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[mirein meyun]

you all got it wrong.
The thread was supposed to be about how most mental illnesses have an underlying physical cause, yet in common practice, we just immediately medicate the symptoms, and never look for the underlying cause. So you take drugs to mask your symptoms, while the real problem remains undiagnosed.

[fantasma_mirth]

While I do not wholeheartedly agree with you, I do agree that a lot of mental illness has been linked to other things. There is actually talk now about how depression may be linked to low level inflammation. I do think our diet has a lot to do with things, and our culture has a lot to do with things.

[Wil the Delicious]

I don't really care what Schizophrenia is officially classified as, I only care about not feeling paranoid and shitty 24/7

[fantasma_mirth]

Schizophrenia is actually one of the big ones that is majorly different in different cultures. In places where mental illness is stigmatized people are more likely to have shouting or angry voices. The overall vibe tends to be very negative. In other places, places without the strong stigmatization people report hearing giggling or even singing and music, overall a far more positive and playful vibe.

It is also worth noting that in many cultures where schizophrenia isn't a big deal, they are far more accepting of the concept of "voices in the head". Here some parents freak out if children have an imaginary friend. It is vastly different in places where it is attributed to spirits or fairies or even ancestors. Not gonna say those things are real or not, but I could definitely see how having that outlook could make the occasional auditory hallucination easier to deal with.

[AmericanMonster]

I dont care what people call "real", all I know is every day I have to fight with my own brain every moment I'm awake and not completely and totally occupied with something. If you've never suffered the way people like me do you have no idea what not being well is like. To destroy everything good in your life out of blind rage and self hatred. To have yelling matches with voices in your head telling you to do things.

[Ugly Pitbulls]

Bipolar has been shown to be genetic as well. What in the world are you talking about?
Things like depression and anxiety has a genetic factor too.

I think you're having a difficulty differentiating the difference between nature and nurture.

Your phobia example is clearly nurture.
Schizophrenia is clearly nature.

That's why therapy works so well for treating phobia and that's why it can't treat schizophrenia.

Anyway, of course mental illnesses are psychical illnesses. Want to see some mri scans? Want to hear about neurotransmitters?

Now that I read your s**t, I'm going to bash you for saying my bipolar isn't real.
What the ******** was up with that disclaimer? Why did you even need to put that? Why'd you single out bipolar disorder?

Want to talk diet? I've had basically the same diet my entire life. My family all eats the shame shitty food. I am bipolar while none of them are. It's actually pretty naive that you'd suggest a good diet could settle down my mania. My goodness. It sounds like you've never met someone manic, or psychotic.

Lithium helps stimulate more neuron growth. It's not just masking symptoms, it's fixing the brain.

[mirein meyun]

fantasma_mirth

Schizophrenia is actually one of the big ones that is majorly different in different cultures. In places where mental illness is stigmatized people are more likely to have shouting or angry voices. The overall vibe tends to be very negative. In other places, places without the strong stigmatization people report hearing giggling or even singing and music, overall a far more positive and playful vibe.

It is also worth noting that in many cultures where schizophrenia isn't a big deal, they are far more accepting of the concept of "voices in the head". Here some parents freak out if children have an imaginary friend. It is vastly different in places where it is attributed to spirits or fairies or even ancestors. Not gonna say those things are real or not, but I could definitely see how having that outlook could make the occasional auditory hallucination easier to deal with.

Well, that may be true, but isn't really relevant to my point.
You're talking about the manifestation, which of course would be relevant to the person's environment, but you're still not getting at the actual cause.

I mean, I don't hate people with cancer, but me accepting them as people even though they are sick doesn't make the sickness go away.

[mirein meyun]

xX_Sandman_Slim_Xx

I dont care what people call "real", all I know is every day I have to fight with my own brain every moment I'm awake and not completely and totally occupied with something. If you've never suffered the way people like me do you have no idea what not being well is like. To destroy everything good in your life out of blind rage and self hatred. To have yelling matches with voices in your head telling you to do things.

Which is why you should have actually read the first post and seen what this thread was really about.

I said MENTAL illness isn't real, but rather all "mental" illness like bipolar and schizophrenia are physical disorders with extreme mental manifestations.

Take the disorder PKU for example. For the longest time, this was believed to be a neurological/mental disorder that caused seizures, and mental retardation.
One day, a physician decided to look at urine samples of children with this disorder, and from that was able to determine that PKU was not neurological at all. It was problem with the digestive system. Now this disorder is checked for at birth, and if positive, the children are put on an extremely strict diet, and they develop normally.

When you have untreated PKU, you feel the pain mentally and neurologically.
Similarly, if you have schizophrenia or bipolar, you are going to feel most of the pain mentally and neurologically. And doctors now just treat the mental symptoms, because it's profitable for them.
PKU, which manifests a severe "neurological" disorder is actually a digestion disorder.

In the case of "mental" illness, your brain doesn't just start malfunctioning without cause. There is some underlying physical condition which is causes these problems to happen. And as shown by PKU, it isn't necessarily neurological in nature.


The pharmaceutical companies are a corporation. Like any corporation, the goal is to make profit. They make profit when everyone is medicated.
To actually research a disorder like schizophrenia or bipolar to try and find the actual physical causes sad This would include checking EVERY mineral and vitamin in a large sample of affected individuals, looking at urine samples, looking at gut bacteria and enzymes, and a whole lot more) is extremely expensive, and with society's greed, no one's going to do these studies.

it's worst for the people with depression, anxiety, and anorexia nervosa in that the physical causes have been identified, yet they continue to be medicated on drugs to mask the symptoms, rather than to have the physical cause treated and their disorder cured.

[mirein meyun]

Kuroko with Pitbulls

Bipolar has been shown to be genetic as well. What in the world are you talking about?
Things like depression and anxiety has a genetic factor too.

I think you're having a difficulty differentiating the difference between nature and nurture.

Your phobia example is clearly nurture.
Schizophrenia is clearly nature.

That's why therapy works so well for treating phobia and that's why it can't treat schizophrenia.

Anyway, of course mental illnesses are psychical illnesses. Want to see some mri scans? Want to hear about neurotransmitters?

Now that I read your s**t, I'm going to bash you for saying my bipolar isn't real.
What the ******** was up with that disclaimer? Why did you even need to put that? Why'd you single out bipolar disorder?

Want to talk diet? I've had basically the same diet my entire life. My family all eats the shame shitty food. I am bipolar while none of them are. It's actually pretty naive that you'd suggest a good diet could settle down my mania. My goodness. It sounds like you've never met someone manic, or psychotic.

Lithium helps stimulate more neuron growth. It's not just masking symptoms, it's fixing the brain.

Can you not read or did you just base on the title without even bothering?

I said if a disorder is GENETIC that makes it a PHYSICAL disorder. And because they have found genes associated with Bipolar and Schizophrenia, this implies that they are PHYSICAL disorders with mental manifestations.


And I didn't say bipolar disorder wasn't real. I mental illness wasn't real, and things like Bipolar and Schizophrenia are physical disorders with mental manifestations. And that doctors will just treat your mental symptoms, rather than try and find the physical cause which goes on affecting your body.

Take the physical disorder PKU for example. This disorder manifested neurologically and mentally, and was a mental illness. It was blamed on the brain, just like bipolar and schizophrenia. Until one day, a doctor looked at their urine samples and now we know it is actually a disorder of the digestion system.

If a disorder is MENTAL that means it cannot be genetic, and can only be nature related. Your thoughts and views are determined on how you are raised, where you grow up, etc.
When we look at twin studies, where they are separated at birth for adoption, grow up in completely different environments and both develop schizophrenia, this shows that it is a physical disorder.

The medical community though knows they make more money prescribing medications that mask your symptoms rather than spending that money on research trying to find the actual physical cause of these mental illness.

Actually, the worst part is that they actually find the physical causes of depression, anxiety, and anorexia nervosa(which were extremely simple to fix), but still continue to prescribe drugs to mask the symptoms, because it is more profitable than curing the disorder/treating the actual physical cause.

It seems like you're having problems accepting that physical illness can cause extreme mental problems, and that your brain is part of your physical body and not something separate.


As for you and your family eating the same shitty diet, that is irrelevant.
1. because I said that was the cause of anxiety, not bipolar
2. dietary disorders are not necessarily based on what you eat. Use the PKU example again: people with this disorder are missing the enzyme that converts the amino acid phenylalanine into tyrosine. This causes toxic levels to accumulate in the body, and results in neurological and mental manifestation. Phenylalanine is found in a lot of foods, and even if you are eating extremely healthy, if you have this disorder, it will manifest mentally, since phenylalanine is an essential amino acid, and is found in meat, a lot of vegetables, potatoes, tomatoes, soy, wheat, and aspartame.
In the case that say schizophrenia was caused by a missing enzyme, you and your family could eat the same way, but if you're missing the enzyme(because of genetics or whatever) and they are not, you will have the mental manifestation of schizophrenia and they will not.



I never said your bipolar disorder wasn't real. I said it was a mental manifestation of an underlying physical disorder Your brain doesn't just randomly go between manic and depressive episodes with no cause. There is something physically wrong that causes this to happen.
When they test treatments, they see if a medication masks the symptoms. Like, "Oh? does this stop the manic/depression episodes?" without giving a ******** whether it's treating the cause or not.

[mirein meyun]

Eliot the Lustful

I don't really care what Schizophrenia is officially classified as, I only care about not feeling paranoid and shitty 24/7

Except for you're more like to stop feeling paranoid and shitty 24/7 if they were to treat the actual cause instead of giving you drugs to mask the symptoms.

it's like giving morphine to a cancer patient. It masks all the symptoms just fine, but that disease is still ravaging in your body.

[Wil the Delicious]

mirein meyun

Eliot the Lustful

I don't really care what Schizophrenia is officially classified as, I only care about not feeling paranoid and shitty 24/7

Except for you're more like to stop feeling paranoid and shitty 24/7 if they were to treat the actual cause instead of giving you drugs to mask the symptoms.

it's like giving morphine to a cancer patient. It masks all the symptoms just fine, but that disease is still ravaging in your body.

Exactly.
My antipsychotics didn't mask s**t. They just made me tired, angry, and I didn't want to eat. So I kinda did nothing all day.

[29Dreams]

mirein meyun

for the most part anyway.

Please read before bashing me saying your bipolar disorder is real

If a disorder is mental, it implies it is all in your head. If this were the case, such a disorder would be easy to cure.
Take phobias for example. This is a true mental illness, and is easily curable.

ex: My friend was extremely afraid of shellfish, both crustacean and molluscan. This was a learnt behaviour she got from home as someone in the family had a friend with an undiagnosed shellfish allergy who went out for shellfish one day and died.
So first thing we did with my friend to get her over her phobia was point out all the times she had accidentally drunk Mott's Clamato and not died. She didn't know there was shellfish in that.
Then we actually took her to an allergist to get her tested for shellfish allergy. She was negative.
After that we would force her to take bites of shrimp, mussels, and anything containing shellfish to show her she wouldn't die.
Her phobia is now gone. That is a mental disorder

Since disorders like bipolar, schizophrenia, and even depression cannot be "talked out of you" with reason, it shows these are not mental illness. The fact that twin studies have shown Schizophrenia to be GENETIC would imply it is not a mental illness.
What we have here are PHYSICAL disorders with UNKNOWN PHYSICAL CAUSES that present themselves with mental disturbances.




Do you ever remember your psychiatrist saying, "Mental disorders cause physical symptoms?"
Well, what if they wrong?
Physical symptoms that accompany mental illness are likely symptoms of the ACTUAL PHYSICAL disorder causing your mental illness.



A new study showed a correlation between anxiety disorders and food intolerances.
When your digestion system is in distress, your body releases adrenaline to help your stomach deal with digestion. By releases adrenaline, you get the increased heartbeat, and the fight-or-flight feeling associated with anxiety.
In other words, if you have an undiagnosed food intolerance, and you keep eating the substance, your stomach will always be in distress, and you will be constantly in fight-or-flight mode, and there is your anxiety disorder.
With the shitty diet of America, FODMAPs intolerance is becoming more common, thought to affect 33% of the population.
FODMAPs are short-chained carbohydrates found in beans, lentils, nuts, whole wheat, inulin, garlic, onions, oats, barley, potatoes, and fructose. While some people are born with this, you can develop it later in life by eating too much fructose. This is most commonly misdiagnosed as gluten-intolerance.



As for more profound disorders like schizophrenia which have been stably in existence for centuries, it is most likely a physical malfunction manifesting in the form of hallucinations and delusions etc.
A correlation between schizophrenia was found with wheat, but the pharmaceutical companies make more money prescribing drugs that MASK the symptoms rather than furthering studies that find the actual physical cause.

There is a chemical imbalance in the brain that causes many brain/mental disorders. No diet(food) or other physical issues can cause nor cure a chemical imbalance.

I am insulted. I have Schizophrenia and you say that it is not real? How dare you. I have lived(and still live) in a world of nightmares ever since I was three. And you say that it is not really a mental disorder...I have had tests done for so many years and I have had all the tests done. IT IS A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE! No other thing has caused it.

[mirein meyun]

AngelsDreadedFear

mirein meyun

for the most part anyway.

Please read before bashing me saying your bipolar disorder is real

If a disorder is mental, it implies it is all in your head. If this were the case, such a disorder would be easy to cure.
Take phobias for example. This is a true mental illness, and is easily curable.

ex: My friend was extremely afraid of shellfish, both crustacean and molluscan. This was a learnt behaviour she got from home as someone in the family had a friend with an undiagnosed shellfish allergy who went out for shellfish one day and died.
So first thing we did with my friend to get her over her phobia was point out all the times she had accidentally drunk Mott's Clamato and not died. She didn't know there was shellfish in that.
Then we actually took her to an allergist to get her tested for shellfish allergy. She was negative.
After that we would force her to take bites of shrimp, mussels, and anything containing shellfish to show her she wouldn't die.
Her phobia is now gone. That is a mental disorder

Since disorders like bipolar, schizophrenia, and even depression cannot be "talked out of you" with reason, it shows these are not mental illness. The fact that twin studies have shown Schizophrenia to be GENETIC would imply it is not a mental illness.
What we have here are PHYSICAL disorders with UNKNOWN PHYSICAL CAUSES that present themselves with mental disturbances.




Do you ever remember your psychiatrist saying, "Mental disorders cause physical symptoms?"
Well, what if they wrong?
Physical symptoms that accompany mental illness are likely symptoms of the ACTUAL PHYSICAL disorder causing your mental illness.



A new study showed a correlation between anxiety disorders and food intolerances.
When your digestion system is in distress, your body releases adrenaline to help your stomach deal with digestion. By releases adrenaline, you get the increased heartbeat, and the fight-or-flight feeling associated with anxiety.
In other words, if you have an undiagnosed food intolerance, and you keep eating the substance, your stomach will always be in distress, and you will be constantly in fight-or-flight mode, and there is your anxiety disorder.
With the shitty diet of America, FODMAPs intolerance is becoming more common, thought to affect 33% of the population.
FODMAPs are short-chained carbohydrates found in beans, lentils, nuts, whole wheat, inulin, garlic, onions, oats, barley, potatoes, and fructose. While some people are born with this, you can develop it later in life by eating too much fructose. This is most commonly misdiagnosed as gluten-intolerance.



As for more profound disorders like schizophrenia which have been stably in existence for centuries, it is most likely a physical malfunction manifesting in the form of hallucinations and delusions etc.
A correlation between schizophrenia was found with wheat, but the pharmaceutical companies make more money prescribing drugs that MASK the symptoms rather than furthering studies that find the actual physical cause.

There is a chemical imbalance in the brain that causes many brain/mental disorders. No diet(food) or other physical issues can cause nor cure a chemical imbalance.

I am insulted. I have Schizophrenia and you say that it is not real? How dare you. I have lived(and still live) in a world of nightmares ever since I was three. And you say that it is not really a mental disorder...I have had tests done for so many years and I have had all the tests done. IT IS A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE! No other thing has caused it.

I didn't say it wasn't real. I said it has a physical cause.

And as for the diet thing, I said that was related to specifically anxiety, unless you're suggesting anxiety and schizophrenia are the same disorder. . .

As for the wheat thing, there are already many nutritional and digestive disorders that are linked to causing "mental" illness.

The most common is PKU, which was treated as a mental disorder for the longest time until a doctor decided to look at the urine samples of sufferers of PKU and realized it was actually a digestive disorder in that people with this disorder are missing an enzyme. Because of this discovery, instead of living a shitty life full of extremely inhibiting mental and neurological problems, this disorder is tested for a birth, and if you have, you are put on an extremely strict diet from birth and develop normally.

Then we have Wilson's Disease, which actually presents the exact same symptoms as Schizophrenia, but is caused by your body storing too much copper.

I don't know why it is so hard for people, mentally ill or not, to understand that your brain is part of your body and is a physical object. If it is malfunctioning, such as with hallucinations, delusions, etc. . .that is a PHYSICAL disorder, and physical disorders have physical causes.

Do you know how neurotransmitters are formed?
You get amino acids from foods you eat, and they are then synthesized either into neurotransmitters, or into other amino acids which are then synthesized into neurotransmitters. If there is any kind of problem along that line, whether you are eating poorly, you are missing an enzyme, you have an intestinal or liver disorder, you will end up with a chemical disorder in your brain.

YOU ARE SAYING THAT CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IS NOT A PHYSICAL CAUSE WHEN A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IS ENTIRELY PHYSICAL.
Mental disorders are physical disorders with physical causes with mental manifestations.


A brain tumor can cause psychosis. Would you tell a cancer patient that his disorder is mental because all his symptoms are mental, and then put him on antipsychotics?
The medication may mask his symptoms, but he's still got a brain tumor raging in his brain.


We do not know the physical cause of Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder yet. It's not that they do not have physical causes, it's that we don't know what the cause is yet.

The worst is for people with depression, anxiety, and anorexia nervosa as the cause has been found, but treatment doesn't reflect that cause in the least bit.

[29Dreams]

But you did mention schizophrenia.

[mirein meyun]

AngelsDreadedFear

But you did mention schizophrenia.

I mention schizophrenia and bipolar because they are the 2 main mental disorders that have been constant over time, and where the physical cause is unknown.

What I am saying is it is easy and extremely profitable for doctors to keep prescribing anti-psychotics that mask the symptoms but do to treat the actual problem. Similarly, if you have cancer and I give you morphine, the morphine treats your symptoms but it does not treat the problem.

The medical system fails people with mental illness that they automatically just start prescribing drugs and telling you you're mentally ill rather than trying to figure out what is actually wrong with you.

There is a physical cause of schizophrenia. We don't know what it is. The way our medical system works, we're probably not going to find out for a long time.

The worst I say is for anorexia, depression, and anxiety. We know the physical causes of these; we prescribe drugs to mask problems rather than to treat the problem.

For anorexia nervosa, you think you're fat so you decide to go on a diet. The diet you choose is low-calorie and therefore lacking nutrition. As a result you develop a zinc deficiency. The symptoms of zinc deficiency are actually the same as anorexia nervosa: obsessive thoughts, weight loss, lack of appetite, inability to eat. Because it causes all of these things, you continue to not eat because you're not hungry. Because you're not eating, you're zinc gets lower. It's a cycle. They've known this was the cause since the late 70s and have done many studies that have proven it.

Anxiety and depression are both caused by diet and food intolerances and also scent allergies.