It's a rebellion

[FateXTime]

The world's governments dislike us stealing from the music industry, movies, and corporations. Sometimes we don't want to give you money, what's wrong with that? -.- You decide you want to rebel and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our swords of our voice and our shield being our petitions.

[neowired]

xXPhoenix DownXx

The world's governments dislike us stealing from the music industry, movies, and corporations. Sometimes we don't want to give you money, what's wrong with that? -.- You decide you want to rebel and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our swords of our voice and our shield being our petitions.

Let's rephrase that

The world's governments hate us when we freely share things monopolized by them and by the music industry, movie industry, and by the corporations. Sometimes we don't want corporations to steal our money and our rights, and other things which we legally own, what's wrong with that? You decide you want to betray us, The People, and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our words, for pen is mightier than the sword, and if needed even a pen can be deadly. Our ideas will shield us, for ideas can never be stopped. We are The People. We are the 99%. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget....

Expect us.


PS: Don't beat me anons, it just seemed like a fun thing to play with XD

[Infix]

neowired

xXPhoenix DownXx

The world's governments dislike us stealing from the music industry, movies, and corporations. Sometimes we don't want to give you money, what's wrong with that? -.- You decide you want to rebel and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our swords of our voice and our shield being our petitions.

Let's rephrase that

The world's governments hate us when we freely share things monopolized by them and by the music industry, movie industry, and by the corporations. Sometimes we don't want corporations to steal our money and our rights, and other things which we legally own, what's wrong with that? You decide you want to betray us, The People, and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our words, for pen is mightier than the sword, and if needed even a pen can be deadly. Our ideas will shield us, for ideas can never be stopped. We are The People. We are the 99%. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget....

Expect us.


PS: Don't beat me anons, it just seemed like a fun thing to play with XD

allow me to rephrase it once more.

The world's governments dislike it when you steal from companies with a legitimate claim to their creations like the music industry, movie industry, and by the corporations. Sometimes we don't want to pay for something but still use it without permission, what's wrong with that? You decide you want to stop us without full knowledge of the damage you'll cause, and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our protests and voice. We are The People. We are the 99%, unless of course you count the rest of the world, in which we turn into the 1%. We are Legion kinda, really we're mostly zombies who willingly install botnets on our computers so others can attack whoever they see fit. We do not forgive, unless you publicly support us on a tv or something similar (calling you out colbert!). We do not forget, until we find a new target the media covers more stories on.....

Expect us.

[neowired]

Infix

The world's governments (...) We do not forget, until we find a new target the media covers more stories on.....

Expect us.

I said it again, and again, and again, and I'll say it once more.
Copying is not stealing, it is making a copy. "Stealing potential profit" is what concurrence does, not what thief's do, ergo, it is just a phrase which makes no sense. Because "potential" is just a concept, it's not tangible, meaning, you can't steal it. It's an abuse of language, it is shaming language, and it is bullshit.

And "stealing freedom" means, taking away your rights to do things. Rights are not concepts, there are defined by law as specific things which you can or can't do, meaning, you can give them or take them away. Which includes your right to operate on things which you legally bought, which DRM is made to steal, same with laws which penalize you for making copies of things which you legally bought. Ergo, companies are stealing our freedom to operate on things which we legally bought.

And that's not even going into the freedom of speech area or unjust monopolistic practices which lawlessly threaten and harass indy artists.

What you can steal is the ownership rights, meaning, you can plagiarize something. This happens if you say you made something which you didn't make. This is the only way in which you can steal "intellectual property"

You sir are either brainwashed or a troll.
Copyrights in the current form are pure bullshit

[Angelic iGirl]

neowired

Infix

The world's governments (...) We do not forget, until we find a new target the media covers more stories on.....

Expect us.

I said it again, and again, and again, and I'll say it once more.
Copying is not stealing, it is making a copy. "Stealing potential profit" is what concurrence does, not what thief's do, ergo, it is just a phrase which makes no sense. Because "potential" is just a concept, it's not tangible, meaning, you can't steal it. It's an abuse of language, it is shaming language, and it is bullshit.

And "stealing freedom" means, taking away your rights to do things. Rights are not concepts, there are defined by law as specific things which you can or can't do, meaning, you can give them or take them away. Which includes your right to operate on things which you legally bought, which DRM is made to steal, same with laws which penalize you for making copies of things which you legally bought. Ergo, companies are stealing our freedom to operate on things which we legally bought.

And that's not even going into the freedom of speech area or unjust monopolistic practices which lawlessly threaten and harass indy artists.

What you can steal is the ownership rights, meaning, you can plagiarize something. This happens if you say you made something which you didn't make. This is the only way in which you can steal "intellectual property"

You sir are either brainwashed or a troll.
Copyrights in the current form are pure bullshit

So if you made a recipe book (for example) you wouldn't mind if people just took photos of the pages in the shop, to get the recipes, instead of buying it? You would get nothing for all the time you spent baking, typing and testing.
You put in the effort you expect the reward.

[neowired]

Angelic iGirl

So if you made a recipe book (for example) you wouldn't mind if people just took photos of the pages in the shop, to get the recipes, instead of buying it? You would get nothing for all the time you spent baking, typing and testing.
You put in the effort you expect the reward.

For the recipe analogy, I don't think it's a good analogy. There are shops where you can go and sit down and read the book before you buy it (you don't have to pay anything; they will even supply you with a comfy chair to sit on; you don't have to buy it afterwards), in that case you can easily go and check the recipe. Also something like a recipe book seems completely redundant (there is no demand) in the age of the shared internet knowledge (like wiki).

It's like this. As an artist, and I am an artist (I profit from it)
I don't think it should be lawful to make money from other people's art without their prior agreement. Doesn't matter if it's 10 years or 70 or 170 (I don't think it should pass onto the children though, only the person who is the actual author)
But, that's only as long as the person who is sharing it is making profit from it. Even worse if he's plagiarizing/saying he made it (although there are some problems with this as well)

BUT, this is only, assuming free services like torrents or p2p which do not make money from this, should never be prosecuted. A cloud of users freely sharing their data should never be prosecuted for it.
As long as you aren't using it as a direct way to make money, I don't see why this should be illegal. You are paying for your internet provider for the service which is supposed to allow you to communicate with others and share data. Someone is buying the art and sharing it with other people for free, using the service. It is same concept as sharing things with your friends, except it taken up to a higher level. If anything, I see this as a beautiful feature, because it shows a strong sort of will to share with others what you see as worthy. Essentially you want to make the world a better place, it's a great thing.

Furthermore, I can even understand a site which acts as a matrix for some p2p, taking donations if it needs some money to support itself. Once again, as long as someone isn't making a living out of it.
Services like megaupload are slightly troublesome, because they do sort of make money from it... except megaupload was already working on a system where artists would be able to directly sell files to the users, using it as a proxy (was expected to be a very good system, some say it's why the corporations attacked it to begin with... using feds as a proxy)

I believe, never should a single user be prosecuted for downloading something from the net, or for sharing it with someone else. And I think if people wouldn't be prosecuted for torrents or other p2p, then services like megupload would never be popular in the first place.

Furthermore, I believe if people like something, they will pay the artist, even if they can get it for free. As long as they have the money to spend. And if they don't have the money, they will remember the artist and pay for something else, later when they have the money, or they do free viral advertising. If people don't have enough money for something, you can't force them to pay for it, it means the market is over-saturated and you need to find a different activity - the supply is too large and the demand is too small (it means you need to change your business model)
I've seen people donate large amounts of money to artists in need (despite governments and corporations making donating money to single people rather difficult in a variety of ways)
More so, I have been personally overpayed on numerous occasions by nice people who were happy with my work... so in that way I'm pretty optimistic about it.

As it is now, we have media corporations which stuff 200 mil $ to make a movie with an awful script and pretty explosions, and then stuff another 100 mil $ into it to promote it, effectively killing all competition in any media outside the internet. The internet is the only way for small artists to promote anything. This is another reason why I'm viciously against any laws which are supposed to control the net for the sake of corporations (because that's really what they do, like the DCMA constantly used to harass internet artists disregarding law procedures)

As for a bunch of other problems, there is the problems which happen by proxy. To effectively control "copying" of copyrighted content, you MUST use very intrusive DRM. DRM essentially takes control of your pc, which you bought and own (but now you can't use it as it was intended because the DRM will intrusively stop you). There are many other problems with it, DRM is essentially maleware, a malicious rootkit (which poses various security risques and is very morally dubious). On top of it to work it must pretty much monitor your whole activity, which should be/is illegal.
And there are those projects where you "rent" an mp3 which auto-destructs after 24 hours, now that is plain bullshit as well.

As for corporations loosing money on piracy, I will give you this interesting article from Forbes http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/02/07/lies-damned-lies-and-piracy/
Through weather you believe it and weather you will check the data, that's your choice.

There are many more problems with the whole global pact to control the internet (SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, Protect IP, TPP, TRIPS, etc, I'm pretty sure they all stem from the same source) Listing of which would take me too much time.
Each of the agreements has it's own specific problems. ACTA is largely about patents, for example some say it can essentially render all cheap/generic drugs illegal... which in turn can be deadly, especially in some countries for some poor people. Now, this is what's really unethical...

Even telling people these things I feel sort of scared that I could be prosecuted by those in power for just using my right to freely talk about these things. These people are vicious heartless monsters. They WILL harass you and destroy you if they deem you dangerous, in current world they are already very much above the law.

[Infix]

neowired

Infix

The world's governments (...) We do not forget, until we find a new target the media covers more stories on.....

Expect us.

I said it again, and again, and again, and I'll say it once more.
Copying is not stealing, it is making a copy. "Stealing potential profit" is what concurrence does, not what thief's do, ergo, it is just a phrase which makes no sense. Because "potential" is just a concept, it's not tangible, meaning, you can't steal it. It's an abuse of language, it is shaming language, and it is bullshit.

And "stealing freedom" means, taking away your rights to do things. Rights are not concepts, there are defined by law as specific things which you can or can't do, meaning, you can give them or take them away. Which includes your right to operate on things which you legally bought, which DRM is made to steal, same with laws which penalize you for making copies of things which you legally bought. Ergo, companies are stealing our freedom to operate on things which we legally bought.

And that's not even going into the freedom of speech area or unjust monopolistic practices which lawlessly threaten and harass indy artists.

What you can steal is the ownership rights, meaning, you can plagiarize something. This happens if you say you made something which you didn't make. This is the only way in which you can steal "intellectual property"

You sir are either brainwashed or a troll.
Copyrights in the current form are pure bullshit

And i'll say it again and again and again, your stealing a copy. Thats theft. Music and art and anything pirated are the creations of the artists, and they have a claim to sell their copies. If you think that taking it for free isn't stealing, your severely misled. They made it, they wanted to profit from it. You took it for free, you stole a copy. That is still theft.

And thats not even going into the difference between piracy and file sharing.
please try to use a legitimate argument instead of rambling nonsense you heard on the internet.
There isn't any law against copying things you bought. On the condition that you actually copy it, and don't give it to other people for free.

You are clearly stupid, brainwashed, or severely misinformed
I'm definitely not a troll, just very against stupidity.

[Infix]

Quote:

So if you made a recipe book (for example) you wouldn't mind if people just took photos of the pages in the shop, to get the recipes, instead of buying it? You would get nothing for all the time you spent baking, typing and testing.
You put in the effort you expect the reward.

Quote:

For the recipe analogy, I don't think it's a good analogy. There are shops where you can go and sit down and read the book before you buy it (you don't have to pay anything; they will even supply you with a comfy chair to sit on; you don't have to buy it afterwards), in that case you can easily go and check the recipe. Also something like a recipe book seems completely redundant (there is no demand) in the age of the shared internet knowledge (like wiki).

If a book store purchases a recipe book, and allows people to read them without buying, in hopes that they do buy it, thats their choice, what they don't do is let people leave the store without paying for such books, so the recipe analogy is a good one.

Quote:

BUT, this is only, assuming free services like torrents or p2p which do not make money from this, should never be prosecuted. A cloud of users freely sharing their data should never be prosecuted for it.

There isn't a problem with file sharing, but when the site owner promotes pirating, that is when copyright laws come into place. Such as limewire, the pirate bay, and megaupload.

Quote:

As long as you aren't using it as a direct way to make money, I don't see why this should be illegal. You are paying for your internet provider for the service which is supposed to allow you to communicate with others and share data. Someone is buying the art and sharing it with other people for free, using the service. It is same concept as sharing things with your friends, except it taken up to a higher level. If anything, I see this as a beautiful feature, because it shows a strong sort of will to share with others what you see as worthy. Essentially you want to make the world a better place, it's a great thing.

No, its not the same, That person isn't sharing what he bought, hes giving out copies for you to steal from the artist. its not the same concept as sharing things with your friends, because your friends don't get to keep it if you show them a song on a cd. and if you let them keep it, you no longer own your copy. so their is a difference.

Quote:

Services like megaupload are slightly troublesome, because they do sort of make money from it... except megaupload was already working on a system where artists would be able to directly sell files to the users, using it as a proxy (was expected to be a very good system, some say it's why the corporations attacked it to begin with... using feds as a proxy)

They attacked megaupload because kim dotcom was a clear cut cyber criminal. Theres no gray area to that.

Quote:

I believe, never should a single user be prosecuted for downloading something from the net, or for sharing it with someone else. And I think if people wouldn't be prosecuted for torrents or other p2p, then services like megupload would never be popular in the first place.

So noone should ever be charged for stealing. Good idea.

Quote:

Furthermore, I believe if people like something, they will pay the artist, even if they can get it for free. As long as they have the money to spend. And if they don't have the money, they will remember the artist and pay for something else, later when they have the money, or they do free viral advertising. If people don't have enough money for something, you can't force them to pay for it, it means the market is over-saturated and you need to find a different activity - the supply is too large and the demand is too small (it means you need to change your business model)

First of all, the first section was right, if they like something, likely they will pay for it to some extent. no debates there. but people should definitely be forced to pay for something when the owner asks you to pay for it.

Quote:

As it is now, we have media corporations which stuff 200 mil $ to make a movie with an awful script and pretty explosions, and then stuff another 100 mil $ into it to promote it, effectively killing all competition in any media outside the internet. The internet is the only way for small artists to promote anything. This is another reason why I'm viciously against any laws which are supposed to control the net for the sake of corporations (because that's really what they do, like the DCMA constantly used to harass internet artists disregarding law procedures)

There aren't any laws to my knowledge against file sharing. There is a fine line between file sharing and piracy you know.

Quote:

As for a bunch of other problems, there is the problems which happen by proxy. To effectively control "copying" of copyrighted content, you MUST use very intrusive DRM. DRM essentially takes control of your pc, which you bought and own (but now you can't use it as it was intended because the DRM will intrusively stop you). There are many other problems with it, DRM is essentially maleware, a malicious rootkit (which poses various security risques and is very morally dubious). On top of it to work it must pretty much monitor your whole activity, which should be/is illegal.
And there are those projects where you "rent" an mp3 which auto-destructs after 24 hours, now that is plain bullshit as well.

DRM definitely isn't malware or a rootkit. Not positive how you came to that conclusion. I also wouldn't rent an mp3 though, thats pretty bullshit.

Quote:

There are many more problems with the whole global pact to control the internet (SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, Protect IP, TPP, TRIPS, etc, I'm pretty sure they all stem from the same source) Listing of which would take me too much time.
Each of the agreements has it's own specific problems. ACTA is largely about patents, for example some say it can essentially render all cheap/generic drugs illegal... which in turn can be deadly, especially in some countries for some poor people. Now, this is what's really unethical...

Good points here. Although ACTA can't make the drugs illegal, it could harm their transport between countries. Although I believe obama has insured us it would not. whether he did or not, only the future will tell for that case.

Quote:

Even telling people these things I feel sort of scared that I could be prosecuted by those in power for just using my right to freely talk about these things. These people are vicious heartless monsters. They WILL harass you and destroy you if they deem you dangerous, in current world they are already very much above the law.

I think you're letting your fear get to your head here. You won't be prosecuted for free speech, unless you start pirating, or allowing others to pirate. I definitely will say alot of the corporations you may be referring to definitely are out to get anyone they deem dangerous though.

[neowired]

Infix

(...)

Good work at completely missing the point that copying is not stealing. Good work at completely failing at logic. Good work at completely disregarding that you can't steal something which doesn't exist and that "stealing potential" only means making concurence, ergo, not stealing at all.

Good work at failing at understanding proper use of words and language.

You didn't disappoint me you troll. TROLL HARDER. HARDER, DAMNIT, HARDER
WE NEED MORE

I won't be wasting any more time with you, I have better things to do.

[Infix]

neowired

Infix

(...)

Good work at completely missing the point that copying is not stealing. Good work at completely failing at logic. Good work at completely disregarding that you can't steal something which doesn't exist and that "stealing potential" only means making concurence, ergo, not stealing at all.

Good work at failing at understanding proper use of words and language.

You didn't disappoint me you troll. TROLL HARDER. HARDER, DAMNIT, HARDER
WE NEED MORE

I won't be wasting any more time with you, I have better things to do.

Ok, heres a few things.
First, I regular the heaven forum, which if you don't know, is the one forum on gaia that can actually be called troll-free.

Secondly, all my points were valid. If you steal a copy of something, when the artist is trying to sell that copy, you just committed theft. I didn't miss your point, I argued head on. How can you think taking something that someone wants you to pay for is not stealing?

In fact, here is the definition of the word "steal"
to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice

That sounds exactly like what your describing. They own their creations, and you are taking them wrongfully. That is stealing.

There was nothing wrong with my grammar so I don't understand why you would claim that.

And finally, you failed to dispute any of my points, and instead went for insults, so that would in fact make you the troll.

Songs, movies, videos, and anything else regularly pirated do exist, and they are for sale from their owners. Not for you to take for free. Just because something doesn't exist in physical form doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Your logic is flawed, and since you refuse to debate your points, I think you know you're wrong.

[Spire Dragon of the West]

... I regular the heaven forum, which if you don't know, is the one forum on gaia that can actually be called troll-free.

No forum anywhere is troll free.

[Angelic iGirl]

neutral
Stealing is wrong isn't it? This is a way of trying to stop stealing.
Not saying I support it, but surely SOPA could have some positives?

[A Slow Rot]

Infix

neowired

xXPhoenix DownXx

The world's governments dislike us stealing from the music industry, movies, and corporations. Sometimes we don't want to give you money, what's wrong with that? -.- You decide you want to rebel and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our swords of our voice and our shield being our petitions.

Let's rephrase that

The world's governments hate us when we freely share things monopolized by them and by the music industry, movie industry, and by the corporations. Sometimes we don't want corporations to steal our money and our rights, and other things which we legally own, what's wrong with that? You decide you want to betray us, The People, and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our words, for pen is mightier than the sword, and if needed even a pen can be deadly. Our ideas will shield us, for ideas can never be stopped. We are The People. We are the 99%. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget....

Expect us.


PS: Don't beat me anons, it just seemed like a fun thing to play with XD

allow me to rephrase it once more.

The world's governments dislike it when you steal from companies with a legitimate claim to their creations like the music industry, movie industry, and by the corporations. Sometimes we don't want to pay for something but still use it without permission, what's wrong with that? You decide you want to stop us without full knowledge of the damage you'll cause, and take all of our websites away from us, even the ones we use everyday. We're the insurgents against your undying agenda. We shall defeat you with our protests and voice. We are The People. We are the 99%, unless of course you count the rest of the world, in which we turn into the 1%. We are Legion kinda, really we're mostly zombies who willingly install botnets on our computers so others can attack whoever they see fit. We do not forgive, unless you publicly support us on a tv or something similar (calling you out colbert!). We do not forget, until we find a new target the media covers more stories on.....

Expect us.

And allow ME to rephrase this all...

SOPA sucks.

[Infix]

Spire Dragon of the West

... I regular the heaven forum, which if you don't know, is the one forum on gaia that can actually be called troll-free.

No forum anywhere is troll free.

have you seen the heaven forum? It has multiple safeguards in place to prevent trolls. I think you might just be overestimating the ability of trolls likely due to the amount you see it on cb, gd, 4chan, or any other frequents for trolls. Heaven has an active moderator community, a period before entering, and your ability to go to it can be revoked. Not to say trolls don't sneak in once in a while, but they don't get the pleasure of staying there for long. Therefore, heaven is troll-free. wink

despite the appearance of popular forums, gaia has a lot more users who are not trolls vs users that are trolls. Its just that negative actions attract a lot more attention than positive ones do unfortunately sad