Unitarian Universalism

[Bastemhet]

I've been wanting to check out the local UU church and have generally seen positive reviews of them so far. They seem to be inclusive of even pagans but I'm wary of just how much of my personal beliefs will have to be bent to fit into whatever generic schema they have going on.

Does anybody have any reviews of them? I mainly am interested in joining to have a spiritual community since I can't find a Kemetic group near me and feel like solely online interactions lack a personal element.  

[`S e v e n]

I have only been once and that was last Sunday. From my perspective they are incredibly welcoming. The particular UU in my area has a pagan group called the Mystic Grove. They gather for Sabbats as well as having a study group every Thursday, so yes, I can say that they are inclusive of pagans.

UUA

We welcome people who identify with and draw inspiration from Atheism and Agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Humanism, Judaism, Paganism, and other religious or philosophical traditions.

From what I can tell, you do not have to give up your personal beliefs in any capacity. Rather, they encourage you to uphold the 7 principles that they have developed.

Seven Principles

1.The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

All I can say is go check it out. There's no harm in attending one service. I am not a Kemetic pagan, but the reason you gave is the exact reason why I decided to go.  

[Bastemhet]

Er...aren't sabbats for Wiccans? I don't celebrate those. But I do like those principles. Thanks for sharing.  

[Deoridhe]

Bastemhet

Er...aren't sabbats for Wiccans? I don't celebrate those. But I do like those principles. Thanks for sharing.

Sabbats/Sabaths/etc... is just an old Jewish/Christian word for Holy day, really. Pronunciation varies, but they're all pretty close.  

[Bastemhet]

Deoridhe

Bastemhet

Er...aren't sabbats for Wiccans? I don't celebrate those. But I do like those principles. Thanks for sharing.

Sabbats/Sabaths/etc... is just an old Jewish/Christian word for Holy day, really. Pronunciation varies, but they're all pretty close.

Ah, I see. I wonder whose holy days they celebrate then...? Something tells me they probably would not celebrate wp rnpt.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Bastemhet

Ah, I see. I wonder whose holy days they celebrate then...? Something tells me they probably would not celebrate wp rnpt.

Unitarian Universalists hold services on holy days belonging to many different traditions. They may celebrate Kemetic holidays as well in a branch known as The Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans, commonly called CUUPs. Since each congregation is diverse and services are often officiated by members- you may even be asked to lead a discussion or a ritual for your own tradition.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Oh look, a thread just for me! 4laugh

*cough* More seriously... UU churches are mostly independent from each other, so if you don't like the first one you try a different one could be more your cup of tea, if you live in a place that has more than one within a doable distance, which you may not. There's also the Church of the Larger Fellowship which serves people who don't have a nearby physical church.

Some churches have a CUUPs (Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans) chapter associated with them (although I hear there's a bit of a brouhaha these days about whether CUUPs is really affiliated with the UU system anymore, but I don't have any details). Sometimes it can be a good place to socialize and work with other pagans; sometimes it's a den of culture rapists.

There's also the UUPA (UU Polyamory Association) which has chapters all over and a mailing list if that's on your path.

UU has an undeniable Christian history, so various churches are also more Jesus-y than others. For example, First Unitarian of Baltimore, the one I attend these days, has a huge Tiffany mosaic of the Last Supper behind the pulpit/lectern area, which makes some people who are less into Jesus uncomfortable; to balance it, the church has put up beautiful painted shields of sacred symbols from various other paths underneath it, and gorgeous quilted tapestries showing a respect for diverse sexualities and world community among other things are displayed around the sanctuary. Most UU churches respect Jesus as one of many human spiritual teachers.

In my experience, UU congregations tend to be predominantly White, but that could also vary by region and church and I just haven't seen it. But I don't know enough about the history of UU and the social issues at play to be able to tell you why. I also don't know about the class makeup. I do know it's a popular religion for queer, poly, and kinky people, although your reception by individuals may vary.

Your experience may also depend on whether the main minister is more of a Unitarian or more of a Universalist, was raised UU or converted, is a theist or not, and many other things. Luckily, even if you don't like the main minister, many churches have a pair of ministers working together or several, and many churches organize and are receptive to lay services.

I love organs and church choirs and hymns, and the UU churches I have attended all had a great selection of all these. The UU hymnal is Singing the Living Tradition which has songs written or adapted by UUs or from many different traditions.

Problems people can find with UU...
-If you're coming from a different faith tradition, it's either not focused enough on your own path, or it's focused too much on the path you grew up on that you left for a reason.
-While there is a Principle dealing with "free and responsible search for truth and meaning," you can and will find autonomous churches and individuals interpreting this as they see fit and crossing the line into culture rape. Tea explains this phenomenon well.
-Some people find there's more of an emphasis on tolerance of everything than on acceptance/affirmation of important/positive/integrity things, and there may not be a process in place whereby to deter acts, like culture rape, that are against the spirit of UU but not necessarily the letter.
-Which brings us to: UU has limited letter. We have seven Principles and six Sources as a religion, which don't really say anything about what you're supposed to believe, plus almost anything an individual wants to incorporate into their personal a/theology. The religion is based more in unifying practice than unifying belief and that puts some people off. Or, it could be perfect for someone who is seeking a worship community and not a new creed.

If the church has a beginners' group or other type of introductory class for people new to UU or new to that church, I recommend checking it out. Hopefully it would give you the chance to talk to the minister and church staff, get a tour, ask questions, and see what other new people are looking for. That's also what coffee hour after service is for. Many churches also have book groups, adult RE classes, women's groups, men's groups, young adult groups, and social groups to get to know people outside of services. Many churches also offer Build Your Own Theology classes to help people clarify their personal beliefs in community.

If you get really into it and have the means and the time, you can go to General Assembly, which is basically a huge yearly UU policy-setting convention/party.

In the end though, you just have to show up and see how you feel, since there's not much of a religion-wide guarantee of similar experience wherever you go. UU is about as far from the McDonald's of religion as you can get in that way.

[/resident UU]  

[CuAnnan]

TheDisreputableDog

While there is a Principle dealing with "free and responsible search for truth and meaning," you can and will find autonomous churches and individuals interpreting this as they see fit and crossing the line into culture rape. Tea explains this phenomenon well.

That's not the problem.
The problem is the lack of action on behalf of the UU heirarchy to decry this.
If it's inability, it's a problem. If it's unwillingness, it's a problem.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

CuAnnan

If it's inability, it's a problem. If it's unwillingness, it's a problem.

I have a question about this.

If a structure does not enable a body to address a specific action, is the absence always a problem?

I feel the intention of the Unitarian Universalism is to provide the most basic accords and still allow for autonomy.

Wouldn't the issues with responsibility fall on the individuals in the same way they fall on the individuals in other religions?  

[CuAnnan]

Brass Bell Doll

If a structure does not enable a body to address a specific action, is the absence always a problem?

I feel the intention of the Unitarian Universalism is to provide the most basic accords and still allow for autonomy.

Wouldn't the issues with responsibility fall on the individuals in the same way they fall on the individuals in other religions?

I'm not seeing how this mitigates the religion's culpability for the actions of their ordained clergy.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Brass Bell Doll

CuAnnan

If it's inability, it's a problem. If it's unwillingness, it's a problem.

I have a question about this.

If a structure does not enable a body to address a specific action, is the absence always a problem?

I feel the intention of the Unitarian Universalism is to provide the most basic accords and still allow for autonomy.

Wouldn't the issues with responsibility fall on the individuals in the same way they fall on the individuals in other religions?

Sort of. Individual churches are autonomous, and have given the UUA power by vote to do certain things like manage budgets and the like; but I'm not too clear on the details since I didn't pay attention to these things when I was a kid and I'm only recently getting back into the church infrastructure as an adult.

As far as I am aware, there is central UU hierarchy and authority only insofar as the collective churches give it; but the UUA has on occasion overridden this on certain issues, but I don't know the details. So a) the UUA hasn't used that authority on this issue, and b) the collective churches haven't either.

I'll have to do more research on it though.  

[Gho the Girl]

CuAnnan

Brass Bell Doll

If a structure does not enable a body to address a specific action, is the absence always a problem?

I feel the intention of the Unitarian Universalism is to provide the most basic accords and still allow for autonomy.

Wouldn't the issues with responsibility fall on the individuals in the same way they fall on the individuals in other religions?

I'm not seeing how this mitigates the religion's culpability for the actions of their ordained clergy.

The ordained clergy as a whole or the ones specifically guilty of the transgression?  

[Brass Bell Doll]

CuAnnan

I'm not seeing how this mitigates the religion's culpability for the actions of their ordained clergy.

I think at a point the religion is only culpable for meeting their stated obligations and individuals are responsible for their own actions.

In this same way, if a church body gives direct permission for a wrong to be done as part of their spiritual practice, then they would be responsible for that wrong, but if individuals act against the spirit and intention of the church's guidelines, then the individuals are the ones culpable. I feel that when we examine the wrong doing of spiritual leaders, we do not condemn the whole religion for the actions of individuals, contrast this with something like the Catholic scandals that are exposed today- the Church engaged in deceit in order to protect itself, therefor the Church itself is guilty of wrongdoing.  

[CuAnnan]

Brass Bell Doll

I think at a point the religion is only culpable for meeting their stated obligations and individuals are responsible for their own actions.

Why?

Brass Bell Doll

In this same way, if a church body gives direct permission for a wrong to be done as part of their spiritual practice, then they would be responsible for that wrong, but if individuals act against the spirit and intention of the church's guidelines, then the individuals are the ones culpable. I feel that when we examine the wrong doing of spiritual leaders, we do not condemn the whole religion for the actions of individuals, contrast this with something like the Catholic scandals that are exposed today- the Church engaged in deceit in order to protect itself, therefor the Church itself is guilty of wrongdoing.

If the Church did not cover it up but did not formally decry it as wrong doing, they'd have been every bit as ******** morally culpable just of a different crime.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

CuAnnan

Why?

I feel that in the end, we are responsible for our own actions as individuals.

CuAnnan

If the Church did not cover it up but did not formally decry it as wrong doing, they'd have been every bit as ******** morally culpable just of a different crime.

I agree with you, but I also feel that the framework of the Unitarian Universalist Church is not designed to create a religious body in the sense I'm familiar with. Instead, they're like Wiccan Covens. Autonomous.