that's why using it takes a feat. The feat pretty much says 'I practiced with this'.

I've used both weapons, in real life, with my own two hands (I worked at a renaissance fair). It's tricky, but it works, you just need to understand that you can't swing it like a regular mace.

Still, I would probably say that the rules for not being proficient shouldn't apply for chained wepons. You have to know what your doing or you'll get a lot more than a penalty to your attack roll.  

[DJ Ducki]

blakat1313

Little Green Soldier

blakat1313

There is one major problem, however. Recoil. Since the dire flail and three section staff(they're seperate weapons despite what the srd says) are connected by chains, the recoil can't be absorbed like it normally would. Without proper training, you're going to take a lot of hits from your own weapon.

See that bolded part? That's my point. These kids who think they can buy a dire flail from a webstore, and wield it like Jet Li after watching a 15 minute action sequence from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

It is a difficult weapon to wield, that's why using it takes a feat. The feat pretty much says 'I practiced with this'.

I've used both weapons, in real life, with my own two hands (I worked at a renaissance fair). It's tricky, but it works, you just need to understand that you can't swing it like a regular mace.

Still, I would probably say that the rules for not being proficient shouldn't apply for chained wepons. You have to know what your doing or you'll get a lot more than a penalty to your attack roll.

That would probably be more forced into a house rule for the DM. For everyone that wields any weapon, usually on the roll of a Nat 1, you usually trip and/or fowl up your attack and either hit yourself, your friend or sometimes on a rare occasion, still hit the opponent in a wield way. You'd probably have to depict like, if the fighter using, oh say, a Spiked Chain, attacks a Goblin with an AC of 15. Take into consideration where the goblin's AC is coming from. 1 of it would be because it's small, 2 of it because of it's DEX and 2 of it because of some armor it's wearing. Now take a thought of this, if the fighter attacked, swung and somehow got a 6 on his attack roll, it's safe to say the Goblin didn't have to move, the attack just outright missed him and may result in a recoil hit on the fighter. But, if your fighter swung and got a 13 or 14 (matching touch AC but missing on total), it's say to assume the chain that was swung hit the goblin's armor or a non-vital part that would take damage, and would lessen the swing enough that it wouldn't recoil. Definitely on true hits, chains wouldn't recoil at all. Here's the suggestion for rules like that with recoil hits. Nat 1s, Attacks that miss below base AC (10) and (maybe, this is up to you) attacks that are below Touch AC) would quite possibly have a recoil effect (probably a 50% percentile dice check). Just, you should note to Chain fighters or anything, any chain fighter that has at least the Whirlwind attack feat would be immune to the hit like that, as they know how to move with the swinging chain, being able to avoid any recoil and actually convert any potenial recoil attack into a whirlwind attack (if your running recoil attacks, your gonna wanna run that fact, because it's a true thing, although it may mess up your idea of people hitting themselves on recoil, it also gives them the chance, once they get Whirlwind Attack, that they can make a whirlwind attack on any potential recoiled hit.)  

[CHIEF_NITRO]

hi  

[Fiver]

All right, how about this one: The tuning sword. smile Kiss reality goodbye!

And when it comes to weapon of choice, I'll take a foil rapier any day. wink  

[Iomma Sensei]

Fiver

All right, how about this one: The tuning sword. smile Kiss reality goodbye!

And when it comes to weapon of choice, I'll take a foil rapier any day. wink

The foil has it's benifits, being that it is light and highly manuverable (fencing, I know). The thin blade makes it perfect for sliding between the cracks of heavier armors or ribs, and its lightweight design makes it faster than most other swords.

I still prefer using my bare hands to none. Kempo! Hooaah!  

[MT the Clown]

This really bring to light personal preference. All weapon have a up and down to it. For me I break it down to a few catagories of use: flexible, defense, offense, and all-rounder. My flexible weapon of choice is definately the nunchuks, with a combination of melee and semi-distance, it really allows me to control the distance I want to fight at. A sturdy set of steel tonfa are great for defensive fighting while being able to get a few hits in. For offensive I chose the bo over the doa, for its sheer weight and velocity. Finally, cliche as it is, the japanese katana shall always be me all-rounder weapon. So what are you weapon picks? And if some says gun...well someone start another thread so we can talk about modern weapons later.  

[Fiver]

I love the foil for two reasons.

First: swords proved their superiority by becoming the weapon of choice... everywehere. When the Italians came up with the rapier, it came to light that someone who was any good with a rapier easily bested even the most skilled swordsmen with any other kind of sword. Finally, the French perfected what the Italians started by realizing that swords don't actually need to cut, producing a rapier which could easily reach past any other.

The second reason is I just find the idea of kicking someone's a** while looking like a total pansy hilarious.  

[Iomma Sensei]

Fiver

I love the foil for two reasons.

First: swords proved their superiority by becoming the weapon of choice... everywehere. When the Italians came up with the rapier, it came to light that someone who was any good with a rapier easily bested even the most skilled swordsmen with any other kind of sword. Finally, the French perfected what the Italians started by realizing that swords don't actually need to cut, producing a rapier which could easily reach past any other.

The second reason is I just find the idea of kicking someone's a** while looking like a total pansy hilarious.

Fruitcake whee

Hey, at least you don't look like a drunk when you fight (stupid balancing issue ><).