integrity

What's the best solution?

Sell Integrity in CS for 249	37.5%	[ 3 ]
Make it a rare drop in dms	50.0%	[ 4 ]
Something else (post)	12.5%	[ 1 ]
Total Votes:			[ 8 ]

[Mage The Red]

wreaks_havoc

Brooklyn Rage Mage

Even if you didn't actually gain anything from Ring Farming at the time, it was still a glitch.

Please explain what my "personal gain" was.

If you had truly read what I said, you'd notice that I never implied that you received personal gain.

[A Random Act of Terror]

Brooklyn Rage Mage

wreaks_havoc

Brooklyn Rage Mage

Even if you didn't actually gain anything from Ring Farming at the time, it was still a glitch.

Please explain what my "personal gain" was.

If you had truly read what I said, you'd notice that I never implied that you received personal gain.

or, alternatively, you can read back a page and find out what that personal gain was.


even if you never noticed it, it was there, and it extended not just to meat, but to all rings you had above CL10

[Red Kutai]

Random Acts of Awesome

well, at this time i only actually recall that one quote i posted (it was during school year, so if more was said at dev meats, i missed them)

I had a particular interest in the subject, as I was curious to see how the developers would respond to such a glitch. The reason I recall so clearly is that [ JK ]'s statements were in very stark contrast to how I would expect the situation to be handled, but considering his position, I was obliged to adhere to his choices. sweatdrop

Quote:

I however found the whole ordeal quite comical, and would love to see the original integrities/abuses returned to their original names (what an ordeal that would be for whoever has to sift through all of them) then implement your idea to all rings earned after september 20th (which, shockingly is my birthday)

It is "comical" in that it was a completely absurd response to the situation, I suppose; but being absurd is hardly a goal that one should be aiming to achieve, in terms of public relations. whee

Quote:

as far as i know, self-raging isn't a glitch, and bron stated that the issue with meat would remain, as a now intended feature.

Incorrect on both counts, I'm afraid. Both brands of 'self-raging' derive from glitches in the system, and undermine the basic Rage system. And bronstahd made no such statement - he admitted that it is broken, and simply said that it was not a glitch they would consider punishable.

Quote:

and actually, users obtained higher CL (practically speaking, its useless unless someone went into BB-full and suppressed to CL11)

and actually, if you look at any CL11+ rings, they do act as a CL10.001 (random number) ring when suppressed to CL10 (most obvious with meat, at RR1 it buffs to 401, instead of 400), which is a benefit, although a tiny one.

Yes, I suppose those are benefits (and the latter seems like a glitch in its own right). But they are not benefits that anyone was - as far as I know - making any intentional or practical abuse of, especially considering just how irrelevant those are. Simply, though, having the opportunity to abuse the game is not the same as actually abusing it - unless they restricted their scope to those who had actually taken advantage of those differences, calling 'abuse' was not a fair assessment...

[wreaks_havoc]

Actually, there was again to those glitched rings. It was the orbs one got when they were salvaged. However, the people that did that and actually did gain from having the rings were given an integrity ring.

@Mage - I did read what you posted. My point is that in order to exploit a glitch there must be personal gain.

[Jedly Deadly]

I don't see why people got upset to begin with. People care far too much.

[MistressMinako]

I still think they should release Integrity to everyone. The Abuse ring is now Kamila's Curse, and a loot drop. The punishment is null and void. The rings never quite conveyed their intended message and I think the message that came across was ill-received and further fractured the zOMG community.

[RafiCat]

Red Kutai

Random Acts of Awesome

And JK's post (IIRC) was rather neutral on the subject, i believe he said they weren't bothering anyone at the moment and that was the extent of it. and they weren't, but the issue of people misusing the glitch should have been an obvious no-no

[ JK ]'s statements were anything but neutral, to be fair. He legitimately believed the glitch was harmless, and it made no difference to him whether people were farming them or not. The simple fact is, the rings weren't used to break the game, and the process of removing them would likely be the same no matter the quantity - he simply didn't see how it would make a difference, one way or another. [ JK ] did, well-and-truly, give players permission to utilise the glitch - "you can farm them" (a direct quote that I've had trouble locating, since) is rather hard to misunderstand. sweatdrop

I think the later overreaction came largely from a misunderstanding of intent - that is, it was believed that those players were trying to break the game, namely to get a 'head start' on future content (like DMS). For the majority of players I've encountered, that was not the case - those who actually understood that it was an unintended feature almost universally expected the rings to be removed (or de-leveled) in short order, and those who did not understand that had no suspicion they were doing anything wrong. The perceived crisis of swarms of players trying to abuse the game for their own benefit - the crisis to which the rings were intended to respond - simply didn't ever exist.

----

I'd personally like to see Integrity renamed to something less morally-charged - I'd suggest something along the lines of "Gaia's Blessing," as a counter to "Kamila's Curse". Additionally, I'd like to see developers given the ability to grant the ring at-will - primarily to be distributed at spawns and meets, as a sort of community reward. Essentially, as was originally intended, use it as a sign of Gaia's favour - when you do something that Gaia (that is, the devs) appreciate, the ring is an indicator thereof. This retains the best parts of the ring's original intent, while abandoning most of the negative connotations that affected its initial release...

I'd like to see them renamed also!Rrenaming both rings was suggested months ago. I think Marshall's Blessing was suggested,and Kamila's Curse.

And I thought it was pretty clear that the rings were going to ultimately be deleted, so I don't think any one thought having them would give them a headstart on the new area. 3nodding

[RafiCat]

I apologize - I didn't realize people would get all heated up again over this. I merely wanted to state my opinion. I wish they would rename the rings and make Integrity available in some way to anyone.

[Starshine]

Swarf said that the integrity ring won't ever be sold in pet's last user run meat.

So I have an alternative solution, fix Alastor's quest and hand it out as a quest chain reward.

Oh and I abuse armor rings, meat ring, bandage and diagnose for self rage purposes, you can give me an abuse ring! I need it to complete my set.

[Red Kutai]

Starshine

Oh and I abuse armor rings, meat ring, bandage and diagnose for self rage purposes, you can give me an abuse ring! I need it to complete my set.

I was worried that I might've been unclear about that; for the sake of clarity, I was not intending to imply that it was reasonable to punish players for utilising 'self-rage' glitches et al, but rather to see that it is even less reasonable to have punished players for utilising even less significant glitches. I do feel that one cannot punish one and not the other justly, but I don't believe that punishing either would be truly appropriate in this instance.

And while I recognise that you likely didn't misunderstand that yourself, doubtless someone would, at some point... sweatdrop

[Berryfarmer]

For anyone still debating this topic may I refer them to a topic that beat the debate like a dead horse.
Dead horse

Personally, I was not allowed into many crews of former friends because when they ring farmed I adamantly refused to join, for me Integrity means what it says. Integrity of not giving into peer pressure.

[Starshine]

Red Kutai

Starshine

Oh and I abuse armor rings, meat ring, bandage and diagnose for self rage purposes, you can give me an abuse ring! I need it to complete my set.

I was worried that I might've been unclear about that; for the sake of clarity, I was not intending to imply that it was reasonable to punish players for utilising 'self-rage' glitches et al, but rather to see that it is even less reasonable to have punished players for utilising even less significant glitches. I do feel that one cannot punish one and not the other justly, but I don't believe that punishing either would be truly appropriate in this instance.

And while I recognise that you likely didn't misunderstand that yourself, doubtless someone would, at some point... sweatdrop

Don't mind me, I enjoy stirring the pot every now and again wink

[Red Kutai]

Berryfarmer

For anyone still debating this topic may I refer them to a topic that beat the debate like a dead horse.
Dead horse

Personally, I was not allowed into many crews of former friends because when they ring farmed I adamantly refused to join, for me Integrity means what it says. Integrity of not giving into peer pressure.

You're free to consider this a horse of a different colour, but didn't you just today express the sentiment that "helpful glitches" really aren't so bad? Being that those glitches have vastly more impact on actual gameplay, and are much more widely used among our 'peers', wouldn't those glitches be significantly better indicators of one's integrity?

Now, to be clear, I don't doubt your personal integrity in the least - I've seen more than enough evidence of that, elsewhere. My only qualm is with the premise that that ring serves as any sort of indicator thereof, which I firmly believe not to be the case... sweatdrop

[Berryfarmer]

Red Kutai

Berryfarmer

For anyone still debating this topic may I refer them to a topic that beat the debate like a dead horse.
Dead horse

Personally, I was not allowed into many crews of former friends because when they ring farmed I adamantly refused to join, for me Integrity means what it says. Integrity of not giving into peer pressure.

You're free to consider this a horse of a different colour, but didn't you just today express the sentiment that "helpful glitches" really aren't so bad? Being that those glitches have vastly more impact on actual gameplay, and are much more widely used among our 'peers', wouldn't those glitches be significantly better indicators of one's integrity?

Now, to be clear, I don't doubt your personal integrity in the least - I've seen more than enough evidence of that, elsewhere. My only qualm is with the premise that that ring serves as any sort of indicator thereof, which I firmly believe not to be the case... sweatdrop

I was putting it out as a reference for anyone who cares to continue debating. Since it was done to exhaustion while wounds of it were fresh. I was also sharing a bit of my personal experience on the matter of glitched rings.

Didn't expect to get pulled into a full blown debate but wanted to give people debating some reference material. Sorry if I seemed confrontational to anyone. sweatdrop

[Easley Lighthalzen]

Quote:

I was surprised to find out people are still bothered by the whole abuse/integrity thing.

It's the MOST UNFAIR CRAP zOMG! threw to their loyal players.
Even I have not yet moved on.
And I still upset and wants to RAGEQUIT whenever I remember this.