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Loyal Rogue

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Judge Jim Grey
I am happy to say that the Functional Libertarian approach is beginning to attract more and more people both in our country and around the world. But what does that mean? What would a Functional Libertarian world really look like?

Generally speaking, Functional Libertarians strive for a government in which people would happily pay their taxes because they see that the money is being responsibly and effectively spent for their general safety, welfare and quality of life. Obviously we will never attain that result, but we can strive for it.

So, to an appreciable degree, this is what that world would look like:

We would have strong police and military forces to protect us from foreigners and from each other. But, with only a few exceptions, we would just use our military forces to counteract threats to our safety, security and national interests, including keeping the seas and skies open for free trade. But we cannot be – and should not be – the world’s policeman. It doesn’t work, and we can’t afford it.

We would have a strong judiciary to hold people accountable for their actions, safeguard our liberties and freedoms, and enforce our contracts, warranties and other laws.

Since the largest security threat to our country is a weak economy, we would reduce government spending. Government rarely produces wealth, but one thing that big government is really good at is increasing the size, power and cost of big government. And in many regards, this has been harmful for virtually everyone. For example, anyone who believes that relying upon the government for their support can promote a better life should simply ask the Native Americans.

As another example, there is simply no reason for governments to own bulldozers, earth movers or dump trucks. Instead the government should contract with private companies to do the necessary work, and its role should be restricted to monitoring the timeliness and quality of the results, and paying for them.

Government regulations and intrusions into our lives would be greatly reduced and simplified. As the old saying goes, “fish swim, birds fly and regulators regulate.” Thus today, under our present local, state and national governments, regulators continually justify their existence by finding ever more things that they can oversee. Yes, we certainly need regulations in areas in which private property rights are hard to administer, such as the pollution of oceans and the atmosphere and the regulation of banks, but others would be vastly reduced.

We would also get the federal government more out of the business of owning real property. Now don’t get excited, the National Park system would continue, as would, for the most part, the national forests. But approximately 87 percent of the real property in Nevada is overseen by the Bureau of Land Management. That type of property would be sold at auction to the private sector. This would, in turn, directly result in the land being better protected and used than is happening today. If you are not persuaded by that statement, simply ask yourself this easy question: who takes better care of a house, an owner or a renter? And, of course, this would also produce many property taxes for the local governments that today are being lost.

Today’s system of “crony capitalism” that is so rampant would be curtailed as promptly as possible. That means that the government would no longer pay companies to drill for oil, raise or not raise crops, etc.

Adults would also be able to live in their chosen lifestyle without interference or discrimination from the government, as long as their choices didn’t wrongly hinder other adults from doing the same thing. That means that we would be living in a more socially accepting world.

We would have a strong educational system. This would be assured by allowing parents to dictate where the governmental education dollars for their children’s education would be spent. That would include public, private, vocational, religious and military schools, as long as they satisfied minimum teaching requirements. (And it would also end the inequity of some parents having to pay both for public schools as well as their children’s private schools.) Only then would the parents at all levels of society be able to demand – and receive – excellence in their children’s schooling! This has been confirmed by the school choice programs in Milwaukee.

The tax system would be enormously simplified, so that everyone would not only understand what they were paying, but they would also see that other people were actually paying their required amounts as well. People could then make business and personal decisions for business and personal reasons, instead of for tax reasons. Nothing would spur the economy as much as this change.

As a matter of First Amendment Freedom of Speech, individual people could make unlimited contributions to political campaigns, as long as they were disclosed immediately on the Internet. Big contributors always figure out a way to get their contributions to the candidates anyway, so this would just formalize the process. But non-human beings, such as corporations and labor unions, would not be able to make any political contributions whatsoever.

Undocumented workers would be able to apply for and receive work visas routinely, after being screened to determine if they had a criminal or mental health background that might cause problems here. Then if they could support themselves, they could live and work here legally. And if they could show they could support their families, they could bring them here as well. None of them would be eligible for welfare, but, since they would be here legally, they could cross our borders with ease, and also get drivers’ licenses. This would directly result in millions of good people who are today being harmed by our immigration system being able to live normal lives (and pay their taxes).

The so-called War on Drugs would be hastily ended. That would result in the Criminal Justice System being used in its intended manner, which would be to hold adults accountable for their actions, instead of what they put into their bodies. And, along the way, we would take hundreds of millions of dollars each year away from Mexican drug cartels, juvenile street gangs and lots of other thugs, and instead use the tax money from the sales of drugs to pay our teachers and fire fighters, and fix our roads (by private contract with the government). It would also revitalize the industrial hemp market.

But what about healthcare? Actually, most people in our country are financially able to take care of their own medical needs. So get the government and all of its dictates out of the way, and let them take care of themselves. Just like during the 1950s and early 1960s, this would result in the quality of healthcare going up, and its costs going back down.

For those people who are not financially able to take care of themselves, Functional Libertarians would create a medical safety net. I was in the Peace Corps – I care about people – and so do most Functional Libertarians. One way would be to have a system of government-sponsored health clinics and hospitals, just like we now have for our military personnel. It would be expensive, but hugely less so than what is being contemplated today. Why? Because we would be paying money for doctors, nurses, medicines and hospitals, instead of for bureaucracy, administration and fraud.

All of these approaches make Functional Libertarians archetypal conservatives, because we strongly promote responsibility at all levels of society, including personal, corporate and governmental. But they also make us archetypal liberals, because we really do want the government to get out of our lives as much as possible. That means that, for example, unless the government had a judicial warrant, it would not be surveilling us with drones, snooping on our telephone calls, or gaining access to our bank records or our bedrooms.

So the Functional Libertarian philosophy combines honest principles with practical effectiveness. Thus anyone who believes in both financial responsibility and social acceptance is probably a Libertarian at heart. In other words, Libertarian principles work – for everybody.

There are many good books discussing the Libertarian philosophy and approaches. Two of the best are “Libertarianism in One Lesson” by David Bergland (Orpheus Publications, 8th edition, 2000), and “Libertarianism: A Primer” by David Boaz (The Free Press, 1997). Give this approach some thought, and then join us. Because together we Functional Libertarians can bring back the United States of America that we love!

Shadowy Powerhouse

9,125 Points
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That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.
"Today’s system of “crony capitalism” that is so rampant would be curtailed as promptly as possible. That means that the government would no longer pay companies to drill for oil, raise or not raise crops, etc."

I like how this is stated and how the tax breaks or the amount of land given them at discount prices. Then you have the protection given when things go bad from poor oversight since they wanted to regulate themselves.

I'd like to add that "crony capitalism" is a ironic phrase since anything wrong with the economic system is blamed on certain aspects and not on the system itself.

Loyal Rogue

14,550 Points
  • Full closet 200
  • Tested Practitioner 250
  • Elocutionist 200
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.

Omnipresent Warlord

Chieftain Twilight
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?

Loyal Rogue

14,550 Points
  • Full closet 200
  • Tested Practitioner 250
  • Elocutionist 200
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.

Omnipresent Warlord

Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.

Loyal Rogue

14,550 Points
  • Full closet 200
  • Tested Practitioner 250
  • Elocutionist 200
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?

Omnipresent Warlord

Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Wendigo
That "national interest" exception covers a heck of a lot already. One might even say that the entire paragraph on police and military is what the people currently in power think we're already doing.

Th' argument about the Native Americans is rather a bum steer, since that system was put together as an afterthought to their being purposefully pushed off their land and all but eradicated. Both the ration system and the whole concept of "sovereignty" for the tribes were based around covering asses, not protecting lives.

So levees should be built by the lowest bidder? What is with people and public-private partnerships? They are EASILY a step worse than government employees doing things directly. See: KBR doing reconstruction in Iraq. How much sewage you want to drink?

Why would anybody, ever, think that private ownership is inherently good for land? Let's be clear on this, renting a house and owning a stretch of forest are two different things. One of the reasons we have so much federal land in the first place is because private owners of land were handling it incredibly badly. Strip mining and clearcutting are both formerly widespread industrial activities. The ******** Dust Bowl was caused by private land owners being stupid dicks.

Crony capitalism is bad now? I thought we were relying on contractors to run all our dumptrucks?

I'm all for simplifying the tax code, so long as it goes back to taking the existence of millionaires into account.

Not a fan of unlimited campaign contributions. Or, really, any campaign contributions. I'd much rather see limits on total campaign spending than on the source or type of donations.

No major beef on immigration, drugs or health care. Not a fan of education vouchers, which are an idea basically pushed aggressively by the religious right.


I will dare to challenge the claim that private land owners were abusive to land rights and having it all owned by the government helps. my best argument to that is that when somebody owns land that they are using for harvesting resources (coal, oil, wood, gemstones, animal products, food) they are going to husband their resources if they know what is good for them. nobody who is making money off of their land is going to destroy that source of income. meanwhile, our government, with it's corporate sponsors, has been blatantly abusing it's ownership of federally-owned and even state-owned land and allowing such destructive and wasteful practices as topmining and fracking.


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?


I'm trying to make sense of what appears to be a contradictory argument. Like selling most of Nevada's government-owned property under the assumptions that corporations/businesses would manage it better but if corporations/business is bad then why trust them at all to manage it?

Loyal Rogue

14,550 Points
  • Full closet 200
  • Tested Practitioner 250
  • Elocutionist 200
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?


I'm trying to make sense of what appears to be a contradictory argument.


I'll make it easier, then. I am Syndicalist. I support the Libertarian Party because they are the closest thing to my views and goals that has even a remote chance of getting elevated to Major Party status in the near future.

I believe in personal freedoms for people, and in being responsible. I value hard work and honest commerce. I think that people should be able to live their own lives without interference from others.

I also think that corporations should not be able to sponsor candidates or have limited liability rights and protections. I hate the fact that corporations are spending trillions of dollars annually to lobby politicians and government officials to support their interests at the expense of everyone else. it's a rigged game.

I believe that having a strong centralized government is part of that problem. if government is bad because corporations are in bed with government, then more government will only make it worse. to fight this unholy union off, we must dismantle the connections and weaken government.

limited government leads to prosperity for everyone.
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech


You're attacking the government for allowing private industry to topminining and fracking while saying the corporations, who lobby the government, would do better if the government would let them do as they wish? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

If the government were to sell off all of its public parks to private industry and some millionaire buys up a park in order to strip mine... then how does this benefit anyone?


no, no, you misunderstand. I am against corporate rule. I'm not talking about corporate ownership of the land -- they already do. I'm talking about responsible and effective business strategies. the corporations are running our government, so we can no longer trust our government. it's full of crooks.


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?


I'm trying to make sense of what appears to be a contradictory argument.


I'll make it easier, then. I am Syndicalist. I support the Libertarian Party because they are the closest thing to my views and goals that has even a remote chance of getting elevated to Major Party status in the near future.

I believe in personal freedoms for people, and in being responsible. I value hard work and honest commerce. I think that people should be able to live their own lives without interference from others.

I also think that corporations should not be able to sponsor candidates or have limited liability rights and protections. I hate the fact that corporations are spending trillions of dollars annually to lobby politicians and government officials to support their interests at the expense of everyone else. it's a rigged game.

I believe that having a strong centralized government is part of that problem. if government is bad because corporations are in bed with government, then more government will only make it worse. to fight this unholy union off, we must dismantle the connections and weaken government.

limited government leads to prosperity for everyone.


In other words you want to bring back the 19th century. Where government was limited and the economy boomed and the good times rolled. You'll have to give me papers before I take you serious on the notion that a weak government is by all means good for all.

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1 Libtard with a big fertilizer bomb and a really bad ruins that Utopia in a weekend.
Dermezel II
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?


I'm trying to make sense of what appears to be a contradictory argument.


I'll make it easier, then. I am Syndicalist. I support the Libertarian Party because they are the closest thing to my views and goals that has even a remote chance of getting elevated to Major Party status in the near future.

I believe in personal freedoms for people, and in being responsible. I value hard work and honest commerce. I think that people should be able to live their own lives without interference from others.

I also think that corporations should not be able to sponsor candidates or have limited liability rights and protections. I hate the fact that corporations are spending trillions of dollars annually to lobby politicians and government officials to support their interests at the expense of everyone else. it's a rigged game.

I believe that having a strong centralized government is part of that problem. if government is bad because corporations are in bed with government, then more government will only make it worse. to fight this unholy union off, we must dismantle the connections and weaken government.

limited government leads to prosperity for everyone.


In other words you want to bring back the 19th century. Where government was limited and the economy boomed and the good times rolled. You'll have to give me papers before I take you serious on the notion that a weak government is by all means good for all.


I'm pretty sure you've gotten plenty of papers by a continued series of whistle-blowers just how dangerous an unlimited government is. The worst is yet to come. Russia and China are moving away from using the US dollar as a reserve currency, and with this NSA horseshit we've pissed off economic superpowers like Germany to the point they no longer want to trade with us. You like big, strong government? You got it, and you'll reap what you sow.

Omnipresent Warlord

Project 429
Dermezel II
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech
Chieftain Twilight
Omnileech


If corporations run our government and government is bad because of it then why aren't corporations bad? I still don't follow you. It seems to be that you're blaming the government for being corrupted by business while hailing business.

As Wendigo said, the individual business owner can make decisions that benefit themselves but are disastrous for the wider community. The dust bowl is a really good example of how business owners ruined a lot of lives by pursuing their own interests.



.... corporations are bad. I am condemning them. o_O; are you even reading what I am saying? or are you looking at the word "Libertarian" and conjuring up a strawman "right-wing nut"?


I'm trying to make sense of what appears to be a contradictory argument.


I'll make it easier, then. I am Syndicalist. I support the Libertarian Party because they are the closest thing to my views and goals that has even a remote chance of getting elevated to Major Party status in the near future.

I believe in personal freedoms for people, and in being responsible. I value hard work and honest commerce. I think that people should be able to live their own lives without interference from others.

I also think that corporations should not be able to sponsor candidates or have limited liability rights and protections. I hate the fact that corporations are spending trillions of dollars annually to lobby politicians and government officials to support their interests at the expense of everyone else. it's a rigged game.

I believe that having a strong centralized government is part of that problem. if government is bad because corporations are in bed with government, then more government will only make it worse. to fight this unholy union off, we must dismantle the connections and weaken government.

limited government leads to prosperity for everyone.


In other words you want to bring back the 19th century. Where government was limited and the economy boomed and the good times rolled. You'll have to give me papers before I take you serious on the notion that a weak government is by all means good for all.


I'm pretty sure you've gotten plenty of papers by a continued series of whistle-blowers just how dangerous an unlimited government is. The worst is yet to come. Russia and China are moving away from using the US dollar as a reserve currency, and with this NSA horseshit we've pissed off economic superpowers like Germany to the point they no longer want to trade with us. You like big, strong government? You got it, and you'll reap what you sow.


I'd like to point out that the United States has twice the GDP as China, 5 times the GDP of Germany, and 8 times the GDP of Russia. The United States is the second largest trading partner of Germany with the first being France, it's neighbor. Why would Germany throw itself into a massive recession by plunging it's already weak economy into the crapper. (+.7% GDP growth as opposed to the United States' +2.2% GDP growth)
Judge Jim Grey

Since the largest security threat to our country is a weak economy, we would reduce government spending.

Non sequitur.

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