Holy Spirit - Do you need to be saved to have it?

[ScarletCape]

We got into an interesting debate during my Sunday School class this morning. We were debating wether a person has the Holy Spirit inately or do you get it when you are saved? It is my belief that you can't have the Holy Spirit unless you are saved. How can you know the Holy Spirit without knowing Jesus first? That is my arguement. Some people don't agree with this and feel that everyone has the Holy Spirit inately and that something wakes it up, so to speak. What do you all think?  

[ioioouiouiouio]

both sides have valid points, however, the entire debate is intrinsic upon whether or not humans have free will. If we do, the humans choose God and the Holy Spirit flows into us as a reaction to that choice. However, if we do not have free will, then the Holy Spirit is always in us, only waiting untill God sees fit to show itself.  

[Theopneustos]

I would call the Holy Spirit "Him," not "it." He is personal, not impersonal. Now, to be saved, you would need to have the Holy Spirit, not the other way around. You cannot be saved apart from the Holy Spirit.  

[Rage of Achilles]

Scripture says that the unsaved cannot have the holy spirit in them.

Luke 11:13 is good, and John 20:22 talks about recieving it.  

[ScarletCape]

Count of Monte Kyo

Scripture says that the unsaved cannot have the holy spirit in them.

Luke 11:13 is good, and John 20:22 talks about recieving it.

Thank you so much! These are great Scriptures. Wouldn't you know it, one of the people argueing with me has the Luke verse memorized. Too funny.  

[HonorBoundKnight]

But didn't John the baptist have the Spirit from birth?  

[immanuelkant]

HonorBoundKnight

But didn't John the baptist have the Spirit from birth?

No, Luke states that Elizabeth (John's mother) was filled with the Holy Spirit upon John in her womb meeting Jesus (Luke 1:41) and that John the Baptist grew up strong in the Spirit (Luke 1:80), but not that he was born with the Spirit.  

[yzz_90]

Theopneustos

I would call the Holy Spirit "Him," not "it." He is personal, not impersonal. Now, to be saved, you would need to have the Holy Spirit, not the other way around. You cannot be saved apart from the Holy Spirit.

If this is true(the latter part, that is), how can a non-Christian be saved during the tribulation, anti-Christ, seeing as the Holy Spirit leaves the earth at that time(or am I wrong abt this?).  

[NatesSafford]

Only those who are saved have the Holy Spirit. Remember that God doesn't habitate with those who live in their sin. "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Romans 8:9). The one who lacks of the Holy Spirit, is not from God. Thus, the one who has the Holy Spirit, is from God. Praised be the Lord!
 

[Theopneustos]

Orizion

If this is true(the latter part, that is), how can a non-Christian be saved during the tribulation, anti-Christ, seeing as the Holy Spirit leaves the earth at that time(or am I wrong abt this?).

I'm not sure what view you hold in eschatology, but for the matter, I don't hold the view of Pre-Tribulation. I only hold onto the Post-Tribulation. I don't plan on getting into a discussion on eschatology, as it isn't one of my strongest points.

Those who are left are left only because they believed a lie instead of the truth, and so God sent strong delusions on them (2 Thess. 2:9-12). Yes, God handed them over to their own lusts (Rom. 1:25-27). People are radically corrupted.

Also, I hold onto a different view of soteriology than the rest of the Christian community. God will save only the elect. Of course, I will not be getting into this discussion either, since I am leaving.  

[Ricette]

I think that if you are saved and know it firmly in your heart you receive the Holy Spirit. But ifyou are not sure ofyour savedness then you don't fully haveit. Like, it is there but not in you, it is just waiting for acceptance. Not sure if that makes a lick of sense but its a thought.  

[Seority]

Cometh The Inquisitor

both sides have valid points, however, the entire debate is intrinsic upon whether or not humans have free will. If we do, the humans choose God and the Holy Spirit flows into us as a reaction to that choice. However, if we do not have free will, then the Holy Spirit is always in us, only waiting untill God sees fit to show itself.

really? i thought the HS was something you got when you were saved. but i guess you could still have it even if you didnt belive, you just can use it to do acts for God ^_^  

[Luthien_Shy]

I'm more inclined to believe that you recieve the holy spirit when you believe and are baptized.  

[Alchem_DeRogue]

Luthien_Shy

I'm more inclined to believe that you recieve the holy spirit when you believe and are baptized.

Well.....*takes very deep breath* Partly what she says is true, but accepting the will of God at any time, and following thepath upon righteousness also --I BELIEVE-- that gives you the Holy Spirit if yo know that the love for The Lord is true, and one more point the fact that calling God a HE or SHE will be innaticuate since God just is. The Lord does not take precise genderism upon his divine being, The Lord just is, that's why ppl usually Say God, or Lord, but that's another argument all-together..  

[Alumnus]

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