D-did you just bring up Anita? gonk
I can already feel the incoming s**t storm miles away. Toxi what have you done.
Anyways, I don't agree with her like, 80% of the time, but you have to admit. All the death and rape threats she receives reeeeally dosen't make the video game industry or fandom look better at all in any light. I mean, there's a reason why the "lazy neckbeard mouth breather" video gamer stereotypes exists.
(And yes, this is coming from someone who does play games and has encountered said mouth breather on more then one occasion.)
But yes, I am tired of how of so many games dont have a main, or even a single female character. If you don't see your group represented you feel excluded. It's harder for people in the majority/non discriminated groups to understand how that feels.
So I honestly am just perplexed at why so many people are so angry over these people complaining. If they don't have the numbers they aren't going to be able to change how video games are made, and if they do have the numbers and video games are changed to fit what they want, then who are you to complain about the way games are made? This is the very criticism made towards these people complaining, so it would be hypocritical to complain if video games are no longer made the way you like them.
You missed the important one in the middle: getting or maintaining the numbers.
Those concerned with changing the industry so it better represents women need to make the numbers if the are to be successful. It is the first step towards states where they have the numbers to make what they desire, both in terms of production and players. By making there arguments, they are trying to build a future state where people want to make and buy games with better representations of women.
For those who don't want games to change, there arguments are threatening the games the like so much. If those trying to improve representations of women in video games are successful, the base for terrible depictions of women, and the culture associated with it, will gradually eroded to one extent or another. Game creators will want to make games with better representations of women. Players, to a greater extent, will demand games which are not demeaning to women. At a certain point, these things will start to feed of each other, creating a situation where misogynistic games and culture get relegated to a gradually smaller subset of gaming.
So those who don't want games to change cannot afford arguments about games needing better representation to be taken seriously. To maintain the status quo, they have to ensure people are not influenced to demand games portray women better (and, by extension, that games threat women better). They have to maintain the number of people content with misogynistic depictions and treatment of women.
Both sides, therefore, care a great deal. What is happening now will define whether or to each group is successful in their goals at a future point.
Playing Candy Crush and Farmville does not a gamer make. Women make up 50% of gamers only if you count shitty micro transaction facebook games.
Before anyone takes what this person says and misses the entire ******** point, let me explain why this fact is important.
What this user is pointing out is that people who play Candy Crush and Farmville are not necessarily the same kind of people who actually buy video games on a frequent basis.
When it comes to this discussion and whether women are represented or not or whatever, what matters is the demographics of the people who actually pay for and buy games on a regular basis. It is that target market that matters, the people that video games businesses do not pay attention to are people who don't pay for games on a regular basis even if they do play farmville or whatever.
And the point is that the study that claims women are 50% of gamers are just talking about people who play games, they are not doing what they should have done, which is to figure out the demographics of people who actually pay for video games on a regular basis. If a study actually did that the female demographic would be much lower than 50% because the fact of the matter is more men than women are willing to give their discretionary income towards video games.
Not just that, but a large portion of women who do buy console/PC games are often doing so for their kids, boyfriends, and husbands, since a majority of consumer spending in the US comes from women.
This Is NoMercy:
I agree the rape and death threats are bullshit. What's worse is they give her credibility. But being entirely fair, they come from a handful of raging basement dwellers, and I doubt most gamers condone or appreciate it.
[
I agree the rape and death threats are bullshit. What's worse is they give her credibility. But being entirely fair, they come from a handful of raging basement dwellers, and I doubt most gamers condone or appreciate it.
Every guy gamer I've met with a very small exception that's talked about this either:
A.) dosen't care
B.) thinks she deserves it, or
C.) has actually sent said death/rape threat
Also, if you just google her, you'll get a lot of material. It's really not a just a few guys. She literally has an entire hatedom.
So I honestly am just perplexed at why so many people are so angry over these people complaining. If they don't have the numbers they aren't going to be able to change how video games are made, and if they do have the numbers and video games are changed to fit what they want, then who are you to complain about the way games are made? This is the very criticism made towards these people complaining, so it would be hypocritical to complain if video games are no longer made the way you like them.
You missed the important one in the middle: getting or maintaining the numbers.
Those concerned with changing the industry so it better represents women need to make the numbers if the are to be successful. It is the first step towards states where they have the numbers to make what they desire, both in terms of production and players. By making there arguments, they are trying to build a future state where people want to make and buy games with better representations of women.
For those who don't want games to change, there arguments are threatening the games the like so much. If those trying to improve representations of women in video games are successful, the base for terrible depictions of women, and the culture associated with it, will gradually eroded to one extent or another. Game creators will want to make games with better representations of women. Players, to a greater extent, will demand games which are not demeaning to women. At a certain point, these things will start to feed of each other, creating a situation where misogynistic games and culture get relegated to a gradually smaller subset of gaming.
So those who don't want games to change cannot afford arguments about games needing better representation to be taken seriously. To maintain the status quo, they have to ensure people are not influenced to demand games portray women better (and, by extension, that games threat women better). They have to maintain the number of people content with misogynistic depictions and treatment of women.
Both sides, therefore, care a great deal. What is happening now will define whether or to each group is successful in their goals at a future point.
I think most male gamers are more worried that the shift will lean in a direction of videogames not being violent, or there being no attractive women in games, or games being laced with political messages rather than simply being about blowing s**t up, ect.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo where the entire storyline is about Master Chief learning to deal with his new overweight female lesbian superior officer and come to grips with his inner racism and misogyny. They want to play as Master Chief crushing the skulls of aliens, explosions, and blue/purple blood everywhere.
Nobody wants to learn about the horrors of human sex trafficking while playing GTA, instead they wanna role hard like a real gangsta.
Literally all men really want to do while playing games is just that:play games. If they want gratuitous gore and violence, those are the games they buy. If they want fanservice in the form of DD women in skimpy outfits, those are the games they buy. If they want immersive storylines and roleplaying, those are the games they buy.
When women complain about their portrayal in videogames as of today, they are complaining about the way women are portrayed in something that wasn't even made for them. Most all of these games were made for men of varying ages. They are made to target men. When women complain about it, they are complaining entirely about what men like in their leisure content. When women want that changed, to men, it sounds like women are saying "you aren't allowed to have what you want. " .
Ignoring entirely the strong portrayals of women in games, or the insane disposability and objectification of men in games minus the player, it doesn't help that when shown "feminist oriented games" like "Gone Home" or "Depression Quest" the games themselves are utterly terrible compared to even the first super mario games.
If women are such a large demographic and companies are refusing to cater to them, women should make their own games, cash in, and change the industry through competition. Not b***h like little princesses that the boys won't let them in their clubhouse and demand that the adults change the rules.
[
If women are such a large demographic and companies are refusing to cater to them, women should make their own games, cash in, and change the industry through competition.
Did it never occur to you that women do make their own games? Or that the video game industry is actually kinda hard to get into in the first place?
Also, just because you're a women working on a game, dosen't mean you have full control over every aspect. If you want a main female character, but someone of a higher position says no, you can't do much about it.
Quote:
Not b***h like little princesses that the boys won't let them in their clubhouse and demand that the adults change the rules. ]
Seriously. neutral
Was that really called for.
Really now.
Really.
Also, “it sure would be nice if I wasn’t treated like s**t while enjoying the games I play” =/= "I must be catered to in every video game starting now."
Ugh, I'm suddenly remembering why I hate discussing this topic with guys.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo where the entire storyline is about Master Chief learning to deal with his new overweight female lesbian superior officer and come to grips with his inner racism and misogyny.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo regardless.
Feminists need to realize what I'm sure men already know. Video games are wish fulfilment. They're escapism. They're not real life.
No guy loads up a game of say, God of War and says, "you know, I don't think I feel comfortable playing this, Kratos isn't really an accurate representation of myself. He's so overly sexualized with his bulging muscles and lack of clothing".
******** yes I will play as the sorceress in Dragon's Crown. Not a single part of me doesn't enjoy playing as a cute as ******** girl, with massive breasts who kills the s**t out of things. If I don't know the characters of a new fighting game I'll always go for the hottest looking girls first, and I have waisted so much time downloading mods for Elder Scrolls games.
Why would I want to play as some frumpy, average girl in the things I use to escape from reality?
I agree with any concerns about online communities, but I mostly steer clear of them aside from a couple mmo's and that responsibility is really in the hands of parents to teach their twelve year olds not to be complete shitbags and also not buy them microphones. Because that's mostly the worst of it I've seen aside from the occasional basement dweller.
Did it never occur to you that women do make their own games? Or that the video game industry is actually kinda hard to get into in the first place?
Also, just because you're a women working on a game, dosen't mean you have full control over every aspect. If you want a main female character, but someone of a higher position says no, you can't do much about it.
I'm saying that if women don't like the games made for men, then they should make their own. Instead of complaining that game x/y/z has scantily clad women, violence, or whatever that women don't like, they should just not play that game. When men don't like a game, they just don't play it. As I said earlier about games like Depression Quest or Gone Home, men hated them. They made a point to complain about how terrible it was, but they don't play it or buy it after realizing it was s**t. They also don't demand the developer change it to have what they want.
Getting into gaming isn't really that hard. It takes a computer and knowledge to make games by yourself. Oddly enough, women (and feminists) are amazing at crowd-sourcing and communal projects. They very well could get together and make games themselves. Collectively they have the funds, artists, and programmers to do so. It doesn't take hundreds of millions to make games.
Quote:
Seriously. neutral
Was that really called for.
Really now.
I'm suddenly remembering why I hate discussing this topic with guys.
I'll admit, it was rude. At the same time this gets tiring. There's no real winning. Developers can make a woman an insane badass with massive amounts of power and unique personality/opinions, but if they make her conventionally sexy in any way she's being objectified. If she ever has to rely on a male for help, she's a damsel and is objectified. If they keep the power/opinions but make her unattractive or ugly then they are demonizing women with strong roles. If they make her a normal person, she's bland and won't sell games.
The feminists that complain about the portrayal of women in videogames want change without having to do it themselves. They want the companies to make games that pander to them despite the companies having a great business model already, and tons of male gamers enjoying the games. If they want games that pander to their own demographic so much, and others won't make them, they should.
It literally takes one shitty flash game that is successful enough to start a gaming company. If you manage to hook people you can make shitloads off of micro transactions. It doesn't take millions of dollars to make these flash games either. It takes an interest, knowledge, and some time. Once you have profits coming in you can make better games/hire better resources.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo where the entire storyline is about Master Chief learning to deal with his new overweight female lesbian superior officer and come to grips with his inner racism and misogyny.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo regardless.
Feminists need to realize what I'm sure men already know. Video games are wish fulfilment. They're escapism. They're not real life.
No guy loads up a game of say, God of War and says, "you know, I don't think I feel comfortable playing this, Kratos isn't really an accurate representation of myself. He's so overly sexualized with his bulging muscles and lack of clothing".
******** yes I will play as the sorceress in Dragon's Crown. Not a single part of me doesn't enjoy playing as a cute as ******** girl, with massive breasts who kills the s**t out of things. If I don't know the characters of a new fighting game I'll always go for the hottest looking girls first, and I have waisted so much time downloading mods for Elder Scrolls games.
Why would I want to play as some frumpy, average girl in the things I use to escape from reality?
I agree with any concerns about online communities, but I mostly steer clear of them aside from a couple mmo's and that responsibility is really in the hands of parents to teach their twelve year olds not to be complete shitbags and also not buy them microphones. Because that's mostly the worst of it I've seen aside from the occasional basement dweller.
My little cousins play halo a lot and I admit I've played the storylines for them out of fun. idk why I like the story.
So I honestly am just perplexed at why so many people are so angry over these people complaining. If they don't have the numbers they aren't going to be able to change how video games are made, and if they do have the numbers and video games are changed to fit what they want, then who are you to complain about the way games are made? This is the very criticism made towards these people complaining, so it would be hypocritical to complain if video games are no longer made the way you like them.
You missed the important one in the middle: getting or maintaining the numbers.
Those concerned with changing the industry so it better represents women need to make the numbers if the are to be successful. It is the first step towards states where they have the numbers to make what they desire, both in terms of production and players. By making there arguments, they are trying to build a future state where people want to make and buy games with better representations of women.
For those who don't want games to change, there arguments are threatening the games the like so much. If those trying to improve representations of women in video games are successful, the base for terrible depictions of women, and the culture associated with it, will gradually eroded to one extent or another. Game creators will want to make games with better representations of women. Players, to a greater extent, will demand games which are not demeaning to women. At a certain point, these things will start to feed of each other, creating a situation where misogynistic games and culture get relegated to a gradually smaller subset of gaming.
So those who don't want games to change cannot afford arguments about games needing better representation to be taken seriously. To maintain the status quo, they have to ensure people are not influenced to demand games portray women better (and, by extension, that games threat women better). They have to maintain the number of people content with misogynistic depictions and treatment of women.
Both sides, therefore, care a great deal. What is happening now will define whether or to each group is successful in their goals at a future point.
Well yeah, I mean I don't disagree with this at all.
That's exactly why I said if they do get the numbers and change games, alright who am I to complain? If more people than not want to change games, who am I to be arrogant enough to think my opinion on how games should be is more important than others?
But the point is that I don't think they are getting the numbers, in fact if anything, I think Anita has probably damaged the very cause she's advocating for more than not. Sure she gets these awards from gaming places, but it's obvious it's just for political reasons. No one takes that crap seriously or cares, in fact it probably made the award lose it's significance. It's kind of similar to when Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize, I mean way to diminish the meaning of what a Nobel Peace Prize is supposed to represent.
But then again I could be wrong, because first of all I just don't pay attention to gaming anymore, and secondly I don't play that often anymore as well. So I could be wrong about this not having any significant influence.
Either way I don't really care much what happens, I just don't think anything significant will happen. Personally I think the whole thing is a bit absurd it just demonstrates to me how American's are too obsessed with entertainment.
I mean really at the end of the day it's just a ******** game, it's not a big deal. Same feeling I have towards sports or the celebrity culture, it's just entertainment it's not even important.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo where the entire storyline is about Master Chief learning to deal with his new overweight female lesbian superior officer and come to grips with his inner racism and misogyny.
Nobody wants to play a game of Halo regardless.
Feminists need to realize what I'm sure men already know. Video games are wish fulfilment. They're escapism. They're not real life.
No guy loads up a game of say, God of War and says, "you know, I don't think I feel comfortable playing this, Kratos isn't really an accurate representation of myself. He's so overly sexualized with his bulging muscles and lack of clothing".
******** yes I will play as the sorceress in Dragon's Crown. Not a single part of me doesn't enjoy playing as a cute as ******** girl, with massive breasts who kills the s**t out of things. If I don't know the characters of a new fighting game I'll always go for the hottest looking girls first, and I have waisted so much time downloading mods for Elder Scrolls games.
Why would I want to play as some frumpy, average girl in the things I use to escape from reality?
I agree with any concerns about online communities, but I mostly steer clear of them aside from a couple mmo's and that responsibility is really in the hands of parents to teach their twelve year olds not to be complete shitbags and also not buy them microphones. Because that's mostly the worst of it I've seen aside from the occasional basement dweller.
I think the video game community was better back in the old days when virtually everyone who played them were the basement dweller types.
I remember those days, it was a long time ago though back when I was still in middle school and early high school.
Those were the good ol days when playing video games made you a loser to the public eye and video gaming was not mainstream.
Lots of things get ruined when they go mainstream, things are better when the only people involved in them are the freaks and weirdos. The most interesting academic work is done by the abnormal people. The mad scientists, the insensitive social scientists, the insane people who write philosophy books, they are the best. And well mathematicians, well most of them are weird, which I'm sure plays in part why math is still awesome and not tainted by the bug of democracy.
Let's hope math never becomes popular though, who knows maybe we'll see "feminist mathematics" pop up, there's already a degree for feminist biology (yes I'm serious, there really is).
[
If women are such a large demographic and companies are refusing to cater to them, women should make their own games, cash in, and change the industry through competition.
Did it never occur to you that women do make their own games? Or that the video game industry is actually kinda hard to get into in the first place?
Also, just because you're a women working on a game, dosen't mean you have full control over every aspect. If you want a main female character, but someone of a higher position says no, you can't do much about it.
Quote:
Not b***h like little princesses that the boys won't let them in their clubhouse and demand that the adults change the rules. ]
Seriously. neutral
Was that really called for.
Really now.
Really.
Also, “it sure would be nice if I wasn’t treated like s**t while enjoying the games I play” =/= "I must be catered to in every video game starting now."
Ugh, I'm suddenly remembering why I hate discussing this topic with guys.
Getting into the video game industry really isn't that hard. In fact it's one of the easier industries to get into relative to many other industries.
There's an entire platform on Steam (and I'm sure a ton of other places I'm not even aware of) for indie games made by lay folk who aren't even employed at a gaming business.
Mods (modifying a popular game into something new) have been around for at least a decade, often mods are made entirely by one person or by a person and a few friends.
All you really have to be is dedicated and have a skill relevant to making video games like programming or graphic design. Furthermore these things can be self taught, there's plenty of programmers who are a programmer professionally and they don't have any college education.
Yet programmers are still overwhelmingly male, even though like I pointed out programming is something that often self taught and people are employed as programmers. You don't even need to go to college, so the excuse that "Well computer science departments at colleges are sexist" doesn't explain the lack of female programmers.
There's a ton of material online to learn programming and because so many people program now, you can just find forums and ask questions people will answer accurately. I know how to program in two languages (although I'm not good at all cause I find programming extremely dull) and most of it was self taught because I skipped almost all the lectures when I was taking my courses in computer science. You can go to a library and pick up free books on programming languages like C++ and Java.
There's websites that you can sign up for free and they have free software that teach you step by step how to program.
You're making excuses and making women look bad by implying that some force is blocking more women from getting into programming and the gaming industry. Maybe women just aren't as interested in making games or in fact in video games in general as men? Why is that such a horrible thought?
Also isn't that the less sexist thought? I mean I find it extremely sexist to imply that even though you can literally teach yourself programming almost for free by going to a library, signing up on websites that teach you for free, and asking for help for free if you don't understand something on a forum full of tech nerds, that women still are having trouble because of some mysterious force. I mean are women so weak that they still need more help and need something to be even more easy than this?
No sorry, the video game industry is not hard to get into, it's one of the easiest industries to be apart of because games are being increasingly made by people who aren't even employed at a gaming business. More and more games are being made for free, mods are being made, and indie games are being made all by lay-people who aren't programmers as a profession.
We need to threat women better in the video game industry. If they were doing it properly we wouldn't need sweet, sweet twitter justice.
You could put women into a perfect flawless utopia and they'd still find something to complain about........Until of course they have a child or get older, and then realize that the world isn't a horrible place even if it isn't bending over backwards at their every whim.
I mean really, one question I'd like to ask a radical feminist is is there any complaint a woman could make that would not be a legitimate complaint? I mean do females ever complain about something and it's a ridiculous/unrealistic complaint based upon a mentality of entitlement? Because I rarely ever see people ever point out how unrealistic female's expectations are, yet male expectations are constantly criticized.
It just goes to show how far we're willing to stick an object up our a** for females. it's really ridiculous and an outside observer/alien watching this whole thing take place would laugh at the absurdity.
If anyone has paid attention to my previous posts on feminism from a while back, then you're about to get something that I want to keep as relatively politically neutral as possible. As much as I support feminism, there's a lot of the idea that is leaking into gaming in constant Anita Sarkesian dribble where the writers of articles who have picked up a recent study where women make almost 50% of the gaming community and take it as not only as a sign of change, but as a legitimate milestone for women. I think this might be lengthy as I haven't drafted this s**t, but I'm not going to give you a "tldr" because I don't owe any of you that s**t. If you disagree with me, if you agree with me, that's your issue, I really don't care, this is going to be my vent/viewpoint.
Once upon a time last year, I sat down to check my Facebook when a Gaming Page uploaded the infamous video for Anita Sarkeesian's first episode of Feminist Frequency. With my interest of feminism only happening to bloom at the time, I clicked, I watched. While there were little spots I thought she had taken out of context, I pretty much thought she nailed down the thing I myself had been annoyed with video games.
So, spurred on by this, I became more concious about certain things with female representation of video games, even at times that were indeed hypocritical, having not even thought back to my original view points of women in video games and the need for context. Though I never boycotted anything, I sure did whine about things such as some of the lewd potrayals of women in games like Dragon's Crown.
Fast forward to this year, I find an article that shows that gamers that are female come up to about 48% of the gaming demographic. Immediately I was pleased because "woo, female gamers, we're getting a gamer balance!"
It wasn't however, that I read an article by "Cheshire Cat Studios", where a group of pessimistic nerds write commentary on entertainment media such as movies and video games brought up an interesting insight on why there are less girl gamers.
To paraphrase, the article essentially said that there is an actual sexist mentality between gamers and "feminist" gamers. Both make the female Gamer out to be a mystical creature amongst men. For the Gamers, it's also the sexist idea that women only play "casual games", which is your Angry Birds, Flappy Bird and what have you, and the "feminist" gamer movement turns video games into a political statement instead of a past time. Essentially, both stereotypes differentiate the female gamer from the "default" male gamer. They are not being taken seriously, which is probably one of the big blockades for women in some gaming communities.
At first, I thought it was an interesting viewpoint, until I did look at the article I had read before on the gamer gender balance from the Female Media website, The Mary Sue, where I actually thought on this point, as well as reading how this article was written that I physically cringed when I re-read:
Quote:
Hey remember how girls are supposed to think that video games are gross and totally don’t belong in your hobby, or whatever? Yeah, no. We make up 48% of all “gamers,” according to the Entertainment Software Association—which makes us a larger demographic than teenage boys. So, guess you’d better get used to us.
Fortunately, they have the pdf file that was used for this research, but I can't help but still loathe this type of writing. It's not formal, and it's not even written to sound mature. It sounds angry and hostile towards men under the presumption that every single one is a sexist p***k that'll chase women out of a convention to quarantine that precious space the girl's alleged heels had stepped on.
I recently watched one of Anita's most recent videos, "Women as Background Decoration, Part 1". I had thought to give her the benefit of the doubt when I found out that she doesn't like video games, though part of me wonders now if I had been trying to deny a big "no-no" simply out of a Feminist Pride. What I saw left me both annoyed and I feel like it may be time to do as I used to back in my uber Goth days, and try to lead a better example than her.
Anytime Anita has made a potentially good article related to the potrayal of women in video games, they are very small and few. For example, in that episode, Anita compares the fact that prostitutes are basically soda cans-they are actually itemized, and sex becomes the interactive sequence to replenish Health like soda. Otherwise, there are more examples than not where she'll take a video game completely out of context such as making a prostitute in Fallout: New Vegas a sort of grotesque necrophillic sexualization, with her words basically saying "this is unique to women." when in the actual game, you can pick up the corpses of men, women, dogs, cockroaches, or just raise part of their limb. The point is, I have woken upto what was more obvious than I wanted to believe- Anita is full of s**t, and a liar.
It also dawned on me when I thought more on the article that put a more central argument about reasons why women aren't taken seriously-I know female gamers, and have through my time on the internet, seen dozens of female gamers on youtube, in blogs, and made friends with some, and lost some as friends, and yet I too, was making this whole big deal about women in the gaming community. You know what would probably be the best comparison for this is? If anyone still watches The Simpsons, it's like the episode where Marge is training to be a police officer, and she's struggling to climb over a brick wall, and everyone is walking through a door-that's what this "war" is. While there are definitely imperatives towards girl gamers, if Jaltoid's animation on girl gamers can be considered enough commentary, there are people who do creep on women, and I'm sure "sammich" jokes at the time were heard over and over again. In my own personal experience having been mistaken for a female gamer, I am no stranger to this bullshit, it is the truth, and bloody ******** can these assholes be condescending.
However, instead of doing what many people have done in this day and age and dwelled on being a victim to this junk, I think the community should just try a more positive approach and welcome people into their gaming circles. Encourage and recommend people of either gender to play different things, instead of turning what would essentially be considered a way to enjoy a different medium into a war where the female presence is somehow revolutionary and then men have to back down. That's not going to help anyone, that's just going to make the few assholes who sneer at women playing video games sneer even more.
Personally, my experience with this is that there is still ways women could probably be improved in their potrayal in video games if they're being sexual for the purpose of "sex sells video games", but we also have to go from just calling out game designers for showing cleavage to also analyzing what they're doing, or perhaps the situation. There are better ways to do this, but Anita Sarkeesian, the Zoe Quinns of the world, these are not the people who should be leading the banner into the video game world. I think Cyndi Lauper said it best: Girls Just wanna have fun.
There's a lot more I can elaborate on here, because I feel that I did leave some of my other viewpoints of a completely unwarranted opinion of this topic out, but if you made it this far, you can...comment on it, or give your own argument on this. I'm just going to plop some of the articles that got me to write this.
I was well with this till anita was mentioned.
Now anything I ever read about her is tainted..why?
Because she is a theif.
This is not inflamatory...I know a couple of artists she stole from to make one of her lil banners. The artists were pretty cool about it. Figured it was accidental etc.
They contacted her...what insued was beyond boggling.
Her and her partner have flat out REFUSED to pay or even credit the artists. She claimed fair use and non-profit..as someone that has had to go to court for copyright infringment(my work stolen and used) I KNOW legal for fact it is BS. fair use is a defense not a reason or excuse. Non-profit is again, bogus as she made money off the particular banner.
Sorry...it just took any validity from her as a person, as a professional..etc.
To be frank, she could come and tell me I was a woman with large breasts and red hair and I would get a doctor to verify it before I believed anita.
look up her name and art theft...you will get (if I remember correctly cowkitty first)
