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Whether it be Penn Jillette or Stefan Molyneux I find my self amazed by the intelligence of a number of militant atheist and yet I am astonished by their over simplification of "religion."

They are very insightful in areas of economics and politics and yet when any passing reference to "religion" comes they they seem to revert almost instantly to a vile, overly simplistic, and even bigoted mentality that I normally expect from newly converted or young Christians who have an instantaneous and overt reaction to sin.

It's like a caricature of Salem where a reasonably intelligent puritan suddenly bursts out "WITCH WITCH!"

I imagine that most atheists will just say the religion is stupid but if it really were humanity as a whole would have dropped it on it's very creation (if you believe that consents of God is an invention of man that is).

What's with this cognitive dissidence?

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Artistic Layman
They are very insightful in areas of economics and politics and yet when any passing reference to "religion" comes they they seem to revert almost instantly to a vile, overly simplistic, and even bigoted mentality that I normally expect from newly converted or young Christians who have an instantaneous and overt reaction to sin.


Do you have any specific examples?

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People, as a whole, are easily manipulated. One of the easier ways of manipulating people is to get their emotions to overwhelm their common sense. An easy way to do this is to heavily lean on an "us vs. them" mentality. A well thought out and logical argument might win over 5% of the people you are speaking to. However, school yard bully mentality will engage as much as 30-40%, depending on the audience. Having done a lot of fundraising script writing for various political and non-profit groups, these are items that are consciously used get more money. So, it could just be a case of doing what is most profitable.

That said, I am not specifically familiar with the people you have listed, so that may or may not apply. It might just be someone whose personal bias on the issue is so large that they honestly believe their oversimplifications are truth with just as much fervor and faith as the craziest religious zealot.

Shameless Mystic

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Militant philosophical types are generally the same type of people, regardless of how different the philosophies might originally be. The likes of Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher (and their even more belligerent fans) are not too different from soapbox preachers. Their intent is different, but the worth of their character is identical.

Greedy Consumer

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When religion is unbudging in its stupidity, its hard to take them seriously the rest of your life without getting pissed.

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Well, religion IS very stupid. However it has a number of things "going" for it. 1- sense of community, 2- repetitious predictable ceremony (humans tend to like this), 3- brainwashing/indoctrination of children, 4- philosophical body that tries to explain the universe and how man came to be.

I like Penn Jillette and Richard Darwkins myself though. I think you have the wrong idea about Penn.

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Also forgot to mention vague generalizations; thanks to the two posters above me for that biggrin

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Artistic Layman


arrow They turn religion into a straw-man in order to ridicule it and attack it in a very taunting and childish fashion, boiling it down to its more outrageous and atavistic practices from its most extreme forms so that they can show how evil and corrupt religion truly is and how brainwashed and deluded people are. They forget there are very level-headed believers and they also forget that atheists can be as bad as some of the more virulent theists.

arrow Religion might be organized, but ideas of the supernatural and superior forces are as old as the human species. To some it might be absurd and unnecessary, but to others it's as essential as water and bread. Atheists cannot pretend it can be dropped like that, or that getting rid of it will solve all of the conflicts and issues.

arrow I'm an atheist myself and I feel second-hand embarrassment.

Jumping Jehosaphat


I like Richard Darwkins


He's sorta the Fred Phelps of the atheist movement, along with the president of American Atheists. Douchebags of a feather.

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XxTheVeganVampirexX
Artistic Layman


arrow They turn religion into a straw-man in order to ridicule it and attack it in a very taunting and childish fashion, boiling it down to its more outrageous and atavistic practices from its most extreme forms so that they can show how evil and corrupt religion truly is and how brainwashed and deluded people are. They forget there are very level-headed believers and they also forget that atheists can be as bad as some of the more virulent theists.

arrow Religion might be organized, but ideas of the supernatural and superior forces are as old as the human species. To some it might be absurd and unnecessary, but to others it's as essential as water and bread. Atheists cannot pretend it can be dropped like that, or that getting rid of it will solve all of the conflicts and issues.

arrow I'm an atheist myself and I feel second-hand embarrassment.

Jumping Jehosaphat


I like Richard Darwkins


He's sorta the Fred Phelps of the atheist movement, along with the president of American Atheists. Douchebags of a feather.

Just to be sure: are you perhaps confusing Richard Dawkins and Richard Carrier? Because I was under the impression that Carrier's the one who went balls-deep into Atheism Plus and became one of its most vocal attack-dogs.

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Sandokiri

Just to be sure: are you perhaps confusing Richard Dawkins and Richard Carrier? Because I was under the impression that Carrier's the one who went balls-deep into Atheism Plus and became one of its most vocal attack-dogs.


arrow Nope.

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XxTheVeganVampirexX
Sandokiri

Just to be sure: are you perhaps confusing Richard Dawkins and Richard Carrier? Because I was under the impression that Carrier's the one who went balls-deep into Atheism Plus and became one of its most vocal attack-dogs.


arrow Nope.


Fair enough. But yeah, I wouldn't go quite so far as to lump Dawkins in with Fred Phelps; after all, I've never seen him (or Hitchens or the like) picket Christian funerals with signs saying "No god hates sheeple" and "Thank no god for dead chaplains" or suchlike. razz

Maybe Dawkins <-> Pat Robertson. That I can see.

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Sandokiri



arrow Nope, he's just as dogmatic and hateful. He might not be doing shenanigans like Phelps used to, but he has that vitriol and corrosive mentality.

arrow Hitchens' hatred of Muslims/Islam and his endorsement of war was his way of defending the killing of people whose beliefs he saw as antithetical to his atheism.

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Artistic Layman
Whether it be Penn Jillette or Stefan Molyneux I find my self amazed by the intelligence of a number of militant atheist and yet I am astonished by their over simplification of "religion."


Why is the title of this thread addressing the act of being "simple about atheism" when this first line specifically addresses the notion of over simplification of religion?

Quote:
They are very insightful in areas of economics and politics and yet when any passing reference to "religion" comes they they seem to revert almost instantly to a vile, overly simplistic, and even bigoted mentality that I normally expect from newly converted or young Christians who have an instantaneous and overt reaction to sin.


Are you implying this happens in every atheist's daily life, "when any passing reference to religion comes" or is this all you can infer by what you see/read via the media?

Quote:
It's like a caricature of Salem where a reasonably intelligent puritan suddenly bursts out "WITCH WITCH!"


It might be, if you could just demonstrate where it's happening outside media sources?

Quote:
I imagine that most atheists will just say the religion is stupid but if it really were humanity as a whole would have dropped it on it's very creation (if you believe that consents of God is an invention of man that is).


Appeals to popularity and two-fifty will get you a cup of coffee.

Quote:
What's with this cognitive dissidence?


Please demonstrate how what you've described qualifies as cognitive dissonance.

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XxTheVeganVampirexX
Sandokiri

Just to be sure: are you perhaps confusing Richard Dawkins and Richard Carrier? Because I was under the impression that Carrier's the one who went balls-deep into Atheism Plus and became one of its most vocal attack-dogs.


arrow Nope.

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


Funny. Not in the way you intended it though.

See, I don't know much about Dawkins, but (unlike you apparantly) I have actually listened to a few of his speeches. He is polite to a fault, and has stated numerous times that he has no desire to see religion destroyed, but rather become something more of a passtime or quirk rather than a political force.

What's funny is that you aren't complaining about an actual Richard Dawkins, but rather an imaginary Richard Dawkins born of your own hatred towards atheists.

And from here we have the topic. The answer to "Why militant atheists" blah blah blah is that they largely don't, but rather the author is a colossal bigot.

Protip: whenever you are talking about a large group of people tied together by some nebulous thread (religion, race, whatever) substitute other groups in to what you are writing and see how it sounds.

Examples: "Why do militant atheists..." becomes "Why do greedy Jews ..." or "Why do lazy black people..."

If it sounds like the writing of a small-minded bigot when you do that, that's because it is the writing of a small-minded bigot.

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IronySandwich




See, I don't know much about Dawkins, but (unlike you apparantly) I have actually listened to a few of his speeches. He is polite to a fault, and has stated numerous times that he has no desire to see religion destroyed, but rather become something more of a passtime or quirk rather than a political force.


arrow I used to listen to his speeches and his debates almost religiously.
arrow He is not polite towards the religious or towards religion in general. He's downright patronising and treats them like chikdren. He taunts them and just belittles them at every turn.
arrow He is particularly biased against Islam.
arrow A quirk or a pastime? Like tennis? Easy for an European white male to say.

Quote:
What's funny is that you aren't complaining about an actual Richard Dawkins, but rather an imaginary Richard Dawkins born of your own hatred towards atheists.


arrow I dislike his particular brand of atheism. It's corrosive. The man should stick to biology.

Quote:
Examples: "Why do militant atheists..." becomes "Why do greedy Jews ..." or "Why do lazy black people..."


arrow Atheists should stop comparing themselves to racial/ethnic minorities.
Gaia Forums » MISC Forums » Forum & Sticky Archive » Morality and Religion

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