I Hate Aggro: A Mini-Guide

[OMFG Taylor]

Yo.

There seems to be a lot of confusion among players about how hate and aggro work. Over the course of many, many SS runs, HotRed_Streak and I have attempted to determine the best ways to balance aggro between a Healer and another crewmate (a Tank?). As a result, we have spent a great deal of time studying how zOMG's aggro and hate system works. This guide isn't aimed at the average user - it's pretty in depth, and deals with mechanics that most players are happy to ignore. But if the inner workings of hate and aggro pique your interest, read on.

Keep in mind that this guide is somewhat of a work in progress. The concepts aren't exactly easy to explain, so let us know if something doesn't make sense.


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Key Term Definitions:

Aggro/Hate Management System: System that uses hate values to determine which player an animated is aggro'd to.

Hate List: Each animated keeps its own list of players it hates, and ranks them based on how much hate they've generated.

Hate: Points that keeps track of how much damage, healing, and CC a player has done.
1 damage to an animated = 1 hate
1hp healed of a player an animated hates = .5 hate

Agrro: A state of being targeted and attacked by one or more animated. Occurs when a player has more hate points than any other player on an animated's hate list. An animated can only be aggro'd to one player at a time.


Tanking: Holding aggro and absorbing the majority of the damage for your crew. Benefits include a healer being able to focus healing on one person, and the crew having more stamina for attacks.

Sweeping: Dealing a high amount of damage in a short time. Damage alone is usually insufficient to hold aggro, so it is different than tanking, though they are often confused.

For an explanation on how we tested hate values, read this post.

[OMFG Taylor]

In-depth Explanation of How Hate and Aggro Work Together:

Every animated keeps track of hate individually. For an animated to hate you, you have to be added to its hate list. There are four ways to do that:

Line of Site:
Walking into an animated's line of sight (usually an area in front of the animated) will automatically add you to its hate list with 1 hate, and the animated will start attacking you. In layman's terms, the animated will "see" you. Only the first person to enter an animated's line of sight is added to its hate list. If that person de-aggros by dazing or leaving the area, the animated's line of sight aggro resets and can be triggered again. Note that this only applies to aggressive animated; some animated (Cherry Fluffs, for example) do not attack on sight.

Damage:
Attacking an animated will add you to its hate list. For every 1 damage you deal to an animated, that animated adds 1 hate point against you to its list.

Healing:
If you heal any player (including yourself), you will be added to the hate lists of every animated that hates the player you healed. For every 1hp you heal, you generate .5 hate for each animated that hates that player. If you heal people that aren't on an animated's hate list, you won't generate any hate.

• Ex: Two Brain Clams hate Player 1. Player 2 heals Player 1 for 100hp. The two Brain Clams now both hate Player 2 for 50 hate each.
  
• Ex: One Brain Clam hates two players. A third player heals those two players for 100 health each. The Brain Clam now hates the third player for 100 hate.

Crowd Control:
Crowd control rings have set hate values based on CL. Unlike healing and damage, crowd control rings generate the same hate every time they are used, regardless of the rage rank they are used at. Some crowd control rings may not generate any hate when used on animated that con purple.

CL 10.0 Quicksand: 320 hate
CL 10.0 Scaredy Cat: 0 hate
CL 10.0 Duct Tape: 220 hate
CL 10.0 Gumshoe: 50 hate

The Taunt Ring!:
Taunt is really, really bad. It's scaling is broken, so it might be kind of effective at CL 1.0, but any higher, and it's a complete joke. Never, ever use it (until it's fixed). Also, keep in mind that if you use it on an animated that cons purple, it will only generate 1 hate. Here are the CL 10.0 values.

CL 10.0 RR1 Taunt: 40 hate
CL 10.0 RR2 Taunt: 60 hate
CL 10.0 RR3 Taunt: 80 hate
CL 10.0 RR4 Taunt: 110 hate

Read This:
Now, just to make sure I say it loud and clear, here's the most important piece of information: each animated will look at the players on their hate list, and choose to attack the player who has generated the most hate. This is an individual process that each animated goes through independently.


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It is easiest to visualize like this:

example

Brain Clam 1's Hate List:

Player 1

Walked into Line of Sight: 1 hate points
Damage: 100 + 50 + 100 = 250 hate points
Healing: 250 = 125 hate points
CC: None = 0 hate points

Total: 376 hate points

An animated may have multiple players on its hate list, but whoever has the most hate is the player the animated will be aggro'd towards and attack.

example

Brain Clam 2's Hate List:

Player 1
Total: 375 hate points

Player 2
Total: 200 hate points

Player 1 is the player with aggro (being attacked), since he has the most hate.

[OMFG Taylor]

Aggro Exceptions/Quirks/STUFF You Should Know:

Animated do not like attacking players who have been affected by root or sleep, and they will avoid doing so if they have other options.

Two players ([ JK ] and Lanzer) are fighting a Barnacle Fluff and a Brain Clam:

example

Barnacle Fluff's Hate List:

[ JK ]: 100 hate
Lanzer: 50 hate


Brain Clam's Hate List:

[ JK ]: 100 hate
Lanzer: 50 hate

[ JK ] obviously has aggro from both animated. However, if [ JK ] is rooted by the Barnacle Fluff, all animated will temporarily ignore [ JK ], as though he is invisible. Lanzer is the only other person on either animated's hate list, so Lanzer gets attacked.

If Lanzer gets rooted while [ JK ] is rooted, suddenly the hate system returns to 'normal'. [ JK ] has more hate than Lanzer, so both animated begin to attack [ JK ] again.The animated will keep this activity up: when one player becomes unrooted, they will aggro at them. If both players become rooted or unrooted, they will attack the one with the most hate.

________________


If a player dazes, their hate is automatically reset to 0.

[HotRed_Streak]

Generating Hate:

All numbers given are based on CL 10.0 rings. The numbers given for Diagnose and Wish are based off an average value healed, though each rage rank has a possible healing range that varies with use. See this guide for more information on ring numbers.

The rings that generate the most hate are:

Sand: 320 hate points
This ring has a good AoE, even at rr1, which means you will be able to hit many animated at once with it. Since it is a Crowd Control ring, the hate is not affected by rage rank, meaning you will get the maximum benefit from using this ring rr1. With 320 hate points per animated, it's the about the equivalent of rr4 Hack AoE on an entire mob. Watch out though. Using this ring can get you in deep trouble if you're not careful. Luckily the rooting ability allows you to run out of attack range of the animated you've aggroed.

Diagnose:
rr1: ~60 hate points per person healed (~360 possible)
rr4: ~150 hate points per person healed (~900 possible)

This ring has an AoE healing. The thing about AoE healing is... you get hate points for each person you heal on an animated's hate list. So if you add up the total damage healed from your single rr1 Diagnose, it's a lot more than it would seem at first glance.

Wish (rr2+):
rr2: ~110 hate points per person healed (~550 possible)
rr4: ~190 hate points per person healed (~950 possible)

With a little rage, this ring becomes AoE healing as well. Though it won't heal you, it is much more powerful than Diagnose, so the fact that you're healing one less person won't impact your hate. Remember that people are usually on more than one animated's hate list, so by healing, you will be gaining a large amount of hate from many animated, not just one.

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Rings you think generate hate, but don't:

Taunt: It sux.

rr1: sux (40 hate points)
rr2: sux (60 hate points)
rr3: sux (80 hate points)
rr4 110 hate points (sux too)

Heavy Water Balloon: +0 hate points
HWB's description claims that rage will give you bonus hate points. An rr4 CL 10.0 HWB generates exactly as many hate points as damage done. There is no bonus hate. (Still a nice AoE, but no more effective than any of the rest of them.)

[HotRed_Streak]

Getting Aggro:

Healing, hands down, is the single best way to garner large amounts of hate.

Damage is a relatively poor way to get aggro, though you might not think so. AoE attacking in particular is a poor choice, because though an enormous amount of damage is done, it is spread out, and will not enable anyone to amass a large amount of hate per animated. Remember, a single attacker must gain more hate than a healer on a single animated's list, in order to get aggro. The best way to do this is with melee attacks that deal high damage to a single target. The problem with this, obviously, is that when mobbing, there are more animated than attackers, and melee attacks are single target. The healer will continue to hold aggro for the majority of the animated.

To demonstrate the inefficiency of AoE attacks compared to healing:

Assume that a mob had 15 animated. Five rr4 Fire Rains have a staggering combined damage of 18,000, or 1,200 damage per animated. (Assume for the sake of the argument that the animated have 2k HP each.) All of this damage is outweighed by the 600 HP healed by one rr1 Diagnose for 300 hate points.

Playing it out further (if you actually want the long-winded play-by-play example):

With 15 animated attacking, the Healer will start self-healing. rr4 Bandage is probably their best choice at this point (500 HP healed for 250 hate points). Remember, the Healer is on every animated's hate list. This means all 15 animated will add +250 hate points against the Healer to their list. Now each animated hates the Healer 550 hate points, and everyone else 240 hate points.

If an Attacker used rr1 Hack + rr1 Mantis + rr1 Slash on a single target (approximately 380 damage total), they will have a total of 620 hate points. However, even if all 5 attackers chose a single target and took aggro back from the Healer, that leaves 10 animated doing damage to the Healer.

As the Healer continues to heal themselves, they gain more aggro from all 15 animated. If the Healer heals anyone else, that's even more aggro. This is why healing is the single most effective way to hold aggro.



Holding Aggro:

The problem with getting so much hate is the staying alive part. A dead tank is no tank. If you can't hold the aggro after you get it, whether because someone else steals it, or because you daze, you aren't tanking.

Sand is the only good option other than healing for holding aggro. At 320 hate per animated per use, it's just enough to override most rr1 Diagnoses, since in actuality, you rarely end up healing everyone a full 120 HP per Diagnose.

Sand's strategy is a bit tricky to get down at first, but incredibly useful. Sanding is best done with two people. Because Sand has range, and AoE, proper Sanding potentially allows two people to hold aggro for an entire mob without taking damage. Because those two people hold aggro, the rest of the crew can attack in the middle of a mob without taking damage.

Sanding requires full rage Iron Will, or high rage ranks. High rage ranks are wasteful, since they do not increase the amount of hate. Take Iron Will.

When you pull your mob, try to keep it closely packed and aim for the middle. Sand has a decent AoE, but if the mob gets spread out, it's difficult to get it back together without running into attack range. If you're mobbing in SS, you are mostly likely to get rooted at this point. Chances of dazing will skyrocket.

Once the mobbed is rooted in place, the second person should wait a second, and then Sand the mob again. This should continue back and forth between the two Sanders, so that Sand overlaps. This way they build more hate so that the rest of the crew doesn't begin to take damage, and also prevents the mob from moving to attack the Sanders. Getting the timing down can be a bit tricky at first, but you should get better at it with practice, like everything else.

If the people Sanding wish to attack, HWB or raged Hot Foot are the best. Wish is advised for reaching crew members without walking into the mob's attack range, and Bandage and Meat for yourself, in case you do take damage.

[OMFG Taylor]

Reserved

White List
HotRed_Streak

Black List
OMFG Taylor cry

[HotRed_Streak]

Reserved

[Fr33d0m4ever]

You need to more thoroughly test taunt~ *cough*

How come 5 ticks of 16 health bandage didn't get agro away from the taunter hmm?~

(Also, Taylor... may I suggest you make a thread or have a spot somewhere organizing all your threads?~)

[OMFG Taylor]

Fr33d0m4ever

You need to more thoroughly test taunt~ *cough*

How come 5 ticks of 16 health bandage didn't get agro away from the taunter hmm?~

(Also, Taylor... may I suggest you make a thread or have a spot somewhere organizing all your threads?~)

Because 5*16 = 80hp. That means 40 hate. RR1 Taunt generates 40 hate. You'd need to generate 41 hate to steal aggro.

(Maybe on my profile? =o)

[HotRed_Streak]

Fr33d0m4ever

You need to more thoroughly test taunt~ *cough*

How come 5 ticks of 16 health bandage didn't get agro away from the taunter hmm?~

(Also, Taylor... may I suggest you make a thread or have a spot somewhere organizing all your threads?~)

I have all his threads organized. They are listed in my guide? I guess he could make a journal entry.

And... because you need 42 hate points. Obviously.

1 hate points from line of sight aggro. 1 hate point to switch to attacking the healer. razz

Edit: Too slow. crying

[Fr33d0m4ever]

Then why does 4 ticks of 20 hp bandage steal aggro?~

Edit: 19 >>;;

[Valheita]

I shall add this to the mini guide section of my guide, unless you have a complaint :3

[Dalia Royce]

Is it really a quirk when the developers specifically programmed the animated not to attack those with status debuffs several months ago? They did that after we noticed that the debuffs (Witch Doctors) were useless because the other animated free the trapped within seconds.

[OMFG Taylor]

HotRed_Streak

Fr33d0m4ever

You need to more thoroughly test taunt~ *cough*

How come 5 ticks of 16 health bandage didn't get agro away from the taunter hmm?~

(Also, Taylor... may I suggest you make a thread or have a spot somewhere organizing all your threads?~)

I have all his threads organized. They are listed in my guide? I guess he could make a journal entry.

And... because you need 42 hate points. Obviously.

1 hate points from line of sight aggro. 1 hate point to switch to attacking the healer. razz

Edit: Too slow. crying

It's not always going to be 42. You only generate line-of-site aggro if the animated sees you first. If you attack it before it sees you, you won't generate line of site aggro.

[OMFG Taylor]

Natsumi Kawahama

Is it really a quirk when the developers specifically programmed the animated not to attack those with status debuffs several months ago? They did that after we noticed that the debuffs (Witch Doctors) were useless because the other animated free the trapped within seconds.

No, I guess it's not technically a quirk, but it's an exception to the usual rule.