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You're right. It's not Achemy at all. Vending is vending.
Correct, vending is vending. Promoting the positives of vending isn't the same as promoting the positives of Alchemy. Yes there are vending possibilities with Alchemy but currently an Alchemist can't possibly produce enough with alchemy to cover the cost of what was alchemizing. If an alchemist was a business, they'd be in the red.
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And, that's true, too. That's why Gaia has suggestion threads so you can go about talking to them with those kinds of things there. Realizing that you wanna do something that is gonna minus you in the end in something like this, isn't you "sinking into the satisfaction of a broken system". If you wanna do it and you have come to the terms of doing it, why should that even matter?
Why should what even matter? If one wants to alchemize with a broken system, why should the system being broken matter? Because.. it's broken. I'm pretty sure that's the obvious answer. People want to use a system that works. Coming to 'terms' with a broken system is accepting its brokenness as normal and that's what shouldn't happen.
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Using you as an example, no offence, you know what's in store if you gonna be in a system that's so "broken". These things can be fixed later or we can be given other or newer means to going about it in the future. This hasn't even been out long. A squeaky wheel isn't always gonna get the oil it wants, if the person suppling oil doesn't catch it. Gaia isn't perfect and isn't gonna realize this off the back. It's just something for us to do. Dogs bark even over the smallest things, but it doesn't have to be over something threating though or isn't always a big deal.
I know what's in store, yes, but even while I try to force my way through it to show the devs that people are willing to work hard in a system that doesn't cater to hard work, I still realize that the system is broken. I'm not content with a broken system. Saying that it isn't a big deal that it's broken is fundamentally wrong because it is a big deal. Alchemy touches all parts of Gaia, especially the marketplace because an alchemist has to destroy certain cash shop and rare items which takes them away from people who might be interested in them. Alchemy is a huge problem for all Gaians, and the sooner its fixed, the better. Just accepting that it's broken is well.. it's unacceptable. My problem with your big 'tip' isn't the intention, it's the content. Pepping people up for Alchemy is fine, but saying that they should accept
and enjoy a broken system is off-putting.
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People do like to see what they work for come to light. But, it's not always gonna be that way. You wouldn't know if anything got you anywhere if you didn't try.
Actually, you'd have a pretty good idea, especially if you understand the circumstances surrounding the task. I'm not going to run into a brick wall because of the bazillion to one chance I might pass through it going, "Well I don't know unless I try". It not only hurts me but wastes my time.
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And, what people think of the final result isn't always gonna be the same even if they did do the same things.
True but for the majority, they don't see this system as rewarding because it isn't. Some people enjoy being whipped, and sure that's a frame of mind. But most people don't.
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[...] that only was mean for those in which it will apply not that I was assuming anything unjust about it or them. There is nothing negative in that statement.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you were just throwing that statement out that, it might just be better to trim the fat off your paragraphs and stick to the points that are important to you.
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And, even if were to throw gold nugget in a big crowd, whose to say everyone will go for it? Let the fact that that are a lot of people there stop you from even going for it, if you are. You're gonna look silly, if no one went for it in the first place and you left it behind for someone else to scoop up, when you know you wanted it.
So if I don't have 10 million gold to pay for a single alchemy component that I need 6 of, I'm going to look silly for not raising that much gold when on average I wouldn't be able to make that much in two years? I'm pretty sure to anyone watching, I'd seem prudent to turn my attention else where.
In the case of Alchemy, yes, everyone is going for the nugget (which represents a single nearly unobtainable alchemy component.) or wishes they could go for the nugget. If it was a matter of two people racing for a single item and one person gave up, yeah that'd be silly. But it's not.
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I said before, I wasn't saying that people should give up. You wanna give up, that's on you. But, for those who do wanna keep their head in the game, have at it.
What was the point of telling people who have their head already in the game to keep their head in the game? If you're telling the people who consider giving up to have their head in the game because Alchemy is some kind of wonderful system and not a futile item destroying massive gold sink for the ultra rich, then don't play it off as if it's their state of mind that is at fault. It's not merely a defeatist state of mind, it's a broken system.
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What is that saying other than the fact Gaia just provides? In turn and truth, Gaia does put it out there, but YOU make it happen.
I do not control drop-rates. That statement is false.
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Gaia wouldn't be anything if there was no one here.
And it's currently bleeding members. I've seen an impressive amount of people say they're closing their wallets to gaia and turning adblock back on because Gaia is failing to meet its customer expectations.
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If they continued to make things even if no one was here, none of that would be a problem, until someone came here and made a problem out of it or thought of it as one. These are people just like us, who I'm sure don't wanna cause problems on purpose.
They are employees who are a part of a business. They're not regular users who might make a small slip-up. This slip-up affects everyone and realizing that, they should fix it.
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I'd go along the road of saying they are making 'mistakes', not problems.
A mistake is accidentally causing BG to give out too much gold. A problem is when a loyal user spends months to years questing for an item, to have it suddenly disappear from the marketplace because of a new feature that destroys items people had their heart set on.
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And, whose to say this isn't done on purpose?
There are quotes from devs practically admitting it was done on purpose, and that's something people take issue with. They created a huge problem on purpose and now refuse to acknowledge it.
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It's only seen as a problem, because you see it that way.
Once again, it's not simply seeing something in a particular way. It's an actual problem that creates limitations and doesn't reward users for the time they invest. And if people don't feel satisfied? They will leave like they have been doing, or they will refuse to give monetary support and that also hurts the whole site.
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You make this any easier, then what? Are you still gonna have problems? The thing is someone is ALWAYS gonna have a problem with something.
True, but there is a difference between one person having a problem with something, and an entire site having a problem with something. You can't please everyone, but you should at least be pleasing the majority of people.
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A guy selling a daisy at 1,000,000G isn't a problem at all. That's just a guy who wants 1,000,000G for the daisy he has. It would only be a problem to those who see it to be fit as one. A person with serveral millions of gold might not see this as a problem and might buy his daisy if he's looking for one. Maybe he might have an understanding of this guy wants a lot for this. Even if the guy is the only one selling daisies, if you understand he is selling dasies for that much and he is the only one doing so, then you already know what you gotta do if you want one, right? As far as these drops go, I commend you with you saying the rates are limited. But, with you saying that, there is an absolute understanding that the rates are limited. Not impossible. Someone will get something if it's out there. OR, may already have it. The only "problem" to some is Gaia made them limited.
Congratulations on pointing out one of the biggest flaws in the Alchemy system. It only caters to the elite ultra rich. It's not a system meant for wide spread use. Thus it's a problem for the majority of users who would like to use it and have their hard work amount to something. It's not the ultra elite rich who you're targeting your 'keep your head in the game' message to, it's the average Gaian who is financially unable to obtain ingredients. This is a hobby/entertainment site, it's ridiculous to spend a work-day's worth of work on it, not to mention severely unhealthy.
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But, the idea of saying what I said was suggestional and motivational use, if anything. Maybe what I said can motivate someone into fixing Alchemy?
But you were suggesting that people accept the current broken system and that if someone didn't like it, it was all in their head. Supposing now that your 'tip' had the opposite effect is kind of grasping for straws. Stick to the point of your message.
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Something is gonna be done about something BECAUSE Alchemy is apart of Gaia like BG, the zOMG, the Marketplace, AND the Forums.
Things don't happen on their own. It's why we have a Site Feedback. You supposed earlier that maybe it's intentional, and if you scroll up, I did confirm that it is indeed intentional. If something is going to be done about Alchemy it'll be because users insist on it.
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We get updates on a lot of these and
have gotten updates on every one.
Like updates to Towns? How about updates to BB?
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We even made suggestions and the site has taken onto them. Even I myself have made some. I wouldn't go off assuming that you haven't.
I spoke to Pan about adjusting the target audience for alchemy from the ultra elite rich to the average user. You can find it on the OP of the Official Alchemy Q&A. Alchemy is one of the areas I try to be vocal about.
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Man, just by you being here and talking about this, you are encourgaing your idea, that in turn might encourage others to do something about this as well. Just by you reading and responding, I know I have impacted something or someone. Your opinions and suggestion are coming off of my suggestions and statements.
This might be a bit of an extreme example, but if you advise someone to walk off a cliff, and I respond to that by saying they shouldn't, that doesn't really make the first message to walk of a cliff, a positive thing. But personally, I view it as it's better not to give advise than to give bad advise. As they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
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I'm not saying you can't get disturbed by this... but, you can't do what you can't do.
Especially, if it isn't there for you to do or you don't have it.
Correct, and for most people it's not for a lack of will, but a lack of resources and time.
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What else can you do, but wait? Just like you said collecting B credit won't make things come faster, complaining about it or getting mad or giving up, won't. Maybe it will, I don't know.
Showing a certain amount of discontent, but also providing suggestions, and trying to work with the dev team by giving examples of what could be fixed will manifest into something. For example, because people were voicing their complaints and providing alternatives, we now have Golden Giftbox recipes, and Enki drops, as well as new recipes in the Bifrost.
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But, faster or not, in the end, these things take a while for to do. If you're not in their shoes it's gonna seem easy. But, Gaia has to go through a process with just about everything they slap on the board. This is one of them. They have to make mistakes, [...]
Not necessarily. If they had beta-launched it and then took Gaian complaints seriously, and set to work immediately to right the system, this wouldn't have turned into as big of a deal is it is now. User feedback is very important. But right now they're acting like a child who sucked up the living room rug in the vacuum cleaner and instead of getting help to fix the problem, is insisting they meant to do that.
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Whether you see this as a problem and find no use in this sysem because it doesn't reward it's use or not, it takes time for it to get better. I already said I wasn't saying people shouldn't give up. You don't have to do this, if you don't wanna. Sit and sulk, if that helps, wait if helps, do what you can if it helps. Whatever helps YOU, you do that.
If the point of your OP is that people should do what they want... I'm pretty sure people were going to do that in the first place.
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Even the ones who do give up help themselves by not wanting to be bothered by this anymore. But, the one who haven't are gonna do what they can to help them. Even if they decide to give up later, too, or not.
I'm not sure I understand. Those who don't give up, help those who do give up, by....? Those who do give up don't give up because they're lazy, or at least most of the people don't give up because they prefer to sulk. It's a flaw in the system. I hope by the end of this read you realize it's not the users to blame, and Gaia isn't completely blameless. Also, if you do intend on replying, decide on what your position is. Supposing this and that and implying things you don't mean might come out of it is really... slippery. Pick a point. Stand by it.
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And, I never said this before, but thanks for reading.
Np. Thanks for takin' the time to read. I'm done replyin' here.
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