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Dangerous Lunatic

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1 no, I'm irreligious.
2 No I believe the majority of religion is abusive controlling oppressive and violent.
3 one which Yahweh cannot get into.
4 I don't believe in any god because I see no evidences for them. If you mean Yahweh specifically, two things, first the yahweh originally worshiped by the Jews was a henotheistic for who was the son of El and part of a pantheon. There are many parts of the bible showing this. Secondly, after reading the bible closely I saw that Yahweh ordered genocides, the deaths of children, sexual assault(even rewarding it) he taunted, made people suffer. So even if Yahweh existed, I would not worship him. And there's nothing wrong with homosexuality.

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1. I was a Christian, but I recently deconverted.
2. No.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matt 10:34.
Religion has been the source of so many wars, it would be a lie to consider it to be peaceful.
3. If heaven existed, I'd just love a place with a chess board and other games and other like-minded people. None of that sit-on-a-cloud-and-praise-a-god-forever-and-ever junk.
4. I stopped believing because the bible was contradicting and reads stupidly at times. The morals addressed are outdated and it eventually sounded like stone-age mythology.

It was easy for me, since my church took the bible literally. All I needed to get was a high school education.
5. Things will turn for the better if religion is abolished, I think. The least religious countries are the happiest (see the scandinavians!) and science is taught in schools. I'm australian so I really can't comprehend the bible belt, but the fact that abstinence only sex education is taught there is ludicrous, especially since the pregnancies rate of the bible belt are disproportionately high too. People should rely on statistics in this case. But welp, I'm going off on a tangent.

Religion has limited and oppressed a lot of people and I personally find that really bad. I don't think we're going to be free from religion any time soon though, simply because there's too many people who do believe.

Edit: I read the last bit of your post. I'll clarify: you cannot make anybody gay. You can make them realise they were gay, but you cannot change their preference in the same way nobody made you straight. Instances of homosexuality has been found in so many other species, it's actually just the human race who frowns deeply on it.

Thus, you cannot make a gay person straight. By the sword, you could scare him into living life like a straight person, but in the end, he will have no attraction to a female partner. It's like being left-handed. It's just the way people are programmed.

Don't force him to tell a preacher. Let him figure things out at his own pace, coming out of the closet is a scarily hard thing to do, especially if they're in a religious family.
Sora Uzuma
Btw, answer these questions.
1. Do you believe in a religion.


Laoism.

Sora Uzuma
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.


Some religions are peaceful, some are oppressive.

Sora Uzuma
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin


Skittles for everyone!

Sora Uzuma
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?


I'm not an atheist.

Sora Uzuma
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?


People will form personal religions and stop using religion as justification for tribalism.
Sora Uzuma
( Sorry for the grammar. Rushing to go to church. o no)

As a young follower of God (a.k.a Christian), I was rised in a good, religious home. I notices that this today's society is turning away from God, for example:
3. Science


I noticed you're using the fruit of science (technology) to post this.

Anyway, onto the questions.

1. Nope. I am irreligious.
2. Not necessarily peaceful, no.
3. Free of religious nutjobs. No suppression of science or new ideas. No hating on gays or women or members of different faiths, or even those without faith.

4. this and this
Short version: I read the Bible. The whole thing. Not just the verses chosen by my pastor. And I was appalled. Also could never blindly believe (or what you call, find faith). Researched other religions, even outside of the Abrahamic tree, from middle school until senior year, decided I don't need religion in my life since I actually realized I was atheist in early middle school. And me researching biblical history only further destroyed any future faith I may have found, at least in monotheism.

5. The entire world? Soon? No. And even if we did, not much would change. Religion, if anything, is a catalyst for hate and oppression. Take away religion, and we'll find something else to use as an excuse.

Lastly, you cannot make someone gay.
And sure, you read that in your Bible, but the Bible you read is a heavily edited copy. No original copy exists to date, only incomplete manuscripts. So take that into account before basing your moral decisions, like homosexuality, on the Bible.
plushik
1. I was a Christian, but I recently deconverted.
2. No.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matt 10:34.
Religion has been the source of so many wars, it would be a lie to consider it to be peaceful.
3. If heaven existed, I'd just love a place with a chess board and other games and other like-minded people. None of that sit-on-a-cloud-and-praise-a-god-forever-and-ever junk.
4. I stopped believing because the bible was contradicting and reads stupidly at times. The morals addressed are outdated and it eventually sounded like stone-age mythology.

It was easy for me, since my church took the bible literally. All I needed to get was a high school education.
5. Things will turn for the better if religion is abolished, I think. The least religious countries are the happiest (see the scandinavians!) and science is taught in schools. I'm australian so I really can't comprehend the bible belt, but the fact that abstinence only sex education is taught there is ludicrous, especially since the pregnancies rate of the bible belt are disproportionately high too. People should rely on statistics in this case. But welp, I'm going off on a tangent.

Religion has limited and oppressed a lot of people and I personally find that really bad. I don't think we're going to be free from religion any time soon though, simply because there's too many people who do believe.

Edit: I read the last bit of your post. I'll clarify: you cannot make anybody gay. You can make them realise they were gay, but you cannot change their preference in the same way nobody made you straight. Instances of homosexuality has been found in so many other species, it's actually just the human race who frowns deeply on it.

Thus, you cannot make a gay person straight. By the sword, you could scare him into living life like a straight person, but in the end, he will have no attraction to a female partner. It's like being left-handed. It's just the way people are programmed.

Don't force him to tell a preacher. Let him figure things out at his own pace, coming out of the closet is a scarily hard thing to do, especially if they're in a religious family.
I don't know how to like...quote one part but he said he had an interest in girls. I told him that your just confused and don't believe that you (him) is really gay, just had a bad past. He didn't have nothing against girls, but it seems he was trying to have a special relationship with a dude because he don't have a father. I told him that (or I think) he's gay for the wrong reasons.
Note that: he is VERYYYYY religious. He just never did learn about the gay part. Thanks for the opinion tho.

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Sorry for the length. Hopefully it's worth it though.
Sora Uzuma
( Sorry for the grammar. Rushing to go to church. o no)

As a young follower of God (a.k.a Christian), I was rised in a good, religious home. I notices that this today's society is turning away from God, for example:
1. Doesn't believe in him anymore
2. Homosexual
3. Science
4. Too selfish to think they don't need in God
or
1. Is a atheist that just encourage people that he isn't real, a myth.

Hey now, stopping you right there. Science in and of itself is not "turning away from God." There are, in fact, many religious scientists. One doesn't have to take the Bible as literal truth, and whether or not the events happened as they are claimed to have happened (they didn't) doesn't necessarily disprove the existence of God, or the principles of morality any given religion may face.

I'd take all the other points in turn, but it might take too long. Suffice it to say, there are gay Christians too, and not everybody is "selfish" for not believing in God. Hell, some believers may actually be more selfish than nobelievers, because they only really believe in hopes that they're rewarded in the afterlife.

Sora Uzuma
So I was saying. People stop using the bible. For any of you, I'd you go to church and sing doesn't make you a true believer. You need to read the bible! Or at least look some parts of the bible and have a connection with God.

Um... what about the people who lost their faith because they read the Bible?
Sora Uzuma
My point of view, I believe God is real. Yes, I love science but I believe that God created everything. I can see wonders of his grace that he had blessed me with. And with the bible, I am still learning more about it.

Aha! You've proven my point about science.

Sora Uzuma
Back to society, I see alot of atheist said that, "He isn't real" or "religion causes too much war." Yet, all most all of them who says it lives in a bad home or had some bad memories from their childhood. I just don't get it!

...The hell? What makes you think most atheists come from bad homes or bad childhoods?

Sora Uzuma
People said that the bible is outdated. I said, NO! The bible is ahead of our time. Some parts of the bible said some stuffs about slavery. Most people said, it doesn't really fit today's world. There is still slaves in the world. Even if you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

The Bible is outdated. Deal with it. It doesn't mean it's not a historically important piece of literature, but there are a lot of things that just don't stand the test of time. Women's rights, the aforementioned slavery thing, whether it's okay to kill someone for what are, in today's society, minor slights...

Sora Uzuma
Overall, is people just being to selfish? God knew that some part of our time on this earth, people is going to be too selfish that they don't need God.

Like I said, people are selfish even when they believe. That's just how people are. Same with the war thing you mentioned, it's not just religion, it's people who cause war. But it's also people who make charities, and rally for peace, or civil rights. So I guess you can take the good with the bad.

Sora Uzuma
So let me hear about your opinions. First, don't diss me of the lack of info, I'm just a kid (14 years old.)

Yeah, I was stupid at that age. In ten years, I'll probably say I was stupid now.

Okay, time for your questions, sorry for the detour.

Sora Uzuma
1. Do you believe in a religion.

Um... yes. But it's a rough time placing it into "theism" or "atheism" considering the harsh, definite terms people have placed on what a "theos" would actually be. I mean, animist-pantheism sort of straddles the line, in most circles.
Sora Uzuma
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.

Um... yes. Like I said, the problem is people. Both the people who write down the concepts, and the people who follow the bad parts but not the good parts, and ignore the really bad parts when it comes to an argument about how the religion itself is bad.
Sora Uzuma
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin

Eh? I'm actually kinda hoping for a 1-UP.
Sora Uzuma
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?

Oh, I guess this doesn't really apply... unless someone thinks I count as an atheist... um, well, I'm not CHRISTIAN because a lot of it started to not really make sense to me. I mean, I could look at Hindu beliefs, and see a lot of the same principles as Christianity, but explained better. Which I guess got me interested in the Eastern faiths.
Sora Uzuma
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?

Nah, humans are superstitious and imaginative by nature. We'll always have some concept of divinity.

Sora Uzuma
My friend and I are fighting. I made my best friend gay and he lives in a religious family. I asked God for forgiveness and my other friend told me to change him . I can't really changed a person, but I tried shaking him out.

Wait... how the hell did you make your friend gay?
Sora Uzuma
I said, I'm not judging so I left it. When I read the bible, it said homosexuals can't go into the kingdom of heaven. I was scared and I felt sad. I leave it as this:
You either live a great life or choose to follow God.

I don't remember any part of the Bible that specifically says "Homosexuals can't go into the Kingdom of Heaven." But I do recall something about forgiveness, and "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It's not your place to say whether someone is right or wrong in their way of living.
Sora Uzuma
I don't want atheist to answer this! (Sorry! But I want a truely believer in him.) btw, I told him to tell a preacher! He want to tell me but yet it's stressing me out! I can't take it!!!!!

I hope I don't count as an atheist in that part then. Food for thought: If we are all God's children, and He loves us anyway, then why would He send someone to Hell for loving someone of their own gender if they still believe in Him? Just saying.
Thata what I said. Well I found shocking things in the bible about homosexuals. I: it's like everyone said its outdated. But god's words are never outdated.
And it's a long story....but he's dating a girl now. XP
Xiam
Sorry for the length. Hopefully it's worth it though.
Sora Uzuma
( Sorry for the grammar. Rushing to go to church. o no)

As a young follower of God (a.k.a Christian), I was rised in a good, religious home. I notices that this today's society is turning away from God, for example:
1. Doesn't believe in him anymore
2. Homosexual
3. Science
4. Too selfish to think they don't need in God
or
1. Is a atheist that just encourage people that he isn't real, a myth.

Hey now, stopping you right there. Science in and of itself is not "turning away from God." There are, in fact, many religious scientists. One doesn't have to take the Bible as literal truth, and whether or not the events happened as they are claimed to have happened (they didn't) doesn't necessarily disprove the existence of God, or the principles of morality any given religion may face.

I'd take all the other points in turn, but it might take too long. Suffice it to say, there are gay Christians too, and not everybody is "selfish" for not believing in God. Hell, some believers may actually be more selfish than nobelievers, because they only really believe in hopes that they're rewarded in the afterlife.

Sora Uzuma
So I was saying. People stop using the bible. For any of you, I'd you go to church and sing doesn't make you a true believer. You need to read the bible! Or at least look some parts of the bible and have a connection with God.

Um... what about the people who lost their faith because they read the Bible?
Sora Uzuma
My point of view, I believe God is real. Yes, I love science but I believe that God created everything. I can see wonders of his grace that he had blessed me with. And with the bible, I am still learning more about it.

Aha! You've proven my point about science.

Sora Uzuma
Back to society, I see alot of atheist said that, "He isn't real" or "religion causes too much war." Yet, all most all of them who says it lives in a bad home or had some bad memories from their childhood. I just don't get it!

...The hell? What makes you think most atheists come from bad homes or bad childhoods?

Sora Uzuma
People said that the bible is outdated. I said, NO! The bible is ahead of our time. Some parts of the bible said some stuffs about slavery. Most people said, it doesn't really fit today's world. There is still slaves in the world. Even if you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

The Bible is outdated. Deal with it. It doesn't mean it's not a historically important piece of literature, but there are a lot of things that just don't stand the test of time. Women's rights, the aforementioned slavery thing, whether it's okay to kill someone for what are, in today's society, minor slights...

Sora Uzuma
Overall, is people just being to selfish? God knew that some part of our time on this earth, people is going to be too selfish that they don't need God.

Like I said, people are selfish even when they believe. That's just how people are. Same with the war thing you mentioned, it's not just religion, it's people who cause war. But it's also people who make charities, and rally for peace, or civil rights. So I guess you can take the good with the bad.

Sora Uzuma
So let me hear about your opinions. First, don't diss me of the lack of info, I'm just a kid (14 years old.)

Yeah, I was stupid at that age. In ten years, I'll probably say I was stupid now.

Okay, time for your questions, sorry for the detour.

Sora Uzuma
1. Do you believe in a religion.

Um... yes. But it's a rough time placing it into "theism" or "atheism" considering the harsh, definite terms people have placed on what a "theos" would actually be. I mean, animist-pantheism sort of straddles the line, in most circles.
Sora Uzuma
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.

Um... yes. Like I said, the problem is people. Both the people who write down the concepts, and the people who follow the bad parts but not the good parts, and ignore the really bad parts when it comes to an argument about how the religion itself is bad.
Sora Uzuma
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin

Eh? I'm actually kinda hoping for a 1-UP.
Sora Uzuma
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?

Oh, I guess this doesn't really apply... unless someone thinks I count as an atheist... um, well, I'm not CHRISTIAN because a lot of it started to not really make sense to me. I mean, I could look at Hindu beliefs, and see a lot of the same principles as Christianity, but explained better. Which I guess got me interested in the Eastern faiths.
Sora Uzuma
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?

Nah, humans are superstitious and imaginative by nature. We'll always have some concept of divinity.

Sora Uzuma
My friend and I are fighting. I made my best friend gay and he lives in a religious family. I asked God for forgiveness and my other friend told me to change him . I can't really changed a person, but I tried shaking him out.

Wait... how the hell did you make your friend gay?
Sora Uzuma
I said, I'm not judging so I left it. When I read the bible, it said homosexuals can't go into the kingdom of heaven. I was scared and I felt sad. I leave it as this:
You either live a great life or choose to follow God.

I don't remember any part of the Bible that specifically says "Homosexuals can't go into the Kingdom of Heaven." But I do recall something about forgiveness, and "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It's not your place to say whether someone is right or wrong in their way of living.
Sora Uzuma
I don't want atheist to answer this! (Sorry! But I want a truely believer in him.) btw, I told him to tell a preacher! He want to tell me but yet it's stressing me out! I can't take it!!!!!

I hope I don't count as an atheist in that part then. Food for thought: If we are all God's children, and He loves us anyway, then why would He send someone to Hell for loving someone of their own gender if they still believe in Him? Just saying.

Magical Investigator

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Sora Uzuma
Thata what I said. Well I found shocking things in the bible about homosexuals. I: it's like everyone said its outdated. But god's words are never outdated.
And it's a long story....but he's dating a girl now. XP

Teenagers are weird.

The thing about the "outdated" thing is, though, God doesn't have words. Because God doesn't have a mouth, or fingers to hold a pen. Like I'm sure I said already... people. They're not God's words, there the words of people who believe in God. And those people will inject their own opinions. Opinions that can become outdated.

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Sora Uzuma

1. Do you believe in a religion.
Yes
Quote:
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.
Any element of tribalism is going to have downsides.
Edit: Considering that out of 1700 some wars recorded in an Encyclopedia of wars and that only 123 of them are for religious reasons, it seems like religion has a pretty good track record but of course has some downsides.
Quote:
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin
Heaven isn't my goal so I really haven't thought about it much. Seems like it would be more of a state of being than a place though.
Quote:
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?
When I bordered on being an atheist, it was the lack of experience to confirm Christianity to me and other Christians insisting that the Old Testament still applied. I had my experience and know now that the Old Testament doesn't apply.

Quote:
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?
Depends on what you mean by religion. People are hardwired to be tribalistic, I don't see religion disappearing anytime soon just adopting a new image and disguise.

Quote:
Also!
My friend and I are fighting. I made my best friend gay and he lives in a religious family. I asked God for forgiveness and my other friend told me to change him . I can't really changed a person, but I tried shaking him out.
I said, I'm not judging so I left it. When I read the bible, it said homosexuals can't go into the kingdom of heaven. I was scared and I felt sad. I leave it as this:
You either live a great life or choose to follow God.
I don't want atheist to answer this! (Sorry! But I want a truely believer in him.) btw, I told him to tell a preacher! He want to tell me but yet it's stressing me out! I can't take it!!!!!
Homosexuality is not a sin. Spread the word.

Adored Admirer

Sora Uzuma
1. Do you believe in a religion.


No. I am a former Christian, but I have taken an eclectic approach. I still believe in the god of Israel.

Sora Uzuma
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.


I do not believe religion is peaceful any more than I do believe philosophy is peaceful. It is how individuals use it.

Sora Uzuma
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin


It is a house where there is a great feast, and I am in the company of the gods, the philosophers, and great men and women.

Sora Uzuma
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?


I am definitely not an atheist. It sounds boring.

Sora Uzuma
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?


I think religion will last as long as humans are around. Will the religions that exist today still be there in the future? I don't know.

Sora Uzuma
Also!
My friend and I are fighting. I made my best friend gay and he lives in a religious family. I asked God for forgiveness and my other friend told me to change him . I can't really changed a person, but I tried shaking him out.
I said, I'm not judging so I left it. When I read the bible, it said homosexuals can't go into the kingdom of heaven. I was scared and I felt sad. I leave it as this:
You either live a great life or choose to follow God.
I don't want atheist to answer this! (Sorry! But I want a truely believer in him.) btw, I told him to tell a preacher! He want to tell me but yet it's stressing me out! I can't take it!!!!!


I don't think you made your best friend gay. The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.
Good post.

Many atheists live in happier homes than Christians by the way. You'll see this as you get out in life. Unless you just assume that by not being a Christian they are hateful dy default... I see people do that a lot.

1: I believe in the power of religion because I've seen it work. Now, for better or for worse is another matter entirely.

2: I believe religion to be generally peaceful. Why? Although people may cite a few verses concerning the violence of religious views, they do not seem to represent the whole of those religious views. I find the majority of scriptures and sacred texts of most religions to be quite peaceful and even functional.

3: I don't have dream houses in imaginary places. I do however dream about what kind of home I'd like for myself here on Earth.

4: I don't believe in the God from the bible for many of the same reasons I don't believe in Mother Goose or mythical unicorns. I always figure in one needs imaginary friends to see the good in life, then their life is not so good as to be telling me how to live mine.

5: I think religion will continue to remain pervasive for the most part. Religion appeals to many people's personal desires and it supports cultural development.
1. Do you believe in a religion. Yes i do, I'm Muslim biggrin
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image. I think it is the people that are bad yes, but they misuse religion.
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin Whatever God gives me but the descriptions of heaven in the Quran are pretty awesome. biggrin
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad?
I don't think people will give up their religions.

Aged Lunatic

Sora Uzuma


As a young follower of God (a.k.a Christian), I was rised in a good, religious home. I notices that this today's society is turning away from God, for example:
1. Doesn't believe in him anymore
2. Homosexual
3. Science
4. Too selfish to think they don't need in God
or
1. Is a atheist that just encourage people that he isn't real, a myth.


Welcome to living in a pluaristic country. Terribly sorry that not everyone agrees with you.

Quote:
So I was saying. People stop using the bible. For any of you, I'd you go to church and sing doesn't make you a true believer. You need to read the bible! Or at least look some parts of the bible and have a connection with God.


Reading the Bible was part of the problem. Funny how that works once you sit down and really read the verses and scripture that your family put you up to shouting about in tent revivals, eh?


Quote:
My point of view, I believe God is real. Yes, I love science but I believe that God created everything. I can see wonders of his grace that he had blessed me with. And with the bible, I am still learning more about it.


Science=Process, not a belief system.

Quote:
Back to society, I see alot of atheist said that, "He isn't real" or "religion causes too much war." Yet, all most all of them who says it lives in a bad home or had some bad memories from their childhood. I just don't get it!


What don't you get?

Quote:
People said that the bible is outdated. I said, NO! The bible is ahead of our time. Some parts of the bible said some stuffs about slavery.


Yes. It approves of it.

Quote:
Most people said, it doesn't really fit today's world. There is still slaves in the world. Even if you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.


I ain't following you....

Quote:
So let me hear about your opinions. First, don't diss me of the lack of info, I'm just a kid (14 years old.)


Sorry kid, you stepped into the arena, so don't expect the gladiators to pull punches on you just because you're young. Heck, we're going to use that as a sticking point, namely the fact that you aren't out in the real world yet and are still under mommy and daddy's roof.

Quote:
1. Do you believe in a religion.

Deist.

Quote:
2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.


Depends on the religion.

Quote:
3. Tell about your dream house in heaven. biggrin


My "heaven" doesn't include a house at all. The land inhabited will be so primally glorious that you wouldn't want one.

Quote:
4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?


Not room here to elaborate, but I ditched Christianity because the image of God presented didn't jive with the actions, especially on the subject of original sin and sin nature.

Quote:
5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world?


Not bloody likely.

Quote:
My friend and I are fighting. I made my best friend gay


Your friend was already gay. Not really possible for you to "make" him gay.

Quote:
and he lives in a religious family. I asked God for forgiveness and my other friend told me to change him . I can't really changed a person, but I tried shaking him out.
I said, I'm not judging so I left it. When I read the bible, it said homosexuals can't go into the kingdom of heaven. I was scared and I felt sad. I leave it as this:
You either live a great life or choose to follow God.
I don't want atheist to answer this! (Sorry! But I want a truely believer in him.) btw, I told him to tell a preacher! He want to tell me but yet it's stressing me out! I can't take it!!!!!


You can't make someone gay. Calm down and chill.

Lonely Friend

1. Do you believe in a religion.

I am religious, yes. I'm not a Christian though.


2. Do you believe that religion is peaceful but some people causes upon a bad image.

I believe that religion can be peaceful. I believe that all religions have extremism to a certain degree.

3. Tell about your dream house in heaven.

I don't believe in heaven. I believe in reincarnation.

4. If your a atheist, why do you either quit or don't believe?
I'm not an atheist, but I stopped going to the Christian church because my heart told me it was not my path.

5. Do you think that soon we will live in a no religious
world? Will things turn to be for the good or bad

No. We never will completely. And time will tell.

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