Another Question!

[a-little-piggy]

I am SOOOO excited! I found a Wiccan church near where I live!

Yes that's right, a church... this raises my question. The church is ran by a council elected by voters so it is a "democratic election" that chooses the members. The church encourages children to come and there are about 40 members. They meet every esbat and every sabbat. They are legally recognized as a church by the state and they hold all of the rights as any other church.

Is this "wiccan"? Every time someone says they're "wiccan" they are asked their lineage. Would I be "wiccan" if I went to this church? (I'm not saying this because I want the title or anything) I'm pretty sure there are no initiations or anything.

This confuses me.  

[Cranium Squirrel]

Sounds eclectic neo-pagan to me, given what I know of how high priest and priestess are generally selected and the fact they want kids at the rituals, so I'd have to go with probably not Wiccan.  

[too2sweet]

If there are no initiations, then it is not Wiccan. Even if there were some sort of initiations being done, children are not initiated into Wicca - it would be a violation of the Ardanes (and would probably lead to child molestation charges for the initiator as well). sweatdrop

If the place still sounds interesting to you, you should still check it out. Just because it is more of an eclectic/neo-pagan based path, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. It just means that it's not Wicca.

Do they have a website, or can you give us the name of the Church?  

[aoijea23487]

It depends on what definition of WIcca you agree with.

If we're going with Deborah Lipp's definition or the definitions given by the Gardnerians I know and studied under, it might be. But you will have to give me praxic and theological information, or a link to the website.

If we're going with the standard M&R definition here on Gaia and on lists like Amber and Jet, the answer is definitely no, as British Traditional Wicca cannot really work in a church setting to begin with, as it is closed to non-initiates. The exception to this rule is The New Wiccan Church, which is open to initiates of properly lineaged covens only.  

[a-little-piggy]

Here is the website: Church of Wicca

<3  

[Calelith]

a-little-piggy

Here is the website: Church of Wicca

<3

As you were, I was

Piedmont, NC? How far is that from the beach?

Edit:
It sounds like a Fluffy Neo-Pagan Church that has been mislabeled Wicca and that is just looking over the faith page.

As I am, you will be

 

[Brass Bell Doll]

Calelith

a-little-piggy

Here is the website: Church of Wicca

<3

As you were, I was

Piedmont, NC? How far is that from the beach?

Edit:
It sounds like a Fluffy Neo-Pagan Church that has been mislabeled Wicca and that is just looking over the faith page.

As I am, you will be

May I ask what you feel is Fluffy about their page?  

[too2sweet]

Calelith

Piedmont, NC? How far is that from the beach?

It's on the other side of the state from us.

Quote:

It sounds like a Fluffy Neo-Pagan Church that has been mislabeled Wicca and that is just looking over the faith page.

That it's mislabeled, doesn't necessarily make it "fluffy". I'd be more worried about whether or not they are in any way affiliated with the Frosts. If I'm not mistaken they are/used to be based out of NC and at one point were operating (maybe they still are) under the "Church of Wicca".  

[Brass Bell Doll]

too2sweet

That it's mislabeled, doesn't necessarily make it "fluffy". I'd be more worried about whether or not they are in any way affiliated with the Frosts. If I'm not mistaken they are/used to be based out of NC and at one point were operating (maybe they still are) under the "Church of Wicca".

Gavin and Yvonne Frost? They reside in Hinton, West Virgina.

I'm not concerned that the two groups are associated. One is known as The North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca and was founded in 1990, the other is The Church and School of Wicca and was founded in the sixties.  

[AvalonAuggie]

too2sweet

That it's mislabeled, doesn't necessarily make it "fluffy". I'd be more worried about whether or not they are in any way affiliated with the Frosts. If I'm not mistaken they are/used to be based out of NC and at one point were operating (maybe they still are) under the "Church of Wicca".

Well you're only eligible to apply for membership if you're 18 or older, so that's a good sign.  

[patch99329]

The website suggests this is an eclectic neopagan group, but then again as Illiezeulette said, it depends on your definition of wicca.

I echo what has been said above; just because it may have been mislabled does not make it fluffy.  

[too2sweet]

Brass Bell Doll

too2sweet

That it's mislabeled, doesn't necessarily make it "fluffy". I'd be more worried about whether or not they are in any way affiliated with the Frosts. If I'm not mistaken they are/used to be based out of NC and at one point were operating (maybe they still are) under the "Church of Wicca".

Gavin and Yvonne Frost? They reside in Hinton, West Virgina.

I'm not concerned that the two groups are associated. One is known as The North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca and was founded in 1990, the other is The Church and School of Wicca and was founded in the sixties.

I had seen something that said they were based out of New Bern, NC at one point, but I didn't know how current that info was.

My concern was that they might have in someway either been a "downline" of the Frosts (and possibly carrying on their teachings).  

[aoijea23487]

AvalonAuggie

too2sweet

That it's mislabeled, doesn't necessarily make it "fluffy". I'd be more worried about whether or not they are in any way affiliated with the Frosts. If I'm not mistaken they are/used to be based out of NC and at one point were operating (maybe they still are) under the "Church of Wicca".

Well you're only eligible to apply for membership if you're 18 or older, so that's a good sign.

How so? This is clearly not a British Traditional Wiccan group, so age is irrelevant unless they practice ritual nudity or ritual sex.

According to the definitions given by several initiated, properly lineaged Gardnerians I know first-hand (and not-first-hand, like Deborah Lipp and Margot Adler), the church is considered Wiccan in the broader sense of the word. It is by no means British Traditional, though of course some initiates of those traditions may very well attend independent of their history/current practice.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

too2sweet

I had seen something that said they were based out of New Bern, NC at one point, but I didn't know how current that info was.

My concern was that they might have in someway either been a "downline" of the Frosts (and possibly carrying on their teachings).

Gavin and Yvonne Frost have published dozens of books. Of them, one book released several decades ago had passages in it that are morally questionable, but were not uncommon for the era.

In the nineteen sixties, the Kinsey Reports had trickled down from academia into mainstream culture and the way in which children develop, including their sexuality, was beginning to be explored in a more honest way- it lead to some unfortunate statements that should never have been made and while I do not condone the initial publication- I can understand how it came about. I'm more troubled by the response it created in later editions of the book, but people do not always think clearly when they feel they are being attacked.

I don't condone either publication nor the overall way they have handled it through the years, but I feel it would be a stretch to worry that a group might be guilty of child molestation simply because of a tenuous link to a bit of experimental sixties doctrine that fell by the wayside decades ago. Anyone who would do horrible things to children now would likely not be doing it within The Church and School of Wicca- but instead would have to backtrack to the first edition of the book and recreate the situations therein.

These days, what really bothers me about the Frosts is their pride and arrogance. It's one thing to make a mistake when you do not understand the implications of your words. It's another thing to try and down play or revise the mistake instead of actually apologizing for it.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Illiezeulette

AvalonAuggie

Well you're only eligible to apply for membership if you're 18 or older, so that's a good sign.

How so? This is clearly not a British Traditional Wiccan group, so age is irrelevant unless they practice ritual nudity or ritual sex.

According to the definitions given by several initiated, properly lineaged Gardnerians I know first-hand (and not-first-hand, like Deborah Lipp and Margot Adler), the church is considered Wiccan in the broader sense of the word. It is by no means British Traditional, though of course some initiates of those traditions may very well attend independent of their history/current practice.

I was referring to the chance of a Frost connection. Whether or not they incorporate ritual nudity or sex, the presence of an age restriction for full membership at least indicates a respect for the law and makes it less likely that child abuse is present in the ritual format.

Granted, this can't be known for certain without actually attending the services or joining the church.