Black Magick, what is it?

[Kato Kitoma]

Black Magick can harm people and/or it violates free will. Lets take a Love spell for example. If I have someones permission to perform a spell on them that will make them more open to love, then it is a white spell. However, if I cast a spell on someone that will instantly make them fall in love with me, then that is black. I did not actually harm them: however, since I am not the God nor am I the Goddess I should not be messing with free will. That's their job not mine, yours or anyone elses. Thank you and have a nice day.

(Made in memory of Change_of_Heart_13 who did not understand the difference...)


Clue #4: "I'm worth millions! How much are you worth?"  

[wolfsbanemoon]

If ever you're not sure, ask someone's advice first. There will more than likely be MAJOR reprocussions. Remember the threefold rule...  

[MT Hart]

I got a question. Is a truth spell considered black magic? o-o I was told it depends on how it's used. ">> In my familie's grimore (sp?) they have a few spells like that. My family is full of women that have had...men trouble if you will. ">>  

[dark_angel_32189]

Kyo Takamaru

I got a question. Is a truth spell considered black magic? o-o I was told it depends on how it's used. ">> In my familie's grimore (sp?) they have a few spells like that. My family is full of women that have had...men trouble if you will. ">>

There use to be a thread about these, but it appears to have been deleted. Truth spells are very risky. Most of them will be considered black magick. If it goes against anyone's free will it is considered black magick. I'll have to go see if I can find the one Jace said was ok to use.

Edit: I believe this is the one he said was ok:

TO SHOW YOU THE TRUTH OF A SITUATION
Four or six bananas Palm butter Red cotton thread or wool/yarn
Parchment or brown paper Red ink or Dove's Blood ink Quill Nail
Start this spell on a Friday.
Buy a banana bunch in the name of Chango.
Write your wish on parchment and fold toward you.
Slip paper to fit tightly between bananas.
Rub palm butter on bananas.
Wrap banana bunch with red string or yarn until you can no longer see the folded paper.
Hang banana bunch on a nail outside by your front door.
By the time the bunch is black and withered you will have your answer or your wish granted.


I think that was the right one. I read it and it looks ok. If it's not than you can slap me in the face with a bunch of bananas. Just remember that you can't use the spell on any specific people. I would highly suggest that you don't use any type of truth spell... that's just my opinion though.


Another edit: Silly me, here's the thread I was looking for: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=3656837  

[MT Hart]

Thanks I'll sheck that out. THe spells in the back of the book are ones that were used for those that betrayed. None of the spells cause fatal or dead, mostly they cause rashses and forgetfulness. The truth spells have notes at the bottom. -__- Like I said my family has some issues. The worse spell I used was a sort of itching spell on my sister's boyfriend after he slammed her against the car and threathened to kill her. However, they're is the three fold rule and I caught a fever afterwards, though I excepted it nicely. ^^ I didn't even take meds. I think I'll avoid using truth spells just to be safe.  

[Helmorana]

I'm not Wiccan... Obviously.

I was always taught that what goes around comes around times three. Folk wisdom, nothing Wiccan about it.

It was tried to make me believe magic had colours, that you can just divide it into a structure, a form. If you do it this way then it's blue, if you do it that way it's red, if you do it like that it's white, black, grey... I still think it's bullshit. The only level to which I'll go is to specify something bad by it as Black magic and something good as White. Folk way of saying. A habit, if you will.

But I developed a belief system of my own... that makes a lot more sense to me... but then I never felt any attraction, any... pull towards the God and the Goddess. Wasn't my kind of a thing... I prefer fairy tales that are a few centures old, opposed to something barely over a 100 years.

I worship Slavic, Nordic and sometimes, every once in a while, if something makes me acknowledge them, the Celtic gods. Well, the ones from the Scottish/Irish Celts anyways... Since pretty much all mythological systems of europe are connected to the Celts in some way.

My gods weren't all good, in fact, some were rather mischievous... And Odin, a class for itself. Not what you'd call your average goody-two-shoes god. Definitely interesting, there's more to him, some form of dark mystery... As is the same with all of them. Those are the gods who rule me. Loki makes me roar with anger when he pulls something off, Thor makes me jump of surprise when a lighting strikes all of a sudden, Freya tickles my feet when I try to catch the dog on the grass...

What goes around comes around, certianly. But life is built of good and bad. White AND black. Sometimes you just gotta do or risk something that is morally questionable by the Wiccan standards. Sometimes, for your own mental benefit you just need to do something "Black, Bad..." Jing and Jang. Not everything's nice in the world, sometimes you just gotta stop fighting them and join them. When the need occurs.

There is light in darkness too. Everything's good for something. If I screw up, the gods will still love me, I am their creation. Just as imperfect as they. With flaws and qualities... This is my life, if it was only dyed in white there wouldn't be enough fire for me to enjoy it.  

[TheCrazy_writer]

I dont believe magick is black or white in the way you see it. To define magick in this way good or bad is a little annoying to me. I think its just as bad as the wizard of oz when glenda ask dorothy if she is a good witch or a bad witch. Everything in this world has its good and bad I dont believe things can be only good or only bad. The god and goddess can be viewed as polarities or even like ying and yang. And magick in general is neither good nor bad. It is simply a persons perspective of it that can see it as good or bad. I am not a wiccan but I have studied wicca and witchcraft and my statement however is just my opinion.  

[Aurellion]

What you're saying is right - there is no ultimate evil, or ultimate good. Both reside in the Lord and Lady - like Helmorana said, take Odin for an example. Of course there are shades of grey - we don't live in some cheesy 50's old TV show. xd However, stuff that is percieved to harm someone is generally named black magick: a folkway of saying things.

Helmorana, I've never heard anything of this magic having colours such as red and blue, and yes, I also believe it to be bull. I'm probably speaking for most of the guild here - if not all. I have but one question: if you feel no 'pull' to the Lord and Lady, then why do you worship them anyway? Slavic and Nordic are the Lord and Lady, if you will. Some people prefer to put a name and a face to them - this is sometimes referred to as your patron Goddess or God. Others, like myself will either acknowledge all their forms or simply assign no face and refer to the divine power as the Lord and Lady.

Of course there is light in darkness. Death makes us appreciate life, and prepares us for the next adventure. From a ravaging flood comes good soil, creating thriving plants. Like I said, there is no ultimate evil and no ultimate good.  

[Helmorana]

--aurellion--

Helmorana, I've never heard anything of this magic having colours such as red and blue, and yes, I also believe it to be bull. I'm probably speaking for most of the guild here - if not all.

Lucky you then. Green magic = Eco Magic, Red magic = Sex magic and so on and so on.

_______________________

I am going to speak straightly here, without apologising if what I say may insult anyone, it's easier if I just say before I start that anyone is entitled to his/hers beliefs and that I will just convey mine.

Quote:

I have but one question: if you feel no 'pull' to the Lord and Lady, then why do you worship them anyway? Slavic and Nordic are the Lord and Lady, if you will. Some people prefer to put a name and a face to them - this is sometimes referred to as your patron Goddess or God. Others, like myself will either acknowledge all their forms or simply assign no face and refer to the divine power as the Lord and Lady.

I don't. Worship the Lord and the Lady, I mean. I find them to be fictional characters that were applied the names of old deities to give them some form of credibility.

If your argument is that they're all one and the same god and goddess then I believe you're wrong. Of course there are similarities between Aphrodite and Freya, they're both goddesses of love and fertility, but it's not like Greek and Roman where they were actually just stolen and given different names, the cultures are completely different.

In Slavic mythology Morana is the goddess of death, in Nordic Hel is the queen of the underworld, a connection, yes. But I am a metalhead with a fondness for Tolkien and Uruviel is a metalhead with a fondness for Tolkien, we, however, are not one and the same being.

I don't connect the Lord and Lady to any of the gods I worship. You can call the Lady Freya, Hekate, Isis, Diana, whatever you want, but that isn't going to make all of them suddenly appear in one being. They have different historical background, different cultural background, different personal background. The one thing they all have in common is that they're all female and were worshiped at a point in time. I suppose you believe that the Goddess is universal, that it embodies everything that was ever found in a woman... I don't agree. If you call out to Freya, you'll get Freya and her personality is certianly different than that of Morana or Frigg. When there's a group of friends walking away from you and you want to get one's attention, do you call them (let us say) Jake and Mike turns around, because, naturally, he is the same being as Jake, you've just given him a different name.

I think Gods are different. I don't find Thor to be a part of Odin by any other means than being his son, I don't think Triglav and Odin are the same. Certianly not.

Try calling out Loki (or, rather not, he'd make a mess out of everything and laugh, but per instance) and telling him that he's just a split personality of Balder. That they're actually one and the same person... And wait for his reaction.

I probably didn't make myself clear and this is written in a very chaotic manner, my point is just, I don't worship the Lord and Lady, I don't believe they exist. If right now, you asked me to define what Lord and Lady means to people, I'd have to say I think Lord only means Gods and Lady Goddesses for people who prefer the world less complicated, and see no need why there should be 5 gods for the same thing, even if they are different gods, different history, different culture. In a way, I think Lord and Lady are the globalisation of mythology.  

[Aurellion]

'sall good then. biggrin That's the great thing about the Wicca way - it's varied, you can have different beliefs such as this polytheism that we're talking about.

It wasn't chaotic at all: in fact, my post was probably even more chaotic. sweatdrop Nex time, I'll know not to post after a frazzling day at school.

Don't worry, you've not insulted me yet. xd Try harder! Tee-hee.  

[Helmorana]

I'd rather not smile I didn't mean to insult you (and I'm glad I didn't), it's just that people often react that way to my beliefs. smile That... and I'm not one to be gentle when voicing them usually.

And I'm not Wiccan. ninja  

[shivanti]

would it be considered black magic if you made a spell that asked for the truth about something in your life, and truth might be telling you some knowledge that someone else knows and doesnt want you to know? smile i hope that makes sense...  

[Miss Lune Soleil]

Technically harm doesn't violate the Rede... o.O