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1 series BMW 6speed transmission heated seats and a v6 engine with supercharger.
Sasaki Kojirou
HOW CAN YOU HATE TUNERS?!

I love the fact that my 1.3L 13bT can destroy just about any V8. BAWHAWHAWHAWHAW.

Not to mention the fact that my car alone weighs the same amount as an American engine. rofl

Naw seriously though I know the new Chargers have a curb weight of like 5k. That's CRAZY. I could never drive a car that heavy. My car has a curb weight of 2.7k


Actually, they have a curb weight of 3.7k for the v6, and 4.1k for the V8 SRT8.

Of course, it's pushing over 400bhp, which gets that weight moving in a hurry.

Now as far as "destroying any V8's" go.. It really depends on the car and the driver. A lot of the classic muscle cars weigh around 3200lbs, some even skimming your 2.7k. Add that to massive low end-torque, and handling kits that hit 1.1g on the skidpad.. I'd like to see you destroy those.
1988 Mercedes-Benz SL 560 convertible. 5.6L V8 engine with 238 horsepower. It's a really nice car, and it's only real drawback is that the soft-top is 100% manual.
Twistex
Actually, they have a curb weight of 3.7k for the v6, and 4.1k for the V8 SRT8.

Of course, it's pushing over 400bhp, which gets that weight moving in a hurry.

Now as far as "destroying any V8's" go.. It really depends on the car and the driver. A lot of the classic muscle cars weigh around 3200lbs, some even skimming your 2.7k. Add that to massive low end-torque, and handling kits that hit 1.1g on the skidpad.. I'd like to see you destroy those.

Typically speaking, the small wheelbases and much, much stiffer chassis rigidity of tuners give them an obvious advantage on tighter roads with consecutive turns and mild undulations.
Amon_Babii
Twistex
Actually, they have a curb weight of 3.7k for the v6, and 4.1k for the V8 SRT8.

Of course, it's pushing over 400bhp, which gets that weight moving in a hurry.

Now as far as "destroying any V8's" go.. It really depends on the car and the driver. A lot of the classic muscle cars weigh around 3200lbs, some even skimming your 2.7k. Add that to massive low end-torque, and handling kits that hit 1.1g on the skidpad.. I'd like to see you destroy those.

Typically speaking, the small wheelbases and much, much stiffer chassis rigidity of tuners give them an obvious advantage on tighter roads with consecutive turns and mild undulations.


This is an age-old conflict between the two not-so-disparate groups.

The muscle car crowd cries "Power!" and the Tuner crowd cries "handling!"..

"Tuner" cars tend to be much lighter, with stiffer chassis, and predictable, sharp handling.

Which is a definite bonus in their favor. Then, the big blocks develop loads of low end torque, and on the whole, are easier to tune and modify to develop big power. Handling compared to a good base "tuner" is a definite attack point, as the 40+ year old suspensions, frames and general chassis construction are getting quite old, and weren't stiff enough to begin with. Plus, they tend to be a bit on the hefty side.

However, it is fully possible to stiffen the chassis and suspension on classic muscle as well. Some old problems are easily overcome with some sway bars, a reinforcement kit, new shocks and springs, and if taken to the professional courses, a nice stiff body cage and rail reinforcement. To drop weight, you ditch some extras (AC/Heat, rear seats, spare/toolkit, radio.. etc) and use lightweight body components (composite or fibreglass panels, hoods, etc.) And suddenly, that lard-a** muscle car is just as light as you could want.

Then, it comes down to driving style. A hell of a lot of tuners suffer understeer when power is increased, and a hell of a lot of muscle cars are going to oversteer like crazy. Front wheel drive cars hit this handling limit much faster, due to friction limits. You can only apply so much rotational force to a patch of rubber, and setting the duties of handling, braking, and accelerating all on the shoulders of those two patches...

In the end, it comes down to how much you put into the car. The more money you can pour in, the better you can make pretty much any car. You'll still hit theoretical limits, and in the end, a fully-equipped muscle will be outcornered by a fully-equipped "tuner". Of course, on any straights, a muscle will quickly gain back any lost ground, or achieve a farther lead. From there on out, it's all about who's the better driver.
Yeah, I understand what you mean 100%. Unfortunately, the consumer market and their critics will always be evaluating cars in their factory form ('out of the box', so to speak). For example, the 2009 GT-R is widely accepted as dethroning the C6 Z06 as the top-performing, reasonably affordable supercar, but everybody knows that modifying the GT-R is next to impossible (particularly with its high dependence and operating principles built on its electronic devices), whereas the Z06 can be played around with very comfortably.
Amon_Babii
Yeah, I understand what you mean 100%. Unfortunately, the consumer market and their critics will always be evaluating cars in their factory form ('out of the box', so to speak). For example, the 2009 GT-R is widely accepted as dethroning the C6 Z06 as the top-performing, reasonably affordable supercar, but everybody knows that modifying the GT-R is next to impossible (particularly with its high dependence and operating principles built on its electronic devices), whereas the Z06 can be played around with very comfortably.


Aye.. The new GTR has more computing power than my damn laptop. biggrin
(Looks like a blast to drive though...)

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