Slow To Denounce Cliven Bundy Over Racist Comments

[Niji no Jojishi]

Kaltros

Niji no Jojishi

What does openly proud to be white even mean?

What don't you understand about the idea?

What dont YOU understand about it? Seriously.

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Isnt everyday white history month?

There isn't even one white history month, so no.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Isnt every textbook majority white people accomplishments?

I haven't read a textbook recently, so perhaps you could point to specific examples.

Well it seems like I should stop taking classes in college. rofl rofl

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Do your REALLY need help with having pride? Really? Like I said, that's weak. You want the black people to "suck it up" and the white people need to feel better about being white people.

Right. stare

You got a persecution complex there, dude. Everybody's out to get the black guy, right? It's a vast global conspiracy to get yuh.

Hahahahaha... its so unrealted and so convoluted, I cant respond.

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So pirates (1 million in 400 years = 2500 slaves/yr ) vs. legal slave trade (10 to 15 million)

Where'd you get your figures, and what time period does that cover?

Wikipedia has this to say on the matter:

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A total of about 600,000 slaves were imported into the Thirteen Colonies and the U.S, constituting 5% of the twelve million slaves brought from Africa to the Americas. The great majority of African slaves were transported to sugar colonies in the Caribbean and to Brazil. As life expectancy was short, their numbers had to be continually replenished. Life expectancy was much higher in the U.S. and the slave population began to reproduce; enslaved peoples' numbers grew rapidly, reaching 4 million by the 1860 Census. From 1770 until 1860, the rate of natural growth of North American enslaved people was much greater than for the population of any nation in Europe, and was nearly twice as rapid as that of England.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#Colonial_America

Going by the numbers the Europeans should get more blame for slavery than the United States does.

Bolded for effect.

Nonetheless, so your argument to me is that the European white people are to blame more than the American white people?

Just keep fighting this to the bitter end.

That 12 million number is between the 10 to 15 million number.

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Japan in war time? Really? In an attempt to defend the country? Thats comparable to trading human bodies for salt and spices? rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Are you two years old? This is supposed to be a rational discussion, not a chance for you to spew emoticons.

I spew laughter at your opinion out of pure frustration. Frustration that some how, you are trying to rationalize to me, the decendant of slaves, how slavery wasnt that bad. EVEN though slavery IN ITSELF IS and the Middle Passage was by far the WORST example in the past 500 years even WITH the examples you mentioned.

If you want to feel good for winning an argument, fine. Say whatever makes you feel proud to be white and whatever should make me feel like Im whining if I say racism is wrong. Its hilariously immature to me. xd

[Kaltros]

Niji no Jojishi

No, the problem is that you cant read. I said you used the rhetoric of a Red State policymaker which I recognize LIVING IN a Red State.

For instance, saying immigration is a problem is about as Red as it gets. Which you then reveal as rhetoric later...

Immigration IS a problem for workers. Big union guys like Cesar Chavez used to understand this. I'm amazed that a black guy is sticking up for The Man, who likes mistreating blacks. Blacks pro-corporation lap dogs! Who knew!

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End welfare, which destroys families. If you subsidize single mothers, you're going to get more of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-stein/where-are-all-the-couch-p_b_4085773.html

According to this SOURCE, "In 2009, 32.2 percent of food stamp recipients were white, versus 22.5 percent of African-American households, and 15.5 percent Hispanics."

Didnt see that coming did you?

No I didn't, but then again it doesn't contradict what I said. I don't like broken families of any color.

No... you didnt. In a thread about racism, you had to throw this little nugget of "wisdom" in that I see as rhetoric. See, subliminally, the message to "end welfare" is clear and its a direct attack on the what you assumed the majority recipients of welfare are.

Again with the conspiracy theories... It's all about getting the black dudes.. Everybody's out to get you, right?

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Secondly, as rhetoric, there is rarely anything that actually PROVES that welfare destroys families. Its a Red tactic to "curb spending".

Hmm.. The U.S. Census begs to differ.

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Research released last week by the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey says states with a higher percentage of out-of-wedlock births in 2011 tended to have a higher incidence of poverty.

-snip-

There was a .6 Pearson's correlation between state-level poverty and the percentage of women reporting out-wedlock births, according to the report. A correlation of 0 would suggest no relationship between the two, while correlation values of 1 or -1 would suggest a strong correlation.

http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/05/06/census-bureau-links-poverty-with-out-of-wedlock-births

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Now, I am not calling you Republican but Im just pointing out how what your are saying might as well be on the 2016 Republican platform.

Are you kidding? The Republican establishment is 'hellbent' as Boehner put it, to pass amnesty for illegal aliens, among other things. Don't make me laugh. Republicans like illegals as much as Democrats, though for different reasons. Same thing with a host of issues.

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Contradictions.

To say that ILLEGAL immigrants can get a working class job is like saying George Bush Sr and Jr perform incest: UNTRUE!

You cant legal get work if you dont have an ID and SOCIAL SECURITY CARD and they arent passing them out like fliers, I can tell you that.

Being that this is FACT, there is no way that ILLEGAL immigrants can TAKE ANY job that I would take. ANY.

You've never heard of document fraud, fake ID and SS cards, and so forth?

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Now Im not saying that all people to do this but to sum it up and specify: If you are black and in poverty, its systemically harder to climb due to the track that this country has taken and the way that black people developed after being forced to adopt "Western civilization" and not taking to it (or trusting it AT ALL) because it was against their will and they would be learning the "ways of the slavemaster".

If living here is so horrific would you like a plane ticket somewhere else? Just pick any country in the world, and I'm sure we could find enough money to buy you a one-way ticket.

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Im saying this as enlightenment to a new perspective to consider, not as a right or wrong. But as a black guy who is a bit of history nerd (understatement) i can safely assume that I can give you more insight on what black people are about than you can give yourself.

You haven't done much to prove your history nerd cred so far. Were you taught by Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

[Kaltros]

Niji no Jojishi

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Isnt everyday white history month?

There isn't even one white history month, so no.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Are you high?

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Isnt every textbook majority white people accomplishments?

I haven't read a textbook recently, so perhaps you could point to specific examples.

Well it seems like I should stop taking classes in college. rofl rofl

What drugs are you taking? Because your discussion skills are awful right now. You might not actually be two years old, but you act like it.

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Hahahahaha... its so unrealted and so convoluted, I cant respond.

That's what I should say, not you.

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So pirates (1 million in 400 years = 2500 slaves/yr ) vs. legal slave trade (10 to 15 million)

Where'd you get your figures, and what time period does that cover?

Wikipedia has this to say on the matter:

Quote:

A total of about 600,000 slaves were imported into the Thirteen Colonies and the U.S, constituting 5% of the twelve million slaves brought from Africa to the Americas. The great majority of African slaves were transported to sugar colonies in the Caribbean and to Brazil. As life expectancy was short, their numbers had to be continually replenished. Life expectancy was much higher in the U.S. and the slave population began to reproduce; enslaved peoples' numbers grew rapidly, reaching 4 million by the 1860 Census. From 1770 until 1860, the rate of natural growth of North American enslaved people was much greater than for the population of any nation in Europe, and was nearly twice as rapid as that of England.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#Colonial_America

Going by the numbers the Europeans should get more blame for slavery than the United States does.

Bolded for effect.

Nonetheless, so your argument to me is that the European white people are to blame more than the American white people?

That's right. Am I going too fast for you? You're a precocious two-year-old, but you have work to do.

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Japan in war time? Really? In an attempt to defend the country? Thats comparable to trading human bodies for salt and spices? rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Are you two years old? This is supposed to be a rational discussion, not a chance for you to spew emoticons.

I spew laughter at your opinion out of pure frustration. Frustration that some how, you are trying to rationalize to me, the decendant of slaves, how slavery wasnt that bad. EVEN though slavery IN ITSELF IS and the Middle Passage was by far the WORST example in the past 500 years even WITH the examples you mentioned.

You really do have a persecution complex, don't you?

I'm not saying that slavery wasn't that bad. But this whole thread has gone to hell. And it's not much help when you're looking for an excuse to be offended at any little thing.

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If you want to feel good for winning an argument, fine. Say whatever makes you feel proud to be white and whatever should make me feel like Im whining if I say racism is wrong. Its hilariously immature to me. xd

You're immature yourself, so you see immaturity lots of places.

[Niji no Jojishi]

Whats sad is that I never said that anyone was out to get the black community... like at all...

You use persecution complex where this isnt any persecution.

You want to end welfare in a time where economic inequality is at its highest rate EVER.

AND you feel that its moreso the European white people who are most to blame for American slaves.

Convoluted. 3nodding

[Chesapeake Cannibal]

Oh goodness emotion_facepalm
some people just shouldnt be allowed to speak

[azulmagia]

These people are ******** insane:

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First off, Stewart Rhodes, the head of one militia contingent, the Oath Keepers, said on Friday that he’d gotten “intel” from a highly placed source that Eric Holder and the Department of Justice were going to launch a “hot drone strike” on the Bundy Ranch, because that makes perfect sense. And while Rhodes suspected that the leak may have been deliberate disinformation designed to make the militia heroes look delusional, or more delusional, he also decided, as a precaution, to “evacuate all of his Oath Keepers that have been stationed” at the Bundy Ranch, for, like, security and stuff. This decision did not sit well with “Booda Bear,” the “head of security” for the Bundy Ranch. (Who made him “head of security”? We have no earthly idea; we get the impression it may be a self-appointed position, but who knows?)

In a YouTube interview with some super-patriot named Blaine Cooper,* who asked Mr. Bear for a “sitrep.” That is SO AUTHENTICALLY MILITARY and COOL! The sitrep was that Booda Bear was not especially impressed by Rhodes’s “high value intelligence” — which turns out to have come from an anonymous tip line. Bear also emphasized that such defections are bad for the tactical situation, since “this is a battle front in some sense of the word and to remove them is kind of ah — that’s some yellow cur — ya know, spineless backbone, piece of s**t maneuvering right there.”

Yep, a battle front. Where people are willing to lay down their lives for FREEDOM and the holy cause of not paying grazing fees to an out-of-control federal government that may or may not actually exist.

Mr. Bear suggested that in his opinion, the Oath Keepers — or maybe they should all be called Oath Breakers, haw haw haw — were mostly just interested in going “into the next town and get hotel rooms, get showers, gamble eat steak dinners while we’re out here on the battle front.” You know, facing all the BLM snipers and mercenaries and black helicopters that left over a week beforehand. But could be back any minute to do some tyranny.

And so, since the Oath Keepers chickened out (in another very important video, the Booda Bear Loyalists take a vote and agree that it was “desertion” — swear to god, it is like watching goddamn Teddy Roosevelt and the ******** Rough Riders storm Omaha Beach during the Battle of Bunker Hill here, tell you what), Mr. Booda Bear proclaimed that since he and his guys “sleep in the dirt out here, we’re on shifts for 14hours a day and trying to make sure that this family [the Bundys] stays safe and secure,” there were going to have to be some changes made:

and just so everybody knows, as Booda, head of security for the Bundy Family I can swear on the white skin that covers my a** there will not be an Oath Keeper — there WILL NOT BE AN OATH KEEPER allowed to set foot on the internal ranch property.

If there is anything more sacred to a militiaman than the white skin that covers his a**, we don’t want to know what it is.

And so, just a couple weeks after coming together to scare away the Feds and to win an enormous victory for the sacred right to never pay grazing fees on land that is not yours but is near where your family has lived for time immemorial (or at least 194 cool , The Great Shithead Militia Coalition has been riven by schism. We just pray it doesn’t get ugly.

Also, in what may be a related note, Howard Kurtz appears to be the first person on Fox News to criticize his network’s amusing/appalling fumble of Cliven Bundy’s racist remarks, when Fox went all day last Thursday without mentioning the suddenly-embarrassing hero. Other panelists on Sunday’s Media Buzz agreed that the network had pretty much screwed the pooch in elevating Bundy to folk-hero status, although Kurtz appeared at one point to forget which script he was supposed to be on:

“It doesn’t take away necessarily from the argument—” Kurtz began, and then: “Although he was a lawbreaker who hadn’t paid his taxes.”

Something must be done about this federal overreach in dealing with, um, recidivist lawbreakers. We just pray that doesn’t get ugly either.

*In another video — mellifluously titled “A Message to Muslims Islam and President Obama Blaine Cooper Burns the Quran! Islam Roast!” — Mr. Cooper once courageously and with great valor burned a bacon-wrapped Quran on an outdoor grill. While wearing camouflage. For America. This apparently proved something about how degenerate all Muslims are. In his words, “Say bye-bye to your little holy book, you ********!”

(link)

Sweet fancy Moses. rolleyes

[Kaltros]

Niji no Jojishi

You want to end welfare in a time where economic inequality is at its highest rate EVER.

Instead of worrying about inequality, I'd worry about quality of life.

Welfare that destroys families is not going to solve these problems. We've been paying massive amounts of welfare for decades, and what do we have to show for it? Have the problems gone away? No. Have they gotten better? Not that I can tell. They seem to be getting worse. Welfare was originally sold as a temporary measure. Here's FDR:

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The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers. The Federal Government must and shall quit this business of relief. I am not willing that the vitality of our people be further sapped by the giving of cash, of market baskets, of a few hours of weekly work cutting grass, raking leaves or picking up papers in the public parks. We must preserve not only the bodies of the unemployed from destitution but also their self-respect, their self-reliance and courage and determination.

From Roosevelt's 1935 State of the Union address.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt#State_of_the_Union_Address_.281935.29

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AND you feel that its moreso the European white people who are most to blame for American slaves.

I provided numbers. 'Feel' is not the right word, unless you think the numbers are wrong? Do you disagree that the vast majority of slaves went to places other than the United States?

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Convoluted. 3nodding

To you, because you apparently have trouble grasping these things.

[Nyadriel]

azulmagia

These people are ******** insane:

Quote:

First off, Stewart Rhodes, the head of one militia contingent, the Oath Keepers, said on Friday that he’d gotten “intel” from a highly placed source that Eric Holder and the Department of Justice were going to launch a “hot drone strike” on the Bundy Ranch, because that makes perfect sense. And while Rhodes suspected that the leak may have been deliberate disinformation designed to make the militia heroes look delusional, or more delusional, he also decided, as a precaution, to “evacuate all of his Oath Keepers that have been stationed” at the Bundy Ranch, for, like, security and stuff. This decision did not sit well with “Booda Bear,” the “head of security” for the Bundy Ranch. (Who made him “head of security”? We have no earthly idea; we get the impression it may be a self-appointed position, but who knows?)

In a YouTube interview with some super-patriot named Blaine Cooper,* who asked Mr. Bear for a “sitrep.” That is SO AUTHENTICALLY MILITARY and COOL! The sitrep was that Booda Bear was not especially impressed by Rhodes’s “high value intelligence” — which turns out to have come from an anonymous tip line. Bear also emphasized that such defections are bad for the tactical situation, since “this is a battle front in some sense of the word and to remove them is kind of ah — that’s some yellow cur — ya know, spineless backbone, piece of s**t maneuvering right there.”

Yep, a battle front. Where people are willing to lay down their lives for FREEDOM and the holy cause of not paying grazing fees to an out-of-control federal government that may or may not actually exist.

Mr. Bear suggested that in his opinion, the Oath Keepers — or maybe they should all be called Oath Breakers, haw haw haw — were mostly just interested in going “into the next town and get hotel rooms, get showers, gamble eat steak dinners while we’re out here on the battle front.” You know, facing all the BLM snipers and mercenaries and black helicopters that left over a week beforehand. But could be back any minute to do some tyranny.

And so, since the Oath Keepers chickened out (in another very important video, the Booda Bear Loyalists take a vote and agree that it was “desertion” — swear to god, it is like watching goddamn Teddy Roosevelt and the ******** Rough Riders storm Omaha Beach during the Battle of Bunker Hill here, tell you what), Mr. Booda Bear proclaimed that since he and his guys “sleep in the dirt out here, we’re on shifts for 14hours a day and trying to make sure that this family [the Bundys] stays safe and secure,” there were going to have to be some changes made:

and just so everybody knows, as Booda, head of security for the Bundy Family I can swear on the white skin that covers my a** there will not be an Oath Keeper — there WILL NOT BE AN OATH KEEPER allowed to set foot on the internal ranch property.

If there is anything more sacred to a militiaman than the white skin that covers his a**, we don’t want to know what it is.

And so, just a couple weeks after coming together to scare away the Feds and to win an enormous victory for the sacred right to never pay grazing fees on land that is not yours but is near where your family has lived for time immemorial (or at least 194 cool , The Great Shithead Militia Coalition has been riven by schism. We just pray it doesn’t get ugly.

Also, in what may be a related note, Howard Kurtz appears to be the first person on Fox News to criticize his network’s amusing/appalling fumble of Cliven Bundy’s racist remarks, when Fox went all day last Thursday without mentioning the suddenly-embarrassing hero. Other panelists on Sunday’s Media Buzz agreed that the network had pretty much screwed the pooch in elevating Bundy to folk-hero status, although Kurtz appeared at one point to forget which script he was supposed to be on:

“It doesn’t take away necessarily from the argument—” Kurtz began, and then: “Although he was a lawbreaker who hadn’t paid his taxes.”

Something must be done about this federal overreach in dealing with, um, recidivist lawbreakers. We just pray that doesn’t get ugly either.

*In another video — mellifluously titled “A Message to Muslims Islam and President Obama Blaine Cooper Burns the Quran! Islam Roast!” — Mr. Cooper once courageously and with great valor burned a bacon-wrapped Quran on an outdoor grill. While wearing camouflage. For America. This apparently proved something about how degenerate all Muslims are. In his words, “Say bye-bye to your little holy book, you ********!”

(link)

Sweet fancy Moses. rolleyes

*facepalm to the point of knocking myself into next week*

Oh my gawd!

[Niji no Jojishi]

Kaltros

Niji no Jojishi

You want to end welfare in a time where economic inequality is at its highest rate EVER.

Instead of worrying about inequality, I'd worry about quality of life.

Welfare that destroys families is not going to solve these problems. We've been paying massive amounts of welfare for decades, and what do we have to show for it? Have the problems gone away? No. Have they gotten better? Not that I can tell. They seem to be getting worse. Welfare was originally sold as a temporary measure. Here's FDR:

Quote:

The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers. The Federal Government must and shall quit this business of relief. I am not willing that the vitality of our people be further sapped by the giving of cash, of market baskets, of a few hours of weekly work cutting grass, raking leaves or picking up papers in the public parks. We must preserve not only the bodies of the unemployed from destitution but also their self-respect, their self-reliance and courage and determination.

From Roosevelt's 1935 State of the Union address.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt#State_of_the_Union_Address_.281935.29

Quote:

AND you feel that its moreso the European white people who are most to blame for American slaves.

I provided numbers. 'Feel' is not the right word, unless you think the numbers are wrong? Do you disagree that the vast majority of slaves went to places other than the United States?

Quote:

Convoluted. 3nodding

To you, because you apparently have trouble grasping these things.

Thanks for playing. 3nodding

[Niji no Jojishi]

By the way, it isnt welfare that breaks families apart in the context you speak of, Kaltros. Its poverty. Wefare is a safety net to keep poor families from dying It was put in place during the New Deal to combat the poverty of the great depression and.. get this... it wasnt until Nixon came that we had to have a 'war on poverty" which really meant a war on the "welfare state" created to save millions of Americans stricken with poverty. Its like unlearning valuable lessons.

[Kaltros]

Niji no Jojishi

By the way, it isnt welfare that breaks families apart in the context you speak of, Kaltros. Its poverty.

Welfare says to single mothers, "hey, it's okay, you don't have to stay married, we'll take care of you." When you pay women to be single mothers, that creates the incentive for more women to become single mothers. This is basic economics. If you pay for something you get more of it. If you pay for single motherhood you get more of that.

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Wefare is a safety net to keep poor families from dying It was put in place during the New Deal to combat the poverty of the great depression and.. get this...

And get this... the great depression ended decades ago. Yet we still have many New Deal policies in place, and have added more besides. And I doubt there is a huge risk of millions dying of starvation these days, given the obesity epidemic in this country.

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it wasnt until Nixon came that we had to have a 'war on poverty" which really meant a war on the "welfare state" created to save millions of Americans stricken with poverty. Its like unlearning valuable lessons.

Er, no. Your deranged need to make Republicans look bad is getting in the way of the facts. Nixon didn't start the war on poverty, it was Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson -- and he fought the war on poverty by INCREASING welfare spending.

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The War on Poverty is the unofficial name for legislation first introduced by United States President Lyndon B. Johnson during his State of the Union address on January 8, 1964. This legislation was proposed by Johnson in response to a national poverty rate of around nineteen percent. The speech led the United States Congress to pass the Economic Opportunity Act, which established the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) to administer the local application of federal funds targeted against poverty.

As a part of the Great Society, Johnson believed in expanding the government's role in education and health care as poverty reduction strategies.[1] These policies can also be seen as a continuation of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, which ran from 1933 to 1935, and the Four Freedoms of 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_poverty

And if you want to talk about unlearning valuable lessons, how about the words of a certain Hebrew preacher: " The poor you will always have with you..."

19 percent was the poverty rate before Johnson's war on poverty. How about today?

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In November 2012 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty, including almost 20% of American children,[7] up from 14.3% (approximately 43.6 million) in 2009 and to its highest level since 1993. In 2008, 13.2% (39.8 million) Americans lived in poverty.[8] Starting in the 1980s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations.[9] California has a poverty rate of 23.5%, the highest of any state in the country.[10]

California is an interesting case. California is a solidly blue, Democrat-controlled state. They spend a huge amount of public money each year on various welfare programs. But all that spending hasn't stopped the poverty rate from getting worse than the national average.

[Kaltros]

Niji no Jojishi

Thanks for playing. 3nodding

Phoning it in, I see. And that video's a giant red herring.

[Paige-Anon]

great!
first Donald Sterling and now this geezer?