NEW MMO

What was the most important thing about zOMG?

Avatar ported in	21.1%	[ 133 ]
The creative rings	13.8%	[ 87 ]
The imaginative enemies	7.9%	[ 50 ]
Gaia community	25.9%	[ 163 ]
Browser-based	13.0%	[ 82 ]
Interactive NPCs	2.9%	[ 18 ]
Quest structure	7.1%	[ 45 ]
Story/Writing	8.3%	[ 52 ]
Total Votes:			[ 630 ]

[Felis Hircus]

Lord Enerjak

For right now, just to keep this afloat in the upcoming days:

Blue and White Christmas or Red and Green Christmas?
Antlers or Icicles?
Gingerbread or Peppermint?
Coal or Krampus?

And yes, these are all important. wink

While both themes sound good I think you should start with something warm and Christmasy. Maybe try a Frozeny one next year! 4laugh So with that in mind

Red and Green Christmas!
Antlers!
Gingerbread!
Coal!

[Bare Butt Belial]

I only played for Gaia Gold... without this it's pointless. I'll keep playing Ragnarok and Ragnarok 2 as I have for years. Who know what gaia will do in the future.

[Red Kutai]

Felis Hircus

I think you should start with something warm and Christmasy.

Well, then I'll have a blue Christmas without you. talk2hand

redface

[phoenix of the damned]

Lord Enerjak

Blue and White Christmas or Red and Green Christmas? Both
Antlers or Icicles? Both
Gingerbread or Peppermint? Both
Coal or Krampus? What?

[Taihe]

Lord Enerjak

Blue and White Christmas or Red and Green Christmas?
Antlers or Icicles?
Gingerbread or Peppermint?
Coal or Krampus?

I like blue and white but red and green is probably more traditional or something
Uh. Antlers? idk. I guess ice would work better with blue/white theme though
Gingerbread
cat_question

[Felis Hircus]

Red Kutai

Felis Hircus

I think you should start with something warm and Christmasy.

Well, then I'll have a blue Christmas without you. talk2hand

redface

We can't handle cryostasis the way you can, Mr.frog! talk2hand

[Felis Hircus]

Let's have some discussion to keep things going, shall we? 4laugh We've had plenty of people highlight zOMG!'s strengths. Let's instead discuss its weaknesses and possible solutions to them.

Let's start with the problems of its hallmark - the flexible ring system. As noticed in previous posts. While having a flexible class system was one of the best parts about the game, it was also not the most balanced part of the game which meant that people would simply stick to a certain set of rings that they found most efficient and worse still, enforce them upon other users thereby negating the point of such a system.

Let's start with attack rings. While the point of ranged rings was to be able to do damage without receiving any in return, the biggest issue with them has always been the stam cost which is about as much as melee rings and since people tend to heal well/ kiting and attacking is near impossible/ someone tanks, they are near useless compared to melee rings.

Possible solutions?:
1. Reduce the stam cost of ranged rings. Possible ramifications? Soloing on the overworld becomes a heck of a lot easier.
2. Better kiting system (the ability to attack while moving?)
3. Create some kind of synergy amongst the rings so not everyone brings the exact same rings and people can now bring their fav shark/hornet/solar rings to dms.(for example, use a solar rays to blind a unit thereby granting an accuracy buff which is triggered by other team mate's attacks doing bonus damage)

Gataka

Red Kutai

Anyone else who wants to join

[A Random Act of Terror]

To figure out why ranged rings suck, you need to look at the broader game as a whole:

The map sizes (as in the space around your character on a given screen tile) are laughably small. So much so that the point of a "ranged ring" is negated when your enemy can just walk into range before you kill it / get a second hit in.

To give ranged rings a use, we need larger tile spaces. The crypt / Sealab Compound is a good example of what I mean. The players are smaller, but there is more space that you could put enemies that have ranged attacks (if they had been designed that way). The easter event is a good example of how ranged rings had a use (Eggs being put in places inaccessible to the player / attempts to snipe them from someone else)

Ranged rings tried to fill a niche that wasn't there. Couple that with the relatively low damage they did, they never had a use.

[Felis Hircus]

A Random Act of Terror

To figure out why ranged rings suck, you need to look at the broader game as a whole:

The map sizes (as in the space around your character on a given screen tile) are laughably small. So much so that the point of a "ranged ring" is negated when your enemy can just walk into range before you kill it / get a second hit in.

To give ranged rings a use, we need larger tile spaces. The crypt / Sealab Compound is a good example of what I mean. The players are smaller, but there is more space that you could put enemies that have ranged attacks (if they had been designed that way). The easter event is a good example of how ranged rings had a use (Eggs being put in places inaccessible to the player / attempts to snipe them from someone else)

Ranged rings tried to fill a niche that wasn't there. Couple that with the relatively low damage they did, they never had a use.

But the rings themselves don't have all that great a range so simply increasing the size of the field wouldn't help. The range of each ring would also have to be increased. And while that is one potential solution, I think it would do a lot more to hurt the game since one of the main draws of zOMG! is the ability to play with your Gaia avatar. Which would be far less appreciated the bigger the playing field/the smaller the avy. Which is precisely why they made more of the gameplay focused screens larger and the overworld(where more socializing may occur) smaller.

[A Random Act of Terror]

Felis Hircus

A Random Act of Terror

To figure out why ranged rings suck, you need to look at the broader game as a whole:

The map sizes (as in the space around your character on a given screen tile) are laughably small. So much so that the point of a "ranged ring" is negated when your enemy can just walk into range before you kill it / get a second hit in.

To give ranged rings a use, we need larger tile spaces. The crypt / Sealab Compound is a good example of what I mean. The players are smaller, but there is more space that you could put enemies that have ranged attacks (if they had been designed that way). The easter event is a good example of how ranged rings had a use (Eggs being put in places inaccessible to the player / attempts to snipe them from someone else)

Ranged rings tried to fill a niche that wasn't there. Couple that with the relatively low damage they did, they never had a use.

But the rings themselves don't have all that great a range so simply increasing the size of the field wouldn't help. The range of each ring would also have to be increased. And while that is one potential solution, I think it would do a lot more to hurt the game since one of the main draws of zOMG! is the ability to play with your Gaia avatar. Which would be far less appreciated the bigger the playing field/the smaller the avy. Which is precisely why they made more of the gameplay focused screens larger and the overworld(where more socializing may occur) smaller.

I can understand the socializing aspect. But outside of the nullchamber locations, entrances to instanced areas, and a few key areas, the rest of the tiles go relatively unused.

In instanced areas, you can get away with making the avatars smaller, assuming the boss area was designed well, you should be fighting, not socializing. Make key areas full-sized (Like the chest locations in SS) and make tiles between them (for example) half-sized. You could fit different levels (think the waterfall areas in Otami) onto the map. Increase the range on the ranged rings, and presto, you actually have a use for ranged rings again.

[Felis Hircus]

A Random Act of Terror

Felis Hircus

A Random Act of Terror

To figure out why ranged rings suck, you need to look at the broader game as a whole:

The map sizes (as in the space around your character on a given screen tile) are laughably small. So much so that the point of a "ranged ring" is negated when your enemy can just walk into range before you kill it / get a second hit in.

To give ranged rings a use, we need larger tile spaces. The crypt / Sealab Compound is a good example of what I mean. The players are smaller, but there is more space that you could put enemies that have ranged attacks (if they had been designed that way). The easter event is a good example of how ranged rings had a use (Eggs being put in places inaccessible to the player / attempts to snipe them from someone else)

Ranged rings tried to fill a niche that wasn't there. Couple that with the relatively low damage they did, they never had a use.

But the rings themselves don't have all that great a range so simply increasing the size of the field wouldn't help. The range of each ring would also have to be increased. And while that is one potential solution, I think it would do a lot more to hurt the game since one of the main draws of zOMG! is the ability to play with your Gaia avatar. Which would be far less appreciated the bigger the playing field/the smaller the avy. Which is precisely why they made more of the gameplay focused screens larger and the overworld(where more socializing may occur) smaller.

I can understand the socializing aspect. But outside of the nullchamber locations, entrances to instanced areas, and a few key areas, the rest of the tiles go relatively unused.

In instanced areas, you can get away with making the avatars smaller, assuming the boss area was designed well, you should be fighting, not socializing. Make key areas full-sized (Like the chest locations in SS) and make tiles between them (for example) half-sized. You could fit different levels (think the waterfall areas in Otami) onto the map. Increase the range on the ranged rings, and presto, you actually have a use for ranged rings again.

Well. It's not just about socializing, It's about being able to appreciate one's own avy. Which is important in any area. The only place where this would be less important is actually areas where you socialize(think Barton town)/team up(any instance) as more room has to be made to accommodate the extra players. And having the camera zoom in and out between screens would be an extra load on the game as well as produce headaches for the players involved. razz (Which is why you have short intervals/loading screens in between screens that change the camera zoom. O3O

[Pandora`]

What i love most is the boss fights in a party or even solo. Deadman's pass wasn't easy at all and i enjoyed that : >. But it was part of Gaia and making a game outside of Gaia..mm i don't know. There are already so many games better then zomg. I think i enjoyed zomg because it was part of Gaia.

[Red Kutai]

A Random Act of Terror

I can understand the socializing aspect. But outside of the nullchamber locations, entrances to instanced areas, and a few key areas, the rest of the tiles go relatively unused.

In instanced areas, you can get away with making the avatars smaller, assuming the boss area was designed well, you should be fighting, not socializing. Make key areas full-sized (Like the chest locations in SS) and make tiles between them (for example) half-sized. You could fit different levels (think the waterfall areas in Otami) onto the map. Increase the range on the ranged rings, and presto, you actually have a use for ranged rings again.

I don't think the scale of ranged rings is really the issue - just scaling up the distance doesn't seem like it would achieve much that can't be achieved at the current distance. The root issue is the significance of range, not the degree - the game doesn't force players to care where they're standing relative to an enemy, so changing precisely where that is wouldn't solve the problem. Quite a few of my old ring suggestions were attempts to address exactly that point, because I always felt the game was most fun that way - my old favourite build featured Fire Rain and Dervish as my attack suite, so manually positioning myself to maximise the effect of my AoEs was my primary focus.

A lot of the important changes here are - fortunately - environmental. Enemies, areas, rings; it's not core mechanics that need changing, just how they're being applied. Some suggestions:

• Environmental hazards and obstacles - Obviously if ranged attacks are the only way to hit an enemy, you're going to favour ranged attacks; but it doesn't end there. Even obstacles that simply extend the effective 'distance' to melee range (like a winding path or maze) or otherwise increase the cost (traps or pits that deal damage as you approach) make players reevaluate range, and can vary even from room to room.
  
• Enemies whose tactics differ at close and long range - Enemies whose attacks are more devastating up close encourage ranged attacks; enemies who are dangerous at range encourage melee. Enemies whose attacks are completely different styles (like something that uses AoE Fear at close range, then pings away at you as you run off) encourage you to find what works best for your build (and your crew's), and take advantage of those specific strengths.
  
• Rings with range-dependent effects - I've designed a handful of these myself, some of which I've shared openly. From as simple as dealing bonus damage within melee range (Tomahawk, I think it was) to scaling knockback inversely based on current distance (essentially knocking them back to a set distance, a la Lance). Others include rings that knock you toward the target (moving you into melee from range, or through them and away from melee), effects that encourage or require constant movement (my Static and These Boots rings), or even explicitly dealing more damage from further away (my design for a Sagittarius 'Summon Ring'). Some more melee-range support rings would be nice too, like a Lay on Hands healing effect.
  
• Non-instantaneous area effects - All current area effects only check on activation; caring where I am beyond that instant would make it a great deal more interactive. My preferred fix for Divinity (and probably some other buffs as well) was to establish a constant AoE surrounding the user, encouraging allies to stick close (or to dart back during times of trouble to kneel in the presence of your Divinity wink ), and Quicksand creating a fixed debuff zone centered around the target would make a lot of sense as well. Once again, anything that makes you regularly reevaluate your position relative to your enemies will make the options supplied by additional range much more meaningful. 3nodding
  

[phoenix of the damned]

Red Kutai

A Random Act of Terror

I can understand the socializing aspect. But outside of the nullchamber locations, entrances to instanced areas, and a few key areas, the rest of the tiles go relatively unused.

In instanced areas, you can get away with making the avatars smaller, assuming the boss area was designed well, you should be fighting, not socializing. Make key areas full-sized (Like the chest locations in SS) and make tiles between them (for example) half-sized. You could fit different levels (think the waterfall areas in Otami) onto the map. Increase the range on the ranged rings, and presto, you actually have a use for ranged rings again.

I don't think the scale of ranged rings is really the issue - just scaling up the distance doesn't seem like it would achieve much that can't be achieved at the current distance. The root issue is the significance of range, not the degree - the game doesn't force players to care where they're standing relative to an enemy, so changing precisely where that is wouldn't solve the problem.

On the contrary, I would like to present GR, HPR, Crypt, BL, and the direction a tank/kite is facing. So yeah, where you're standing does matter.

Red Kutai

Quite a few of my old ring suggestions were attempts to address exactly that point, because I always felt the game was most fun that way - my old favorite build featured Fire Rain and Dervish as my attack suite, so manually positioning myself to maximize the effect of my AoEs was my primary focus.

A lot of the important changes here are - fortunately - environmental. Enemies, areas, rings; it's not core mechanics that need changing, just how they're being applied. Some suggestions:

• Environmental hazards and obstacles - Obviously if ranged attacks are the only way to hit an enemy, you're going to favor ranged attacks; but it doesn't end there. Even obstacles that simply extend the effective 'distance' to melee range (like a winding path or maze) or otherwise increase the cost (traps or pits that deal damage as you approach) make players reevaluate range, and can vary even from room to room.
  
• Enemies whose tactics differ at close and long range - Enemies whose attacks are more devastating up close encourage ranged attacks encourage better kites; enemies who are dangerous at range encourage melee encourage better kites.

Fix'd

Red Kutai

Enemies whose attacks are completely different styles (like something that uses AoE Fear at close range, then pings away at you as you run off) encourage you to find what works best for your build (and your crew's), and take advantage of those specific strengths.

Iron will. //ignore fear. gg

Red Kutai

Rings with range-dependent effects - I've designed a handful of these myself, some of which I've shared openly. From as simple as dealing bonus damage within melee range (Tomahawk, I think it was) to scaling knockback inversely based on current distance (essentially knocking them back to a set distance, a la Lance). Others include rings that knock you toward the target (moving you into melee from range, or through them and away from melee), effects that encourage or require constant movement (my Static and These Boots rings), or even explicitly dealing more damage from further away (my design for a Sagittarius 'Summon Ring'). Some more melee-range support rings would be nice too, like a Lay on Hands healing effect.

I like the ideas here, but they seem more "solo-y"? We already have bump and shark and dervish for knockback and as we've seen already, knockback doesn't really do much. You would need a major knockback with like... really good damage.

Red Kutai

Non-instantaneous area effects - All current area effects only check on activation; caring where I am beyond that instant would make it a great deal more interactive. My preferred fix for Divinity (and probably some other buffs as well) was to establish a constant AoE surrounding the user, encouraging allies to stick close (or to dart back during times of trouble to kneel in the presence of your Divinity wink ), and Quicksand creating a fixed debuff zone centered around the target would make a lot of sense as well. Once again, anything that makes you regularly reevaluate your position relative to your enemies will make the options supplied by additional range much more meaningful. 3nodding

Except that when the kite uses quicksand on enemies, they're still aggro on the kite and DPS just melees them. Pls don't suggest something like "the mobs attack whoever's closer" cuz then you just get this really dumb easy game where you run in circles and nothing ever hits you and then 5 people except the guy running in circles with all the mobs just uses ranged s**t to kill stuff and melee wouldn't exist.

[Lord Enerjak]

Thank you all for contributing so much over my short vacation. The team members and I were glad to spend time with our families and relax-- for at least two of us, it was an opportunity to step down from the hard push through finals.

Teammate Nick, one of our programmers, recently got results back from his Ludum Dare submission and all he's letting us know is that he's in the top 500 submissions, but he's heard an overwhelmingly positive consensus on his game's creativity and playability. He's now back to full functionality on the team and coding up the basic level designs (drops, spawns, etc) for us right now.

Six days into the new year, and we're now getting our preliminary designs finalized. I can't wait to share that with you soon!