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Sparkling Man-Lover

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Imogene_Agape_Weasley
why not eat a popsickle.


I like my icecream.

Snuggly Buddy

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David2074


HUH!?
How many cows do they usually kill to make a conventional ice cream cone?

I grew up on a dairy farm. Our cows were well treated and most lived long lives.
Weather permitting much of the year the roamed the pastures and enjoyed a pretty good life for a cow. They didn't hate being milked - they came in at milking time voluntarily.

The only way there would be fewer deaths is if we didn't breed them and raise the cows in the first place. And then they would also have never lived.


Um, my family also owned a dairy farm and I also saw the really distasteful parts of it. I saw cows collapse, and cows being kicked. I saw families torn apart.

Being milked got the milk intended for their calves out of their udders...obviously relieving pressure. Hooking them to machines that actually hurt their udders.

That would be ideal. If cows weren't raised for human use. Not bred at all.


Milking machines don't hurt cows udders.
In fact the modern ones take themselves off when the milk stops flowing.

If your family was kicking your cows and your family was being torn apart then that was a much for F'd up situation than our family dairy farm. I'm sorry for your negative experience.

Sparkling Man-Lover

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David2074

Milking machines don't hurt cows udders.
In fact the modern ones take themselves off when the milk stops flowing.

If your family was kicking your cows and your family was being torn apart then that was a much for F'd up situation than our family dairy farm. I'm sorry for your negative experience.


Regardless, the milk isn't ours to take.
You wouldn't remove a child from his mother's breasts so you could drink from them.

Workers kicked cows to have them moving along and even yelled at them. I saw cows and their offspring being separated. That's what I meant by families torn apart.

Snuggly Buddy

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David2074

Milking machines don't hurt cows udders.
In fact the modern ones take themselves off when the milk stops flowing.

If your family was kicking your cows and your family was being torn apart then that was a much for F'd up situation than our family dairy farm. I'm sorry for your negative experience.


Regardless, the milk isn't ours to take.
You wouldn't remove a child from his mother's breasts so you could drink from them.

Workers kicked cows to have them moving along and even yelled at them. I saw cows and their offspring being separated. That's what I meant by families torn apart.


Oh, I thought you meant your family. smile
Sometimes families disagree about how to run the family business.

I disagree about the milk but I respect your right to have a different opinion than mine.
If you lived on a dairy farm you know the average dairy cow is capable of producing much more milk than their calf can drink. Both our cows and our calves were well fed
But whatever. If vegan works for you then good for you.

Sparkling Man-Lover

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David2074


I disagree about the milk but I respect your right to have a different opinion than mine.
If you lived on a dairy farm you know the average dairy cow is capable of producing much more milk than their calf can drink. Both our cows and our calves were well fed
But whatever. If vegan works for you then good for you.


I am quite aware of how it works. My family on both sides have owned dairy farms for decades.


arrow Does that mean we are entitled to their milk?

arrow And were the calves sold as veal calves?

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David2074


I disagree about the milk but I respect your right to have a different opinion than mine.
If you lived on a dairy farm you know the average dairy cow is capable of producing much more milk than their calf can drink. Both our cows and our calves were well fed
But whatever. If vegan works for you then good for you.


I am quite aware of how it works. My family on both sides have owned dairy farms for decades.


arrow Does that mean we are entitled to their milk?

arrow And were the calves sold as veal calves?


IMO yes, there is no problem taking the milk.
In return they were fed and housed and given pretty good lives.
I think we have already established we disagree about this and repeating it back and forth is not likely to change that.

And no, our calves were not veal.
We did also raise beef cattle and I have no problem eating beef. You do. I get that.
I don't agree with it but I get that is your stance on the matter.

The original topic was about how Ben & Jerry's is going to make some vegan ice cream.
My point was this isn't exactly big news because there are already several kinds of vegan ice cream on the market. However, nice to have more choices and all that.

Dangerous Cat

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Young King under Heaven

Do you have a source for this claim?


Source.

Source.


You could try more reputable sources...like this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950929/

Which, incidentally, says the exact opposite.

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I really don't care ...

But ... eh ... good for the people who can't or won't eat ice cream. Now they can eat fake ice cream. I hope it tastes just as good.

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Aura_Tesla
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Aura_Tesla


This is great news, not only for vegans, but for those of us who are lactose-intolerant! I happen to be both so I am stoked. There are some dairy-free ice creams available already but not all of them are that good. More options are always helpful. I have been noticing more and more dairy-free and vegetarian options being offered in grocery stores. What about you guys?


I think this is great news for cows. I am of the idea that mammals needn't lactate past infancy, and honestly we humans are essentially lactose intolerant after being weaned. I think it's gross that adults still engage in inter-species lactation.
Aside from exploiting cows for their milk.


I agree completely. Whoever came up with the idea that humans need milk from another species to be healthy is well... crazy. The countries who eat the most dairy have the highest levels of osteoporosis. Also, the idea that milk build strong bones is a lie. Dairy is acidic. And when consumed, to compensate for the acid your body takes calcium OUT of your bones to neutralize the acid which makes bones weaker... Sad.

Do you have a source for this claim?


Yes.
Source 1
Source 2

Lord Elwrind's Queen

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David2074


I disagree about the milk but I respect your right to have a different opinion than mine.
If you lived on a dairy farm you know the average dairy cow is capable of producing much more milk than their calf can drink. Both our cows and our calves were well fed
But whatever. If vegan works for you then good for you.


I am quite aware of how it works. My family on both sides have owned dairy farms for decades.


There is a thing called "cow punching". Does not really hurt the cows if you do it right. Sometimes ya gotta get their attention so they will move to where you want them. Been done for ages. Bad mouthing them, however...
As for the calves, they are often taken and bottle fed at a certain age. Not all calves are sold for meat at a young age for veal.
It sounds like you had a raw deal. But really, it all depends on whether or not the owners and handlers have any respect or not. I have seen worse behavior that is really disturbing and the handlers involved got jail time for it. If a cow falls down, that is because they are sick. Mad cow disease maybe. Mastitis is also a problem and that would be a good reason to remove a calf (for their health in those cases). There is a bigger story behind that.
Either way, I won't argue with you about your choices. Mine is to have my milk and ice cream.

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David2074


HUH!?
How many cows do they usually kill to make a conventional ice cream cone?

I grew up on a dairy farm. Our cows were well treated and most lived long lives.
Weather permitting much of the year the roamed the pastures and enjoyed a pretty good life for a cow. They didn't hate being milked - they came in at milking time voluntarily.

The only way there would be fewer deaths is if we didn't breed them and raise the cows in the first place. And then they would also have never lived.


Um, my family also owned a dairy farm and I also saw the really distasteful parts of it. I saw cows collapse, and cows being kicked. I saw families torn apart.

Being milked got the milk intended for their calves out of their udders...obviously relieving pressure. Hooking them to machines that actually hurt their udders.

That would be ideal. If cows weren't raised for human use. Not bred at all.


Yes. It is so inefficient to try to get certain vitamins from dairy and meat when you can get the same vitamins through plants(B12 too). Its inefficient (for one reason) because of all the land it takes to raise food FOR the animals being raised. If we stopped breeding so many animals for food, we wouldn't have to be cutting down the Amazon rain forest to make room for land to grow crops for those animals. The crops give the animals nutrition so that they are healthy. If we simply ate the plants to get the nutrition we need rather than trying to get it through another body, we, the animals, AND the earth would be so much better off.
The transition from large factory farms to smaller family farms would be a great start.

But then there is the issue of jobs that the factory farms provide. Its a complicated issue that cannot be fixed overnight. That is why small changes like companies offering dairy and meat free options are something to be happy about. Baby steps. ^-^

Sparkling Man-Lover

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The transition from large factory farms to smaller family farms would be a great start.

But then there is the issue of jobs that the factory farms provide. Its a complicated issue that cannot be fixed overnight. That is why small changes like companies offering dairy and meat free options are something to be happy about. Baby steps. ^-^


arrow In family farms animals would still be slaughtered.

arrow That is true. However the ultimate goal would be to do away with animal exploitation altogether.

Magnetic Genius

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Aura_Tesla


The transition from large factory farms to smaller family farms would be a great start.

But then there is the issue of jobs that the factory farms provide. Its a complicated issue that cannot be fixed overnight. That is why small changes like companies offering dairy and meat free options are something to be happy about. Baby steps. ^-^


arrow In family farms animals would still be slaughtered.

arrow That is true. However the ultimate goal would be to do away with animal exploitation altogether.


This is true. Ideally, there would be no exploitation of animals at all. ^-^

Sparkling Man-Lover

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There is a thing called "cow punching". Does not really hurt the cows if you do it right. Sometimes ya gotta get their attention so they will move to where you want them. Been done for ages. Bad mouthing them, however...


So the times you don't do it right....?


Quote:

As for the calves, they are often taken and bottle fed at a certain age. Not all calves are sold for meat at a young age for veal.


But they're essentially kidnapped, in a manner of speaking. Mothers mourn them for days.

Quote:

It sounds like you had a raw deal. But really, it all depends on whether or not the owners and handlers have any respect or not. I have seen worse behavior that is really disturbing and the handlers involved got jail time for it. If a cow falls down, that is because they are sick.


They only have respect as long as the cow brings in profit. Once they're too sick I doubt they'll do anything other than put her down or outright ship her to the slaughterhouse.

Quote:


Either way, I won't argue with you about your choices. Mine is to have my milk and ice cream.


Adult lactation is quite a disturbing behaviour.

Lord Elwrind's Queen

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Nyadriel


There is a thing called "cow punching". Does not really hurt the cows if you do it right. Sometimes ya gotta get their attention so they will move to where you want them. Been done for ages. Bad mouthing them, however...


So the times you don't do it right....?


Quote:

As for the calves, they are often taken and bottle fed at a certain age. Not all calves are sold for meat at a young age for veal.


But they're essentially kidnapped, in a manner of speaking. Mothers mourn them for days.

Quote:

It sounds like you had a raw deal. But really, it all depends on whether or not the owners and handlers have any respect or not. I have seen worse behavior that is really disturbing and the handlers involved got jail time for it. If a cow falls down, that is because they are sick.


They only have respect as long as the cow brings in profit. Once they're too sick I doubt they'll do anything other than put her down or outright ship her to the slaughterhouse.

Quote:


Either way, I won't argue with you about your choices. Mine is to have my milk and ice cream.


Adult lactation is quite a disturbing behaviour.


Then it's called abuse and disrespectful, and not acceptable.

Moms don't really morn them too much when the calves are a certain age. This has been going on a lot longer than you realize. They have been bred like this deliberately even before big business.

Not true of all. But some behaviors are simply not acceptable even by the owners standards and why they cooperate with authorities and fire these assholes who do it. I mean, if you cannot do your damned job right and keep the animals healthy, for example, then the owner needs to find out about it and fire you. And by the way, there are Federal laws regarding cows sick with mad cow disease.

To you, perhaps. But this has been going on for thousands of years and not just with cows.
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